RE: The quiet American (Full Version)

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ny59giants -> RE: The quiet American (5/19/2013 11:43:32 PM)

When you hit the "K" button to display the regional weather, it shows what for the "Clash of Titans" general area??



GreyJoy -> RE: The quiet American (5/20/2013 8:04:12 AM)

Hi Micheal,


To answer your question (but also Jeff's previous one), yes, I always check the regional weather forecast and also the local hex weather one.

In the last two situations (Colombo raid and the BB ambush of the last week), regional and local weather forecasts were actually pretty decent (partly cloud and light rain, clear sky and clear sky)... That's why I think I got particularly unlucky!

For tomorrow the regional weather is forecasted as partly cloud, with Molu being extreme overcast and with some hexes around Molu with severe storms. Overall, the weather shouldn't be that bad, but Mr.Murphy can always kick in, as we all know.

My KB is divided into 3 CVTFs, each of nearly 350/400 planes. Abe, Nagumo and Yamaghuchi in command, with Tanaka leading the SAG TF screening force.
The CAP should be provided by 300 crack zeros, the rest are all in full attack mode. It's pretty useless, imho, to have more than 300 planes on CAP, being the maximum detection provided by Japanese radars of 38 minutes... even 1000 zeros won't stop an allied raid composed of 100 Hellcats and 2/300 bombers. There's nothing more I can do by now if not just pray that the Gods of weather would smile upon me and screws Brad's attacking capabilities



koniu -> RE: The quiet American (5/20/2013 9:08:14 AM)

Carrier clash
That's what tiggers like best.[sm=00000622.gif]



JocMeister -> RE: The quiet American (5/20/2013 10:40:36 AM)

This will certainly be interesting to watch! [sm=00000613.gif]



GreyJoy -> RE: The quiet American (5/20/2013 11:03:33 AM)

Well guys, in November 1943 I don't expect to get out of a carrier clash without some broken ribs. By now the allies have superiority in terms of CVs and also in terms of quality.
I've only sunk 1 CV so far, so he should have 5 original ones + at least 3 Essex class, along with 2 CVLs and many CVEs...
I have to rely on luck if I wanna win this battle... luck in terms of range, luck in terms of weather. I'm pretty sure Brad will pack Molu with LBA to provide some extra CAP over his CVs and amphib TFs... I have some solutions to that but would be bloody... Molu has not less than 5 or six PT-TFs... The use of PTs really changes the course of the naval war..when they upgrade with radars they become deadly... But hey, I have to live with it.
This is my line in the sand... this is where we fight.

I've done my very best to keep my CVs at their best. All upgrades have been taken. All airgroups have best leaders, best planes, best pilots. The KB is at its zenith. I'm not building any more CV, so this is what I have and what will have till the end of the war.

Will my CVs see the arrival of the SAM? Will we simply get creamed by the Helldivers' bombs?

Here you will also be able to see what the allied late war flak can do... I did some tests... the modern BBs are deadly...



obvert -> RE: The quiet American (5/20/2013 11:12:13 AM)

Wow. This could be big.

It may be after you've given orders, but one reason to keep a bigger CAP is for the post strike battle where I find the CAP destroys a bunch more planes. This can severely limit the next strike, as well as help your own if a lot of Hellcats go down, but that assumes some of the KB is still in good shape. Maybe 300 is fine, but I've not had a CV battle in late 43-44, so who knows?

We all set things slightly differently. It'll be interesting to see how this works.

[sm=00000613.gif]



GreyJoy -> RE: The quiet American (5/20/2013 11:25:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Wow. This could be big.

It may be after you've given orders, but one reason to keep a bigger CAP is for the post strike battle where I find the CAP destroys a bunch more planes. This can severely limit the next strike, as well as help your own if a lot of Hellcats go down, but that assumes some of the KB is still in good shape. Maybe 300 is fine, but I've not had a CV battle in late 43-44, so who knows?

