RE: Air War in WitE (Full Version)

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gids -> RE: Air War in WitE (6/28/2012 2:24:52 PM)

Well the airmodel is a big mess ,hope it will be better in WitW



AFV -> RE: Air War in WitE (7/2/2012 5:55:13 AM)

I find that the Soviets pretty much have unlimited aircraft. I can't kill enough of my own planes to ever run out (at least the ones that are being produced). Especially the biplane bomber the UV whatever. And since pilots are not tracked, who cares if you lose hundreds (hell, thousands) of good pilots? If I kill only a few Axis men/art/tanks its worth the bombing runs. Gamey but the AI does not complain...



Peltonx -> RE: Air War in WitE (7/2/2012 10:47:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

Still waiting for those AARS that show the Luftwaffe overwhelmed starting on T2. Or 3,4,5,6 and so on.

I know helio is incapable of doing such mundane things such as provide proof. Or do anything more than whine till he gets the money he demanded.

But he should at least try.


The Pro soviet peeps like you are alrdy giving witw a bad name.

Personal attacks just make you look childish and drive off new customers.

The air war blows, thats why 2by3 is over hauling the system completely.
Defending something that the devs themselfs are wiping clean, is like the kettle calling the frying pan black.

Their are more then a few AAR's and threads talking about how poor the air war was post 1.06 and almost every games ground rules are no spam bombing air fields and HQ's after 1.06.

Ignoring thread after thread of proof, again defending something thats being comletely over hauled and there is 10's of games with house rules limiting spam bombing and 10's of AAR's pointing out the exploit.

The exploit can still happen, the only thing stopping it is civil players. Ignoring the facts does not make them go away. 2by3 sees the fatcs and is doing something about it, you see the facts and ignore them as always.

I applaud 2by3 for admitting that the wite airwar is poor and that they ARE over hauling it. It would be nice if you did the same.

Pelton



Aurelian -> RE: Air War in WitE (7/2/2012 1:31:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

Still waiting for those AARS that show the Luftwaffe overwhelmed starting on T2. Or 3,4,5,6 and so on.

I know helio is incapable of doing such mundane things such as provide proof. Or do anything more than whine till he gets the money he demanded.

But he should at least try.


The Pro soviet peeps like you are alrdy giving witw a bad name.

Personal attacks just make you look childish and drive off new customers.



Your bias is showing. As one of the (Former?) pro Axis, as helio says, toddler-whiners, why do you fail to hold that one to the same standard? One must wonder how many new customers have been driven off by your own oft expressed rhetoric, to say nothing of helio's.

Do I really have to post your greatest hits?



Aurelian -> RE: Air War in WitE (7/2/2012 1:35:03 PM)

double post



randallw -> RE: Air War in WitE (7/2/2012 7:17:57 PM)

I also feel the air war is flawed, but the claims of the Luftwaffe being destroyed/overwhelmed in 1941 ( latest release of the game ) sound like an exaggeration.



heliodorus04 -> RE: Air War in WitE (7/2/2012 8:30:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

I also feel the air war is flawed, but the claims of the Luftwaffe being destroyed/overwhelmed in 1941 ( latest release of the game ) sound like an exaggeration.


I can only speak to 1.05. I believe my opponent Cannonfodder would confirm that in our last game, he bombed the Luftwaffe down to 200 fighters by Turn 17, at which point, in my AAR (online here, but more than 6 months old at this point), you can see the statistics (and proof). Someone reading my AAR at that point instructed me to communicate to Cannonfodder that the airfield bombing had to stop.

I can't speak to 1.06 and will not be able to in my next game, because we have a house rule of no more than 3 airfield bombings per turn.

I'm not particularly sure why that house rule would be common in the AARs that I read (for example: glvaca used this in his game with Tarhunnas, and MichaelT is using this against glvaca in their game), but it says to me that the bombing can still get out of control given the WitE model that enables mass to outperform its historical capability in the Red Air Force against Luftwaffe pilot quality and experience.

When last Cannonfodder and I spoke about it, he believed that it was a function of the week-long turns and the accumulation of fatigue per mile, which was out of scale with the week-long turn.



