RE: Augustine summer wine (Full Version)

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witpqs -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/15/2013 5:28:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Naval HQs - You might want to keep some at your main bases (large Command HQ type), but consider using the smaller (90 Naval Support) in multiple fragments at various bases to speed up loading and unloading of supplies and troops. You don't have as much NS as the Allies, so break them down by using transport aircraft and/or small capacity xAKLs at some of the bases you are trying to develop.



AFAIK, Micheal, in DBB mods Naval Support DO NOT help unloading/loading process. For those tasks what you need are the shipping engineer squads.
Naval Support do help in repairing ships and rearming. Nothing else AFAIK.


At one point I had gained that impression too. but it was pointed out that I was mistaken. And seeing the results I do concur that Naval Support does help loading/unloading.

I think the point of the Shore Party function (regardless of what such squads are called or whatever other functions they are capable of, on the base display you see them beside Naval Support as in "Naval Support 24 + 12 Shore Part") is that squads with Shore Party ability can perform help with loading/unloading but not with any other Naval Support function (ship repair, etc.).


Yes, the Allies start to get some large specialized units that have about 200 naval support in them but nothing else. Put them anywhere especially on an atoll or any other 0 level port and you will be amazed how fast ships will unload. It is a must that one of these units goes in with any invasion force.



That happens in stock. In DBB you need Shore Party squads, which are different from Nav Support Squads

No. What I am saying is that Nav Support do indeed aid in loading and unloading.

Edit to add: Devices (squads) with Shore Party ability also help with loading and unloading, but do not have the other Nav Support abilities.



Oh really? I must have misunderstood the whole shore party function so... Thanks for the explanation mate!

Quite a while back, I had the impression that they did not and gave that advice to someone who asked. JWE saw that and corrected me. I made a point to observe some situations in-game to make sure I could see that in operation, and I definitely can. I've had some places (to remain nameless! [:D]) where loading/unloading was going at a certain pace without either type of support present. Then, after putting in a small BF with some Naval Support squads, I was able to clearly see that they do make a difference. [8D]



witpqs -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/15/2013 5:32:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

I'm foreseeing a new attempt to break my lines in Burma.

As you can see from the screenshot, the allies are creating 3 brand new vectors of advance. I stripped the whole Burma theatre with 3 Divisions in the last 6 months... i think now it's time to give up some ground somewhere...but where?



[image]local://upfiles/37890/BE406BE4162D4BD892CE1DE53D01A528.jpg[/image]

The trouble I see is that all of your units are far forward deployed. So, unless a withdrawal is well synchronized there will be lots of units cut off or at least running for it and very vulnerable.



GreyJoy -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/15/2013 5:40:23 PM)

Very true. A synchronized retreat is possible. the question is: is advisable?
How many divisions will he need to break my lines? Hard to tell... but i think my guys are pretty well dug in...some have forts level 5 in the jungle!... but i need to take a decision... that deployment had let me keep the whole Burma japanese well into 1943, so i cannot complain....



GreyJoy -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/15/2013 5:57:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

I'm foreseeing a new attempt to break my lines in Burma.

As you can see from the screenshot, the allies are creating 3 brand new vectors of advance. I stripped the whole Burma theatre with 3 Divisions in the last 6 months... i think now it's time to give up some ground somewhere...but where?



[image]local://upfiles/37890/BE406BE4162D4BD892CE1DE53D01A528.jpg[/image]

The trouble I see is that all of your units are far forward deployed. So, unless a withdrawal is well synchronized there will be lots of units cut off or at least running for it and very vulnerable.



Ok, i came up with a plan for Burma. I'll reinforce a bit the eastern sector. just enough to repulse his next push, while i'll start moving back from Akyab. I think Akyab can be abbandoned by now. i've held it for a very long time and this is already a victory. Ramree Is. Will be reinforced. The reinforced division which is actually holding Akyab will be moved back to Rangoon and then, from there, to Thailand.
The next move will be to abbandon Mitikyna and Wazrup and fall back to Katha. As long as i keep my perimeter in the jungle, i can hold. once the jungles are lost, Burma will have to be abbandoned all at once imho.



Cribtop -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/15/2013 10:12:55 PM)

Great job in Burma, indeed. Yay stacking limits!

I would be ready to contract as you suggest, but slowly. IMHO there is still some delay to be created here.



GreyJoy -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/15/2013 10:23:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Great job in Burma, indeed. Yay stacking limits!