We all set things slightly differently. It'll be interesting to see how this works.

[sm=00000613.gif]



300 zeros on CAP is a lot Erik! it's 100 fighters above the 200 firing passes rule, so above 200 it's basically useless. I've already been through this...and saw my 1000 fighters on CAP (in late 1944) rendered absolutely useless after the 200 firing passes... so it's more like a phsycological feature to have a HUGE cap rather than a serious defensive strategy. What it's worth is the power of your striking package. If you get a good strike well escorted you're gonna do some heavy damage. And to do that you need a lot of escort... that's why I have devoted 220 zeros only for escort duties... CVLs and CVEs will just provide escort with their zeros group...while a sentai of 20 Kates with CRACK ASW pilots will give ASW interdiction.

Then, it's all about the dice... luck has a GREAT role in these battles... so, a part from setting everything in the right way, there's nothing much you can do except praying[:)]



obvert -> RE: The quiet American (5/20/2013 11:32:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Wow. This could be big.

It may be after you've given orders, but one reason to keep a bigger CAP is for the post strike battle where I find the CAP destroys a bunch more planes. This can severely limit the next strike, as well as help your own if a lot of Hellcats go down, but that assumes some of the KB is still in good shape. Maybe 300 is fine, but I've not had a CV battle in late 43-44, so who knows?

We all set things slightly differently. It'll be interesting to see how this works.

[sm=00000613.gif]



300 zeros on CAP is a lot Erik! it's 100 fighters above the 200 firing passes rule, so above 200 it's basically useless. I've already been through this...and saw my 1000 fighters on CAP (in late 1944) rendered absolutely useless after the 200 firing passes... so it's more like a phsycological feature to have a HUGE cap rather than a serious defensive strategy. What it's worth is the power of your striking package. If you get a good strike well escorted you're gonna do some heavy damage. And to do that you need a lot of escort... that's why I have devoted 220 zeros only for escort duties... CVLs and CVEs will just provide escort with their zeros group...while a sentai of 20 Kates with CRACK ASW pilots will give ASW interdiction.

Then, it's all about the dice... luck has a GREAT role in these battles... so, a part from setting everything in the right way, there's nothing much you can do except praying[:)]


Yes! Been through that part!

Make your sacrifices to the weather gods now.

Your settings make sense, I've just never tried them, so I'm curious. I've still always used each group split to 30-50% CAP and escort with layering and had usually one or two dedicated CAP at 0 hex. I got burned on that recently against Torsten as my CVs reacted (against orders) and ended up in 3 different hexes, having much less mutually supporting CAP than they should have by design.

So as you say, the luck is perhaps the biggest part, and you have to ask yourself right now, "do you feel lucky?" [:D]



GreyJoy -> RE: The quiet American (5/20/2013 11:35:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

So as you say, the luck is perhaps the biggest part, and you have to ask yourself right now, "do you feel lucky?" [:D]


"...Punk?" [:D]




koniu -> RE: The quiet American (5/20/2013 11:51:30 AM)

Dirty Harry would probably go to battle without any CAP.
Pure offensive POWER.[sm=00000036.gif]



JocMeister -> RE: The quiet American (5/20/2013 1:12:04 PM)

GJ, Are you saying that any CAP larger than 200 planes is useless? If so why the HECK hasnīt that been fixed? [X(]



BBfanboy -> RE: The quiet American (5/20/2013 3:37:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

GJ, Are you saying that any CAP larger than 200 planes is useless? If so why the HECK hasnīt that been fixed? [X(]


I'm not sure it should be fixed. Think about anyone trying to coordinate 200 aircraft in a small patch of sky [say 5 nm] so that they all get in position to fire. Over the time the incoming aircraft transit the 20 nm from hex edge to centre there would be only four blocks of 5 miles, or 50 fighters per block - that's about as many as could engage. And from what I read of RL air combat, it moves on so quickly that you rarely get the chance to re-engage the enemy after the first pass/dogfight. Not saying you couldn't shoot at two or three bombers during your first pass, but when you need to go around to get back in position you will be low on fuel and ammo.