Walloc -> RE: Air War in WitE (7/2/2012 9:32:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: heliodorus04

I can't speak to 1.06 and will not be able to in my next game, because we have a house rule of no more than 3 airfield bombings per turn.

I'm not particularly sure why that house rule would be common in the AARs that I read (for example: glvaca used this in his game with Tarhunnas, and MichaelT is using this against glvaca in their game), but it says to me that the bombing can still get out of control given the WitE model that enables mass to outperform its historical capability in the Red Air Force against Luftwaffe pilot quality and experience.


I, maybe to no ones supprise, did some tests a few beta versions ago tho not that many and only in '41. The loss rate on attacking airfields was between 80 to 100 - 1 against russian side assuming the AFs was some how protected by german/axis figthers. Yes german figthers generally did better but results was stlll up there. Achieving very few axis losses. Now I didnt make a large test base as i didnt see any point in that. As too why ppl play with that HR ill leave up too ppl them selfs to figur out.

Kind regards,

Rasmus



Aurelian -> RE: Air War in WitE (7/2/2012 10:19:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

I also feel the air war is flawed, but the claims of the Luftwaffe being destroyed/overwhelmed in 1941 ( latest release of the game ) sound like an exaggeration.


March 44, and the LW gives better than it receives. True, I have 7 times as many a/c. But the LW is far from being overwhelmed, let alone destroyed. The loss rate is 4-1 in their favor. Even higher when I attacked airfields.



notenome -> RE: Air War in WitE (7/3/2012 10:52:42 AM)

Any time I have ever tried to bomb the Luftwaffe I have lost at least 80 bombers



Flaviusx -> RE: Air War in WitE (7/3/2012 2:30:20 PM)

Yeah, I'm not sure why so many people roll with this house rule about bombing airbases. It totally is not cost effective anymore.

That being said, it is possible for the Soviets to eat the Luftwaffe alive and far too early. Not by bombing airbases. But by fighter swarms and sweeps. Force the Luftwaffe to intercept you. The attrition vastly favors the VVS. By 1942 the Soviets can get something close to air superiority. It's a real problem with the air game, which lends itself to the leveraging of numbers.



randallw -> RE: Air War in WitE (7/5/2012 9:34:19 AM)

Anyone have screenshots illustrating the "Death Of The Luftwaffe"?



Turbo823 -> RE: Air War in WitE (7/13/2012 6:33:07 PM)

What exactly is the "no spam bombing of airfields"? I use the AI for bombing airfields. Is that spam bombing?



Walloc -> RE: Air War in WitE (7/13/2012 7:05:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Turbo823

What exactly is the "no spam bombing of airfields"? I use the AI for bombing airfields. Is that spam bombing?


It was an way usually used by the russian side in earlier version where the pay off was much different than the current version. Where by making many attacks on airfields on the same turn and over many turns u could cause losses to the effect of possibly decimating the luftwaffe. At leased causing it unhistorical loss rates. This made many play with house rules limiting this in pbems.

This has nothing to do with first turn attacks from german side on russian airfields and if u playing a curent version. Its up to 1.06.13 now and since the pay off has been significantly changed making it not really as a viable methode. As i assume ur playing the AI John, well it doesnt complain so u free to do as u like [:)]

Kind regards,

Rasmus



terry1040 -> RE: Air War in WitE (11/19/2012 12:01:49 PM)

Coming back to the original post, I also believe that the ground attack efficiency of air units in the game needs more tweaking.

With Version 1.06+, things are still not right. Attacks on ground units (interdiction, combat air support, etc) should result in more damage assets that I can see right now. I am fine with a wide variety of results, but so far I have a hard time to see any damage on tanks, assets above "a couple" per attack.

Very often, it is more like no results vs. rather many destroyed / damaged planes. This does not feel right to me.

Terry



Denniss -> RE: Air War in WitE (11/19/2012 10:31:35 PM)

We probably need an aircraft type that was in the old Second Front and WIR - the tank destroyer. This a/c type was counted into anti-tank values i.e targetting AFVs.



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