I would be ready to contract as you suggest, but slowly. IMHO there is still some delay to be created here.



Sure sure Crib. I will retreat VERY slowly and only if i really need to.
I still think i can fight back here. My air force is strong and i still can contest the air over my troops. Near Mitikyna he's gonna have some supply problems, for sure...as do i anyway.
My priority was to secure Thailand coast. now that i have done that, i think my retreat path is safe. I wanna give him a couple more bloody noses before falling back to another defensive line.

An a side note, that GREAT man of Michealm added the missing fuel and supplies, as me and Brad have agreed.
Now i truly think i can fight untill 1945. So good.

The Mariannas are really moving along. Whatever he does, he's gonna find some hard times when he'll land here.

In NG i'm securing Hollandia area. I've moved out most of the AV (which is so precious in this mod) from Rabaul. Tojos are already defending my bases. Flak and artillery are arriving from the Mariannas. Let him come....



GreyJoy -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/15/2013 11:12:05 PM)

Ok, turn sent. I'm assembling my DEI Air Army force at Java. Sent 36 more Nells to patrol the strats between PGN and Oz. wanna know when his CVs will be coming for true.
Sent supplies to Timor and Ambon/Boela this turn. Wanna have some supplies to spare if the battle rages on.
Surface fleet is assembling at Kendari and Sosarbaja.
The 16th Division is packed and sent to Mitikyna, while the 5th Guards division is moving to Wazrup. Looking good.
Using 18 Mavis-Ls to move some SNLF units to Kusiae from the Marshalls.
Gasmata's base forces are airlifted to Hollandia. Good.
A division is bought out from Manchukoku and sent to Babeldoleap to be redeployed in Northern NG.
More ASW trained Helens are deployed to HI and to the Mariannas. Wanna create a safety corridor in the CENTPAC.


....OT: just heard the news coming from Boston....[:(] damned bastards



ny59giants -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/15/2013 11:22:44 PM)

Burma - Move your right flank back to be anchored by Lashio on the far right with the MLR going NW to end up one hex to west of Katha. That would add only three new hexes and lower the number you have to defend by half.

Glad to see you finally got the fuel and supply adjustments done my MichaelM.



GreyJoy -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/15/2013 11:27:13 PM)

This is my new perimeter for the south

[image]local://upfiles/37890/8FC60C3E26DF4AC0BB3DF604A32B1450.jpg[/image]



GreyJoy -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/15/2013 11:28:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Burma - Move your right flank back to be anchored by Lashio on the far right with the MLR going NW to end up one hex to west of Katha. That would add only three new hexes and lower the number you have to defend by half.

Glad to see you finally got the fuel and supply adjustments done my MichaelM.


Yes Micheal...but i have to be very very carefull...that movement would open a supply path to China... not exactly what i want to see. However it's a good plan! Thanks my friend



ny59giants -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/16/2013 12:10:49 AM)

I know you are following my AAR, the supply flow is not that good right now. [:D] Even if he gets the hexes, the supplies don't flow that well and the losses along the trails are high enough that not much will make it into China.



crsutton -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/16/2013 3:21:03 AM)

GJ,

I think you are way too advanced in Burma. If I was the Allied player I would be building up a large invasion force to take Pegu or Moumein or something else to the south. It depends on what he has shifted to India but if it were me, I would hit one of those places with as big a landing force as I could. The thing about late 43 is you are reaching a point where Allied tank and infantry units are becoming way too powerful. As you know from experience, once a strong Allied force gets a foothold they cannot be thrown out at this point in the war.There is only one supply route into Burma and if he blocks it, all of those troops will die of starvation. Eventually you should want to hold a line along the Moulmein, Chiang Mail line to prevent him flanking you. There just comes a point when the risk of holding Burma is not worth it. At this point in the campaign does Burma really hold much significance?



GreyJoy -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/16/2013 8:18:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

GJ,

I think you are way too advanced in Burma. If I was the Allied player I would be building up a large invasion force to take Pegu or Moumein or something else to the south. It depends on what he has shifted to India but if it were me, I would hit one of those places with as big a landing force as I could. The thing about late 43 is you are reaching a point where Allied tank and infantry units are becoming way too powerful. As you know from experience, once a strong Allied force gets a foothold they cannot be thrown out at this point in the war.There is only one supply route into Burma and if he blocks it, all of those troops will die of starvation. Eventually you should want to hold a line along the Moulmein, Chiang Mail line to prevent him flanking you. There just comes a point when the risk of holding Burma is not worth it. At this point in the campaign does Burma really hold much significance?


