When is an Allied fighter unit carrier capable? (Full Version)

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garywjamison -> When is an Allied fighter unit carrier capable? (7/2/2012 8:01:52 PM)

Dear Fellow Gamers:

How can I tell when any Allied fighter or light bomber unit is capable of training on and operating from USA or British aircraft carriers?

Gary Jamison



Halsey -> RE: When is an Allied fighter unit carrier capable? (7/2/2012 8:38:17 PM)

.....ooops wrong reply.[;)]



jcjordan -> RE: When is an Allied fighter unit carrier capable? (7/3/2012 12:09:50 AM)

If you look at each plane, it'll say if it's carrier capable or not in the upper left hand of the plane data screen. If it's not cv capable, it'll take up much more space in the cv's a/c capacity (you'll probably see red on a/c overstack) so planes may not operate due to overstack even though the actual # of a/c is below what the cv can hold. Most USN/USMC are cv capable but a couple aren't (some versions of the corsairs).  For an air unit to become carrier trained, other than if it's already on a cv, from what I've learned it must be on a cv for approx 3mos before it becomes cv trained & thus lower op losses. So carrier capable is by plane type & carrier trained is in the training of the pilots of the individual unit.



Alfred -> RE: When is an Allied fighter unit carrier capable? (7/3/2012 3:49:33 AM)

This issue has come up several times in the last couple of weeks. IMHO the answers given have not been as exact as they could be.

1. Pilots are never certified for carrier operations.

2. Only aircraft which are certified for carrier operations are able to operate off carriers. If in the aircraft screen (accessable from various routes eg plane database, aircraft pools, squadron screen etc) it does not say "carrier capable", then that aircraft model is not certified for carrier operations.

3. Carrier certified aircraft models are produced by only two Allied nationalities, US Navy and British.

4. To actually conduct carrier air operations you need to have embarked either a "carrier capable" or a "carrier trained" squadron. The squadron screen discloses whether either term applies to that particular squadron. The first term means the unit itself is fully certified for carrier flight operations, the later term means that the squadron can operate off carriers but will incurr additional operational losses etc because it is not yet fully certified. Neither term directly refers to the pilots or the aircraft models.

5. It is possible to advance a squadron from "carrier trained" to "carrier capable". It requires the "carrier trained" squadron spending about 3 months on a carrier. It is not possible to convert a non "carrier trained" squadron into one.


Bottom line is do not confuse aircraft models with squadrons. They are different but both are required. You need a "carrier capable/trained" squadron which is equipped with a carrier capable aircraft model in order to operate off carriers.

Alfred



Hooper82 -> RE: When is an Allied fighter unit carrier capable? (7/3/2012 3:58:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred
5. It is possible to advance a squadron from "carrier trained" to "carrier capable". It requires the "carrier trained" squadron spending about 3 months on a carrier. It is not possible to convert a non "carrier trained" squadron into one.


Is this the same for IJN Squadrons?



Alfred -> RE: When is an Allied fighter unit carrier capable? (7/3/2012 4:00:28 AM)

Same code applies to both sides.

Alfred



Mac Linehan -> RE: When is an Allied fighter unit carrier capable? (7/3/2012 4:34:50 AM)

Alfred -

Thank You for the facts - and clarification. I had the "carrier trained" and "carrier capable" concepts backwards... <sigh>.

Mac



Lipty -> RE: When is an Allied fighter unit carrier capable? (7/3/2012 6:13:22 AM)

quote:

If you leave a VMF/VMB on a CV for 90 days it becomes CV capable

from FAQ/info for newbs by davbaker (<--- read it )

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2260137&mpage=1&key=leader

My understanding that was you can never make a group carrier trained, it is only defined by the editor.
You can create carrier capable groups as long as the plane is a carrier capable type. They operate from carriers but with the higher losses mentioned above. (so use on strike missions or escort, not cap and routine search etc... to minimize op losses)

Again, 3 posts so please correct me.



DivePac88 -> RE: When is an Allied fighter unit carrier capable? (7/3/2012 9:55:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lipty

My understanding that was you can never make a group carrier trained, it is only defined by the editor.



No you are mistaken, as in my experience:

if you train or operate a carrier capable unit on a carrier for approx three months, it becomes carrier trained.