BTW, having over 200 a/c on cap is the only way to ensure 200 get to engage. Some will always be out of position, elsewhere in the hex.



GreyJoy -> RE: The quiet American (5/20/2013 3:54:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

GJ, Are you saying that any CAP larger than 200 planes is useless? If so why the HECK hasnīt that been fixed? [X(]


Well, it's more complex than that. It's 200 firing passes per every "flight". A "flight" is composed by a number of fighters between 1 and 8.
However, leaving the pure math, empiric reality says that it is not worth having more than 300, maybe 350, fighters on CAP. After a certain number of passages, the bombers will simply get thorugh.

Now I think that the problem has been VERY MITIGATED with the more recent betas. Now the coordination needed to achieve a 200 fighters+400 bomber single strike is, if not impossible, VERY VERY RARE.

But basically yes, there a fixed number of possible "AIR KILLS" in a single combat, no matter how many planes are on CAP.



JocMeister -> RE: The quiet American (5/20/2013 4:19:54 PM)

GJ, Thanks for the explanation! Very strange that this hasnīt been looked at. I know you are an unfortunate expert on the subject after your game with rader. I thought this was fixed after that. I understand that the removal of most coordination in BETA help mitigate this in LBA vs. CV but CV vs CV is still the same right?

Easy to abuse if one can figure it out. Doesnīt feel right that beyond a certain number its guaranteed breakthrough. Should always be a chance/risk and an element of uncertainty. As soon as there is a fixed threshold or number involved people will soon start exploiting it.



obvert -> RE: The quiet American (5/20/2013 8:29:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

GJ, Thanks for the explanation! Very strange that this hasnīt been looked at. I know you are an unfortunate expert on the subject after your game with rader. I thought this was fixed after that. I understand that the removal of most coordination in BETA help mitigate this in LBA vs. CV but CV vs CV is still the same right?

Easy to abuse if one can figure it out. Doesnīt feel right that beyond a certain number its guaranteed breakthrough. Should always be a chance/risk and an element of uncertainty. As soon as there is a fixed threshold or number involved people will soon start exploiting it.


If I remember rightly there was a lot of discussion in GJ's game with rader about this, and changes to help deal with large strikes would then skew smaller strikes. Imagine if you have more passes but smaller strikes, then nothing gets through and you have the old problem of the untouchable CAP from WITP vanilla.

The beta should do most of what we need to make it playable and reasonable.



GreyJoy -> The battle that never was (5/22/2013 1:37:09 PM)

14-15 Nov 1943

So there wasn't any battle. We both stayed in a cover position. I didn't send south my KB, holding the brakes due to the huge number of subs screening the allied operations. Brad didn't send north his CVs, covering his ops from a safe position 2 hexes north of Bathrust Island.

In the meantime the allies landed safely at Selroe (?!?!) with 2 full divisions (a marine div and the 41st Division), while the I US Corp (2 Marine Divisions and the 8th NZ Bde, along with 2 tank regiments) attacked at Hollandia, supported by a huge bombing both by sea and by air, achieving a 1-1 immediately and bringing the forts down to 2...[:(]... probably the next attack will be over...:-( Supplies aren't that bad despite the constant bombings (100 Emilies are doing a great job there), but the enemy has simply too much firepower to be held back.

The only bright news of the day is the sinking of an enemy TF full of support troops (probably a base force) that was moving north of the coast of Western NG...north of Mereuake...