Hi Mate,

The importance of Burma, right now, is to completely deny one axis of advance to Brad. The easiest one BTW. So As long as i keep Burma, he'll be forced to risk his naval assets to land his units on some tiny little islands in DEI or PAC, thus risking against my Combined Fleet and LBA.
If i abbandon Burma, he'll be bombing Bankok by the end of 1943... too early!

But i do see the problem.
Moulmein is getting reinforced in these days by an additional division that i was keeping in reserve at Singa.
So we're having a Full division + a regiment + some artillery units and Naval base forces at Moulmein, behind 4+ forts; 1 full division + some 240mm Artillery pieces and a naval base force at Tavoy and a full Division + some 30cm guns at Mergui.
Pegu has 2 reinforced regiments behind 5 forts.
Bankok has an Air Army HQ and Air HQs are present at Port Blair, Rangoon and Sebang.
He would need his whole carrier fleet to land anywhere on the coast of Thailand and still he will be threatened by all sides. Without his CVs, which are now somewhere between the SOlomons and Northern Oz, he won't be able to do that.
At Singapore i have a strong SCTF reaction force, built around 3 CAs and 3 CLs, along with 2 CVLs and 1 CVE.

Chang Mai is getting built up and in few days i'll be able to buy out 2 regiments from China and start sending them there.

My goal is to hold Burma at least untill the end of the year and the slowly fall back, thus buying time for my Thailand perimeter to be built as i want it to be.




GreyJoy -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/16/2013 8:28:44 AM)

Ok, another turn is gone (14th Aug 1943) and my CVs are moving from Truk. Direction: WEST, once again. By now i've done this route at least 6 times...from DEI to CENTPAC and back again to the DEI.
Some activity rising at Darwin and some BBs spotted near Horn Island...
The enemy bombed Aitape heavily... the AF is closed and several Topsies are torched on the ground... but it's ok, i was expecting that. The transports have done their job in these days. Now it's time for them to get to Kusiae and start aiding the Mavis airlifting back some SNLF units from the Marshalls.






JocMeister -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/16/2013 8:38:04 AM)

Why include Aitape in the defense of Borneo if you are going to leave Dagua and Wewak to him? It serves no purpose. Better to use the AV at Hollandia/(cant remember the name).



obvert -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/16/2013 8:46:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Why include Aitape in the defense of Borneo if you are going to leave Dagua and Wewak to him? It serves no purpose. Better to use the AV at Hollandia/(cant remember the name).

Hollandia/Vanaimo

I agree. He can walk to Aitape from Dagua. Unless this is really a fortress, it will be a rather more easy target.



veji1 -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/16/2013 9:45:59 AM)

I think CrSutton underestimates the impact of stacking limits. With Stacking limits Greyjoy's strategy is the right one. It is manpower intensive though, but normally to break through in on hex, the allies will need a few weeks of attack and that gives enough time to retreat. As often with Burma the problem is that as soon as the jungle is abandoned, the plains are lost.

Of course the back door has to be protected, but it looks to be the case, at least as much as possible.

I really think stacking limits makes forward defense in rough terrain in Burma the most sensible strategy, and a viable one for quite some time.



GreyJoy -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/16/2013 10:40:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Why include Aitape in the defense of Borneo if you are going to leave Dagua and Wewak to him? It serves no purpose. Better to use the AV at Hollandia/(cant remember the name).


I know and you're right. Problem is that i had already placed there a regiment and the AF is built to level 4... so i think i'll leave that garrison there and use it as a blocking point. It will buys me time for Vanimo and Hollandia.




GreyJoy -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/16/2013 10:41:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

I think CrSutton underestimates the impact of stacking limits. With Stacking limits Greyjoy's strategy is the right one. It is manpower intensive though, but normally to break through in on hex, the allies will need a few weeks of attack and that gives enough time to retreat. As often with Burma the problem is that as soon as the jungle is abandoned, the plains are lost.

Of course the back door has to be protected, but it looks to be the case, at least as much as possible.

I really think stacking limits makes forward defense in rough terrain in Burma the most sensible strategy, and a viable one for quite some time.