Sardaukar -> RE: When is an Allied fighter unit carrier capable? (7/3/2012 4:06:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

5. It is possible to advance a squadron from "carrier trained" to "carrier capable". It requires the "carrier trained" squadron spending about 3 months on a carrier. It is not possible to convert a non "carrier trained" squadron into one.

Alfred


Alfred, it's just opposite (though minor thing).

Unit can be "carrier capable" and take more Ops losses, and then in time, it becomes "carrier trained". Latter means it is fully trained & experienced with CV operations.

Ha! Never thought I'd catch Alfred with an error. [:D]

7.0.1.1.1 in manual:

Carrier Trained aircraft are noted as such on their Air Unit Information Screen. They function
normally on Carriers, and may take off and land on a Carrier and perform non-transfer Missions
from it.

Certain other units will be listed as Carrier Capable on their Air Unit Information Screen. These
planes may be fully functional on Aircraft Carriers, but have a higher chance of suffering
Operational Losses during take-offs and landings. Just because an aircraft is Carrier Capable
(i.e. it is built for carrier operations, having a tail hook and other necessary equipment) does not
mean the pilot flying it is trained to land and take off from one.



Mundy -> RE: When is an Allied fighter unit carrier capable? (7/3/2012 4:26:59 PM)

I had my hopes up for a minute...

Ed-



Alfred -> RE: When is an Allied fighter unit carrier capable? (7/3/2012 5:09:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

5. It is possible to advance a squadron from "carrier trained" to "carrier capable". It requires the "carrier trained" squadron spending about 3 months on a carrier. It is not possible to convert a non "carrier trained" squadron into one.

Alfred


Alfred, it's just opposite (though minor thing).

Unit can be "carrier capable" and take more Ops losses, and then in time, it becomes "carrier trained". Latter means it is fully trained & experienced with CV operations.

Ha! Never thought I'd catch Alfred with an error. [:D]

7.0.1.1.1 in manual:

Carrier Trained aircraft are noted as such on their Air Unit Information Screen. They function
normally on Carriers, and may take off and land on a Carrier and perform non-transfer Missions
from it.

Certain other units will be listed as Carrier Capable on their Air Unit Information Screen. These
planes may be fully functional on Aircraft Carriers, but have a higher chance of suffering
Operational Losses during take-offs and landings. Just because an aircraft is Carrier Capable
(i.e. it is built for carrier operations, having a tail hook and other necessary equipment) does not
mean the pilot flying it is trained to land and take off from one.


Quite correct. I had them in reverse order. Good catch. Shows what happens if one doesn't always double check before posting.

Or I could just say I was testing the forum. Yea, that's it.[:)]

The fundamental point remains that the two key parameters are squadron and plane suitability. Both are separate issues and fundamentally independent of each other.

In order to minimise confusion it might be worthwhile for michaelm in any new patch to remove the term "carrier capable" from the aircraft model screen and replace it with a different term, such as "tail hook equipped".

Alfred



Mundy -> RE: When is an Allied fighter unit carrier capable? (7/3/2012 6:15:36 PM)

One thing to note, is that if you only have a "Carrier Capable" squadron on a CV (for example, a VMF on a CVE), when you open the TF info screen, that squadron will not be listed as carrier squadron. You have to pick it from the ship screen to give orders and such. That's kind of a key that all is not perfect, operationally, in that setup.

Ed-



geofflambert -> RE: When is an Allied fighter unit carrier capable? (7/3/2012 9:45:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


Quite correct. I had them in reverse order. Good catch. Shows what happens if one doesn't always double check before posting.

Or I could just say I was testing the forum. Yea, that's it.[:)]

Alfred


[sm=party-smiley-012.gif]



Commander Stormwolf -> RE: When is an Allied fighter unit carrier capable? (7/4/2012 2:11:37 AM)


carrier capable squadrons become carrier trained if they stay on a carrier for some time

anyone know how exactly?





d0mbo -> RE: When is an Allied fighter unit carrier capable? (7/4/2012 11:23:24 AM)

Just by having a carrier capable airgroup sitting on a carrier for about 3 months (around 90 days).

You can leave the CV docked the entire time if you want to.




crsutton -> RE: When is an Allied fighter unit carrier capable? (7/4/2012 3:57:12 PM)

Of course carrier trained is better, but don't let it prevent you from using "carrier capable" squadrons. Although there is a penalty in OP losses, it is not significant enough to fret over. I wish it were but it is not. I use carrier capable squadrons all the time without giving it a second thought.



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