For the rest, a terrible moment for Japan.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Nov 15, 43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Merauke at 87,120, Range 10,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Yugumo
DD Makigumo
DD Takanami
DD Hatsushima

Allied Ships
SC-522, Shell hits 17, heavy fires, heavy damage
SC-631, Shell hits 5, and is sunk
xAP Nairana, Shell hits 16, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Matua, Shell hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
xAP Van den Bosch, Shell hits 17, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAP Van der Lijn, Shell hits 3, heavy fires
xAK West Ivis, Shell hits 9, heavy fires
xAK Sawokla, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Fairland, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Unicoi, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
2376 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 106 destroyed, 41 disabled
Engineers: 128 destroyed, 65 disabled
Vehicles lost 72 (62 destroyed, 10 disabled)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Obi at 78,106

Japanese Ships
CV Shokaku
BB Kirishima
CA Tone
CS Nisshin
DD Hikokaze
DD Katsutade
DD Susuzuki
DD Urazuki
DD Myojinkaze
DD Nagatakaze
DD Takatakaze

Allied Ships
SS Bluefish, hits 5

SS Bluefish launches 6 torpedoes at CV Shokaku

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pre-Invasion action off Selaroe (78,118)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

75 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
APD Lawrence
APD King
APD Herbert
APD Waters
APD Talbot
APD Gregory
APD Manley
APD Ward
AMC Chitral

Allied ground losses:
22 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Hollandia (93,116)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 22266 troops, 407 guns, 459 vehicles, Assault Value = 1093

Defending force 29931 troops, 267 guns, 97 vehicles, Assault Value = 732

Allied adjusted assault: 1133

Japanese adjusted defense: 1103

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 3)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
889 casualties reported
Squads: 12 destroyed, 49 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 28 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 10 disabled
Guns lost 32 (2 destroyed, 30 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
450 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 115 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 23 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 17 (1 destroyed, 16 disabled)

Assaulting units:
762nd Tank Battalion
2nd Marine Division
3rd Marine Division
2/6th Armoured Regiment
8th NZ Bde /1
I US Corps

Defending units:
1st South Seas Gsn
18th Garrison Unit
7th Ind Engineer Regiment
51st Division
Maizuru 4th SNLF
47th Cavalry Regiment
1st Raiding Rgt /3
85th JAAF AF Bn
58th JNAF AF Unit
51st JNAF AF Unit
36th JNAF AF Unit
51st Air Div /1
17th Army
31st Air Defense AA Battalion
34th JNAF AF Unit
15th Base Force
26th JNAF AF Unit /1
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
12th Air Defense AA Regiment
45th JNAF AF Unit /2


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Selaroe (78,118)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 3705 troops, 23 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 232

Defending force 25650 troops, 414 guns, 249 vehicles, Assault Value = 765

Japanese ground losses:
27 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
69th/B Division
69th/C Division
2nd Raiding Rgt /4
3rd Construction Battalion

Defending units:
40th Infantry Division
4th Marine Division
2/532nd Boat&Shore Engineer Battalion





veji1 -> RE: The battle that never was (5/22/2013 1:47:50 PM)

Ouch.. the firepower difference is starting to show... Sucks...



GreyJoy -> RE: The battle that never was (5/22/2013 1:52:42 PM)

Yes... Those marines are really badass!
However i took the wrong decision not to send my KB south when i could... Lots of APAs at Selroe.... Maybe tomorrow...if i find the courage to do so....



GreyJoy -> RE: The battle that never was (5/22/2013 3:46:38 PM)

Forgot to add that the allies, in the last week, managed to destroy a good half of the oil fields at Magwe. I have already abandoned the idea to really defend them. I will try to fight, obviously, but at this point of the war I consider more important to keep Burma alive and to keep the allies as far away as possible from the DEI.

So far Burma is still holding well with its new perimeter... Lashio is a bit threatened but I have enough reserves to send there if the threat becomes an alert

What else? oh yes, did I ever told you how much I love my float planes? I have 48 Emily-L operating for Hollandia and 50 Emilies doing the job at Selroe, keeping them alive as long as possible. 100 Helen-KIA are keeping Sarmi supplied, along with a fleet of 120 Barges, despite the blockade imposed by the allied PTs which simply station there every day and night.... hate the allies PTs...possibly more than the Fletchers



GreyJoy -> RE: The battle that never was (5/22/2013 5:01:57 PM)

Nov 16, 43


While the enemy keeps on unloading at Selroe and Hollandia (Selroe will fall pretty fast), the Japanese obtained a glorious victory in Burma.
We ambushed the enemy over Magwe (we picked the right moment this time) and downed exactly 300 enemy's planes, losing 75 of mines [8D][8D][8D].
Among them 34 T-Bolts...not bad!