I agree. Stacking limits completely change the nature of the land war, in China as in Burma. My defensive strategy in Burma has been completely studied and thought around the nature and the effetcs of the stacking limits.




crsutton -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/16/2013 6:00:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

I think CrSutton underestimates the impact of stacking limits. With Stacking limits Greyjoy's strategy is the right one. It is manpower intensive though, but normally to break through in on hex, the allies will need a few weeks of attack and that gives enough time to retreat. As often with Burma the problem is that as soon as the jungle is abandoned, the plains are lost.

Of course the back door has to be protected, but it looks to be the case, at least as much as possible.

I really think stacking limits makes forward defense in rough terrain in Burma the most sensible strategy, and a viable one for quite some time.



You are right, I forgot about the stacking limits and how they affect combat. But Pegu is open terrain is it not? Could the Allies put four divisions ashore there along with strong tank support? I would if it could be done....But GJ is pretty good at reading Q-Ball so his own intel is important. If the Allies are not shifting assets to India-meaning lots of American units and assault ships, then he is fairly safe for a while.



GreyJoy -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/17/2013 7:51:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

I think CrSutton underestimates the impact of stacking limits. With Stacking limits Greyjoy's strategy is the right one. It is manpower intensive though, but normally to break through in on hex, the allies will need a few weeks of attack and that gives enough time to retreat. As often with Burma the problem is that as soon as the jungle is abandoned, the plains are lost.

Of course the back door has to be protected, but it looks to be the case, at least as much as possible.

I really think stacking limits makes forward defense in rough terrain in Burma the most sensible strategy, and a viable one for quite some time.



You are right, I forgot about the stacking limits and how they affect combat. But Pegu is open terrain is it not? Could the Allies put four divisions ashore there along with strong tank support? I would if it could be done....But GJ is pretty good at reading Q-Ball so his own intel is important. If the Allies are not shifting assets to India-meaning lots of American units and assault ships, then he is fairly safe for a while.



Well, yes, probably if he lands 90,000 men at Pegu he can break my lines... but he first needs to get there. The US CVs were in the Solomons untill 6 days ago. All his landing ships are there AFAIK...most of them anyway. My early warning system is pretty extended by now. I have more than 54 Nells and 18 Emilies, along with some 8 Dinah-IIIs covering the whole Bengal Bay and with arcs from Colombo to Cocos... i will see him coming with not less than 4-5 days. What can i do in those 5 days? Well, i can mass all my LBA reserves, even moving a lot of planes from the Pacific and i can strat rail 1 division in reserve at Mandalay. Not much, i know, but what shall i do? Probably 90,000 americans aren't stoppable in open terrain even if i had 5 divisions...and i cannot have 5 divisions dug in in every possible landing site.
I wouldn't choose Pegu if i was him. Western Sumatra is much more interesting and it's on the border of my defensive line, not in the middle!




GreyJoy -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/17/2013 8:01:28 AM)

Aug 18-19, 43

Days are running fast lately, with not much happening.

The Japs have abbandoned the idea of defending Rabaul and New Britain, so the Allies are rushing in everywhere they could.
on the 17th a Motorized Bde landed at Finishtafen, which was empty. His fighters are already covering the skies over there and his troops are now marching to Lae in a piercing movement with the Australian Division arriving from Terapo.
We are doing our best to save what we can. Most of the Aviation support has been lifted out and we're now trying to save a couple of Bdes left behind.

In the last two days we managed to fought back a but, ambushing the american bombers in two different locations.
At first, 30 Georges and 15 Zeros ambushed the usual daily bombing run at Tarawa (they take off from Tabiutea), killing some 27 enemy planes (F4F3s and B-25Cs mostly), losing only a couple of Zeros.
Then, on the 19th, a group of 90 Japanese fighters (KI-45s, KI-44s and N1K1s) ambushed the 4Es over Aitape. We downed 15 Liberators and 14 P-38s, losing only 2 Nicks. Nothing to write home about, but these little battles keep my morale up and i hope that make Brad feel a bit less confident.

