How to simulate post-technological war? (Full Version)

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Akmatov -> How to simulate post-technological war? (7/3/2012 7:52:47 PM)

Currently re-reading Ralph Peter's The War After Armageddon and got to wondering how to tweak TOAW to reflect a contemporary or future war where our modern technological force enhancers are no longer operational. For example, China (at least) with its anti-sat missile program could/would take out the various types of satellites upon which we have become so dependent for commo, targeting and recon. Also, a carefully placed nuclear explosion could fry many, many CPUs disabling the computers upon which we are also so dependent.

Just a few ideas that come to mind would be to decrease the anti-tank targeting chance, decrease Theater Recon, and decrease the values for all forms of artillery. I'm not sure if all of these are improved in 2010 over 1945 due to EMP/satillite vulnerable factors or not, though they should.

Would be very interested to hear what you guys think.




shunwick -> RE: How to simulate post-technological war? (7/3/2012 9:04:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Akmatov

Currently re-reading Ralph Peter's The War After Armageddon and got to wondering how to tweak TOAW to reflect a contemporary or future war where our modern technological force enhancers are no longer operational. For example, China (at least) with its anti-sat missile program could/would take out the various types of satellites upon which we have become so dependent for commo, targeting and recon. Also, a carefully placed nuclear explosion could fry many, many CPUs disabling the computers upon which we are also so dependent.

Just a few ideas that come to mind would be to decrease the anti-tank targeting chance, decrease Theater Recon, and decrease the values for all forms of artillery. I'm not sure if all of these are improved in 2010 over 1945 due to EMP/satillite vulnerable factors or not, though they should.

Would be very interested to hear what you guys think.




Akmatov,

It would not be difficult. Theatre recon can be zeroed. Using the equipment database you can easily remove enhanced targetting from the advanced weapons systems. Not sure that you would want to tone down artillery (although it is easy to do) since TOAW does not really model modern enhanced artillery munitions anyway. What you describe is only a relatively mild degradatin of modern system but you could go the whole hog.

Personally, I would rather like to see a sort of post-apocalypse scenario. I think TOAW would be rather good it.

Best wishes,
Steve



Akmatov -> RE: How to simulate post-technological war? (7/3/2012 11:07:00 PM)

quote:

I would rather like to see a sort of post-apocalypse scenario


Assuming by 'post-apocalypse' you mean post-some sort of nuclear exchange, what would be different? In the scenario Peters, and I here, are talking about there was a fairly limited use of nukes but with quite a few dirty bombs used. Fried CPUs, fried digital memory and few if any satellites would apply I think - with the degree of damage related to the degree of electronic infrastructure damage. A major hit would lead to a die off of at least 50% of the world population with the developed countries taking an especially hard hit.



rfrizz -> RE: How to simulate post-technological war? (7/4/2012 7:04:46 AM)

My two cents...

A worldwide scenario doesn't seem realistic. If an EMP were anywhere near what is feared, even something on the scale of the US Revolutionary war wouldn't work because "stepping back" is not something that I see happening.

Even if military EMP hardening works, the gross collapse would render the remaining assets worthless.

For the US as an example, a full-scale EMP attack would kill communications; you wouldn't be able to call your friend down the street. You also wouldn't be able to drive there because your car would be juiced. Civil order would collapse in short order, and the quickness of the collapse would far exceed that of the Roman Empire's collapse.

Within days, all social order would end, except for a few isolated tiny communities. Even a gun will be worthless because of food, or rather the absence of food!

This is just my opinion, and it isn't exactly original.


Maybe a better scenario would work on the assumption of a partially-successful EMP attack.

Regardless of the approach, I think that a primary assumption has to be some sort of social collapse to some degree. Maybe you could assume that order is restored after a time of destruction of infrastructure and massive loss of life.



Oberst_Klink -> RE: How to simulate post-technological war? (7/4/2012 12:50:43 PM)

Hogan is right... the only equipment you can use from the .eqp file for a post-apocalyptic scenario are: Lancers, Muskets, Mounted Rifles and the Porter unit; OK, you can give the Civilian unit some zombie features, too. ;) Other than that; if you want an actual regional or global conflict, what about some dystopia novels as a guideline, e.g. A handmaids tale, some of Harry Turtledove's novels?

Klink, Oberst

P.S. Happy 4th to the colonials!

[image]local://upfiles/28259/A53BC6A895B04B22984E90EDA40D2AF8.jpg[/image]



shunwick -> RE: How to simulate post-technological war? (7/4/2012 3:51:18 PM)

Guys,

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.

For post-apocalypse I wasn't thinking of a world-wide scenario or even post-nuclear war. Take any natural catastrophy (eg. asteroid strike or bacteriological etc) and either look at conflicts arising between groups of survivors or, at a later time, conflicts between a reforming society. TOAW is nothing if not flexible.

You can imagine any world you like. Even Zombies... why not?

Best wishes,
Steve



Akmatov -> RE: How to simulate post-technological war? (7/5/2012 6:09:00 AM)

In thinking about the aftermath of an 'apocalypse' it is easy to forget just how resilient ppl can be. Not looking up any dates, but as late as at least the sixteenth century there were serious disease outbreaks that killed a huge percent of populations, Seville in the 1650s lost a quarter of its population and things just kept moving along without a regression to rock and spears. Of course, an 'apocalypse' scenario is very dependent on just exactly what happened and how bad it was where. In Iranian - Israeli nuclear exchange could easily devastate Israel, it is so small and compact, and wipe out Iran, Israel has more warheads; but the impact further afield wouldn't be especially damaging or long lasting - assuming everyone is mildly rational and uses air bursts.

I think my area of curiosity was how to tweak TOAW to reflect the satellites upon which we rely so much being taken out and some carefully placed ultra-high altitude nuclear explosions optimized to wipe out computers - de-fanging the 'silver bullets' that currently play such a large role in first world warfare. And btb, I need to see if I can dig up a scientific article I read talking about how Earth is periodically swept by major electro-magnetic waves resulting from stellar events with a 100 - 150 year frequency. Seems the last one was in the 1850s when it put the telegraphs out of order for a while, the next one will have so much more to mess up and it is like due anytime. :)



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