Hollandia could breath this turn...while Selroe got pounded by several BB TFs....

His subs are infesting the waters around the KB...which keeps on moving...burning precious fuel...



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Selaroe at 78,118

Allied Ships
BB Massachusetts
BB Washington
DD Daly
DD Claxton
DD Chevalier
DD Bullard

Japanese ground losses:
87 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Port hits 10
Port supply hits 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Selaroe at 78,118

Allied Ships
BB Mississippi
BB Idaho
DD Hughes
DD McCook
DD Waller
DD Stanly

Japanese ground losses:
139 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Port hits 2


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Selaroe at 78,118

Allied Ships
BB Alabama
BB South Dakota
DD Brownson
DD Beale
DD Bache
DD Aulick

Japanese ground losses:
129 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 3 disabled

Port hits 6


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Magwe , at 57,47

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 17
N1K2-J George x 71
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 173
Ki-84a Frank x 216

Allied aircraft
B-25D Mitchell x 12
Blenheim VD x 12
Hurricane IIc Trop x 32
Wellington B.X x 15
A-36 Mustang x 23
B-24J Liberator x 11
B-25C Mitchell x 14
B-25G Mitchell x 16
P-38H Lightning x 30
P-40N5 Warhawk x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-25D Mitchell: 4 destroyed, 1 damaged
Blenheim VD: 7 destroyed
Hurricane IIc Trop: 7 destroyed
Wellington B.X: 8 destroyed, 2 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged
B-25C Mitchell: 3 destroyed, 1 damaged
B-25C Mitchell: 1 destroyed by flak
B-25G Mitchell: 9 destroyed, 1 damaged
P-38H Lightning: 6 destroyed
P-40N5 Warhawk: 11 destroyed

Oil hits 5

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Magwe , at 57,47

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 32 NM, estimated altitude 32,800 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 9
N1K2-J George x 61
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 138
Ki-84a Frank x 175

Allied aircraft
P-38H Lightning x 18
F4U-1 Corsair x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 6 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 5 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38H Lightning: 4 destroyed
F4U-1 Corsair: 4 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Magwe , at 57,47

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 6
N1K2-J George x 54
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 115
Ki-84a Frank x 155

Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 16
Hurricane IIc Trop x 15
Liberator II x 12
Liberator B.III x 13
A-36 Mustang x 20
B-26B Marauder x 16
P-38H Lightning x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim IV: 9 destroyed, 1 damaged
Hurricane IIc Trop: 6 destroyed
Liberator II: 1 destroyed, 10 damaged
Liberator B.III: 7 destroyed, 3 damaged
Liberator B.III: 1 destroyed by flak
A-36 Mustang: 9 destroyed
B-26B Marauder: 9 destroyed



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Magwe , at 57,47

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 50 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 4
N1K2-J George x 49
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 97
Ki-84a Frank x 119

Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 11
P-38H Lightning x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D1 Liberator: 3 destroyed, 3 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 2 destroyed by flak
P-38H Lightning: 1 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Magwe , at 57,47

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 59 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 2
N1K2-J George x 45
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 84
Ki-84a Frank x 102

Allied aircraft
P-38H Lightning x 1
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 8 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Magwe , at 57,47

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 75 NM, estimated altitude 46,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 1
N1K2-J George x 30
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 69
Ki-84a Frank x 77

Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 51

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 16 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 9 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 6 destroyed






[image]local://upfiles/37890/20827D02A76244ED973CD772302E49A2.jpg[/image]



veji1 -> RE: The battle that never was (5/22/2013 5:06:55 PM)

God the number of planes on your side is staggering... more than 450 fighters in that battle is insane.