My KB (well, basically only 6 CVs plus 3 CVLs) are stationing in the middle of the ocean west of Rabaul. We are ready to move to the DEI but i'm not fully convinced yet. Haven't spotted the american CVs at Darwin...and i really don't know where are they...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Aitape , at 95,118

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 22
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 59
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 24

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 9
B-24D Liberator x 9
B-24D1 Liberator x 48
P-38E Lightning x 12
P-38G Lightning x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed
Ki-57-II Topsy: 3 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 1 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 3 destroyed, 10 damaged
P-38E Lightning: 1 destroyed
P-38G Lightning: 2 destroyed

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 24




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Aitape , at 95,118

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 12
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 36
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 7

Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D1 Liberator: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged





[image]local://upfiles/37890/84EE02A0ED9D4263A248F2A01CB446A7.jpg[/image]



obvert -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/17/2013 9:55:32 AM)

Is he not sweeping in front of these attacks? Against Jocke I'd be losing a good half of those 90 planes you put up from 3-5 P-47 and Corsair sweeps, and then getting maybe a few 4E in the end. he would be much better off using those P-38s as sweepers in fact. Keep making him pay if he's being lazy.



JocMeister -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/17/2013 10:26:19 AM)

Yeah, using P38s for escorts? Thats the same as giving them away! Bonkers! [X(]



GreyJoy -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/17/2013 10:45:09 AM)

He does sweep, but i tend to pick up my battles. I let him sweep and bombs for some days/weeks without interfering, then, when he gets lazy, i try to jump on him.
Over Tarawa he's being bombing for months now... at first he always swept...then, when he decided he needed his best fighters in other places, he moved them away, and left just some escorts...
Same here at Aitape. it's the only strategy that works at the moment. I cannot fight at even terms...i have to ambush him when i can in order to minimize the losses



obvert -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/17/2013 12:02:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

He does sweep, but i tend to pick up my battles. I let him sweep and bombs for some days/weeks without interfering, then, when he gets lazy, i try to jump on him.
Over Tarawa he's being bombing for months now... at first he always swept...then, when he decided he needed his best fighters in other places, he moved them away, and left just some escorts...
Same here at Aitape. it's the only strategy that works at the moment. I cannot fight at even terms...i have to ambush him when i can in order to minimize the losses


It's the only way, I agree. I still get nailed though about half of the time I ambush. Jocke doesn't get lazy often! [;)]

It's an interesting problem for the Allies. Do you diversify attacks and become vulnerable? Do you concentrate and become predictable? As the Japanese side we have to have counters for both and be on our toes watching all of the time. Doing turns quickly while traveling lately I certainly realized how much attention is needed for some of these details and predictions.



GreyJoy -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/17/2013 5:55:25 PM)

21.08.1943

Brad is really running in SOPAC.... a full division landed at Arawe today, while more troops are landing east of Rabaul... i spotted several more APAs...and BBs in support...but decided not to rush in with my CVs. I need to cover my retreat now and estabilish a new perimeter. No time for risking a carrierClash in enemy's waters.

In Burma things are heating up. Thre columns with more than 150,000 enemies are pushing towards the front. We're shifting our units hoping to hold... if the lines breaks... Burma is lost

In NG we're assembling a very strong defensive perimeter.

Vanimo has 700 AVs, behind 5 forts (jungle), composed around the 1st Guards Div, the 18th Garrison Bde and 1 SNLF unit. An Artillery 150mm Regiment is in place, along with 2 AA units and several support units.
Hollandia has 350 AVs, behind 4 forts (jungle). Will raise the AV up to 600 in the next days. The 17th Army HQ has been rescued from Torokina and is now resting at Hollandia prepping.
Sarmi will soon have a full division defending it.
Biak is defended by the 56th Div and by components of different Manchurian units. Tanks, AA, Arty. All are in place.
Nomeonfor is getting the 1st Division, plus several supporting units.
...and so on.
Every spot on the coast is heavily guarded.



GreyJoy -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/17/2013 5:57:48 PM)

Can't do more than that at the moment



GreyJoy -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/17/2013 6:15:55 PM)

My hope is to be able to use the time for him needed to conquer the whole Bismark sea to create a fortress in northern NG, while keeping on building the Mariannas inner perimeter. I pretty curious to see what he can do against this kind of bases. Here he doesn't have many choices...he cannot simply bypass them all...so he will have to focus on some of them...and i wanna be ready when the moment will arrive.
Also a landing here on the upper eastern coast of NG will leave his right flank open....let's see.




crsutton -> RE: Augustine summer wine (4/17/2013 11:38:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Yeah, using P38s for escorts? Thats the same as giving them away! Bonkers! [X(]



Never use them for escort. Much better to put them on LRCAP over the target hex if you can. That is of course, only if you are playing one day turns not two.



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