Chickenboy -> RE: The battle that never was (5/22/2013 5:10:34 PM)

Bleed 'im, mate!  Bleed 'im!  [&o]



GreyJoy -> RE: The battle that never was (5/22/2013 5:33:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

God the number of planes on your side is staggering... more than 450 fighters in that battle is insane.


It's a combination: 450 fighters on 100%LRCAP from Mandalay and 200 fighters on 100%CAP based at Magwe.

As they say...it's a numbers game[:D]



GreyJoy -> RE: The battle that never was (5/22/2013 5:52:38 PM)

The butcher's bill of the Day.



[image]local://upfiles/37890/F9D322ABE54B494283C1D35BB0EB26FA.jpg[/image]



GreyJoy -> RE: The battle that never was (5/22/2013 5:58:06 PM)

Soon in Burma the "r" version of the Frank should appear en masse. Then we'll be out of new models until the Frank "R" will arrive (probably late October 1944). The plan is to keep on using the Tojos as a critical mass, filling them with mildly experienced pilots, while using the KI-84 only for the TOP GUNS.
At the same time I can guarantee you that the J2M3 is a very good plane in experienced hands. It's superior climb rate makes it a perfect all around fighter.



JocMeister -> RE: The battle that never was (5/22/2013 7:29:09 PM)

Sweeps: How not to do them! [:D]

If Q-ball continues like this he might never break you! Well done! [:)]



Chickenboy -> RE: The battle that never was (5/22/2013 7:36:28 PM)

Pretty impressive that you're hanging at close to a 1:1 A2A loss ratio.  When all of the 4EBs are factored in VP wise, you'd probably be slightly ahead in the A2A VP exchange.  [&o]

Interesting that your OPS losses are *so* much greater than the Allies.  Ideas why?



JocMeister -> RE: The battle that never was (5/22/2013 7:49:27 PM)

Higher OP losses is due to lower durability of Japanese AC? Thats what I always thought at least!



GreyJoy -> RE: The battle that never was (5/23/2013 12:22:35 AM)

Nov 18, 19 1943

On the 18th we managed to ambush the enemy's bombers over Hollandia, downing 50 of them and losing 25 of mine own. Not bad, indeed.

However nothing seems to stop the allied steamroller now.
For 3 days in a row HUNDREDS of planes bombed the two regiments of the 69th Divisions i have at Selroe. Aided by a daily bombing run by several USN BBs. Simply nothing i could do to stop this developement. The allies even landed another Artillery regiment...
For two days the allied attacked. On the 18th we held them on a 1-1...but on the 19 we broke...11-1 and the island was captured...now the perimeter is really broken, with 2 islands strongly held by the americans right in the middle of my DEI southern front... Impossible to do anything more than that... simply impossible....

At Hollandia the air ambush paid back... less distruption than usual and our guys held the american assault...a solid 1-2 and forts weren't touched! GOOD! The more i slow him down, the harder it will be for him to keep on moving north!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Hollandia at 93,116

Allied Ships
CA Suffolk
CA Wichita
CA Vincennes
DD Ellet
DD Baldwin
DD Meade
DD Lansdowne
DD Cony

Japanese ground losses:
537 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 28 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Vehicles lost 9 (1 destroyed, 8 disabled)

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 17
Port hits 10
Port supply hits 1



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Selaroe at 78,118

Allied Ships
BB Alabama
BB South Dakota
DD Brownson
DD Beale
DD Bache
DD Aulick

Japanese ground losses:
50 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 69th/C Division, at 78,118 (Selaroe)

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
Beaufort VIII x 30
PV-1 Ventura x 9
Kittyhawk III x 11
Mitchell II x 3
Vengeance I x 14
B-17E Fortress x 3
B-24D Liberator x 3
B-24D1 Liberator x 47
B-24J Liberator x 19
B-25C Mitchell x 9
B-25D1 Mitchell x 12
P-40K Warhawk x 5
F4U-1 Corsair x 3
F6F-3 Hellcat x 1

Allied aircraft losses
B-25D1 Mitchell: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
39 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 69th/B Division, at 78,118 (Selaroe)

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter X x 8
Beaufort VIII x 15
Mitchell II x 9
B-17E Fortress x 6
B-24D1 Liberator x 13
B-24J Liberator x 12
B-25D1 Mitchell x 10
P-38H Lightning x 3
P-40K Warhawk x 20

Allied aircraft losses
Mitchell II: 1 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 69th/B Division, at 78,118 (Selaroe)

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 14 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Allied aircraft
Vengeance I x 10
B-25D1 Mitchell x 6
P-38F Lightning x 5

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 69th/B Division, at 78,118 (Selaroe)

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 6
B-25D1 Mitchell x 12

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged
B-25D1 Mitchell: 1 damaged



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 69th/B Division, at 78,118 (Selaroe)

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 6
B-24J Liberator x 12


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 69th/B Division, at 78,118 (Selaroe)

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 6
B-25D1 Mitchell x 9

No Allied losses



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Selaroe (78,118)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 26203 troops, 453 guns, 282 vehicles, Assault Value = 727

Defending force 6945 troops, 46 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 133

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 1

Allied adjusted assault: 1137

Japanese adjusted defense: 101

Allied assault odds: 11 to 1 (fort level 1)

Allied forces CAPTURE Selaroe !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1463 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 67 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 19 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 16 (9 destroyed, 7 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
364 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 55 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Assaulting units:
40th Infantry Division
4th Marine Division
I Australian Corps
2/532nd Boat&Shore Engineer Battalion
134th Field Artillery Battalion
2/1st Med Regiment

Defending units:
69th/B Division
69th/C Division
2nd Raiding Rgt /4
3rd Construction Battalion


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Hollandia (93,116)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 13301 troops, 211 guns, 352 vehicles, Assault Value = 1009

Defending force 28812 troops, 265 guns, 96 vehicles, Assault Value = 672

Allied adjusted assault: 762

Japanese adjusted defense: 2005

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 2)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
595 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 51 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 9 disabled
Guns lost 9 (2 destroyed, 7 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
414 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 50 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 35 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Vehicles lost 80 (5 destroyed, 75 disabled)

Assaulting units:
3rd Marine Division
762nd Tank Battalion
2nd Marine Division
2/6th Armoured Regiment
8th NZ Brigade
I US Corps

Defending units:
51st Division
Maizuru 4th SNLF
7th Ind Engineer Regiment
18th Garrison Unit
47th Cavalry Regiment
1st Raiding Rgt /3
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
31st Air Defense AA Battalion
26th JNAF AF Unit /1
34th JNAF AF Unit
51st JNAF AF Unit
15th Base Force
17th Army
51st Air Div /1
85th JAAF AF Bn
58th JNAF AF Unit
1st South Seas Gsn
12th Air Defense AA Regiment
36th JNAF AF Unit
45th JNAF AF Unit /2






GreyJoy -> RE: The battle that never was (5/23/2013 12:26:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Higher OP losses is due to lower durability of Japanese AC? Thats what I always thought at least!



Yes, Joc is right IMHO. Lower dur means that a damaged plane is, 50% of the times, a written off plane. That is pretty much why our OP losses are much much greater than his.
However the secret to keep a decent A2A kill ratio is to pick your battles wisely... better not to defend at all if you cannot defend in the right way. Let him bomb your bases and then, all of a sudden, when he relaxes a bit...HIT HARD and bring the hammer, always.

This will also force him to always use sweeps+escort+LRCAP...which means, given the limited number of the fighter units, that he will have to force himself to wisely select where to attack...and that will, over time, make narrower the air space to defend



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