Armaments vs Flak (Full Version)

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kaleun -> Armaments vs Flak (7/10/2012 3:14:09 PM)

In the old Talonsoft game IIRC the axis had no control over armaments factories. They produced flak, armaments or trucks and that was that. I also did not notice much difference in the ground combat outcomes regardless of allied air activity.

I notice that in this game Axis can change production from artillery to flak, or trucks to flak.
This begs the question: Does this affect the ground combat? Or in other words, if I change all armament production (gamey I know) to flak, will that hasten the breakthroughs on the ground? Has anyone tested this?[X(]



kaleun -> RE: Armaments vs Flak (7/20/2012 4:57:50 AM)

Anyone?



PizzaDeOveja -> RE: Armaments vs Flak (7/20/2012 9:00:04 AM)

I'm sure that there is a formula that applies to that. I read in the forum that switching from Guns&truck (axis units have 10.5 SF18 as the only art unit for simplicity sake in the game, same as only the Pzkw IV as tank) to AA production will bump up the AA guns you are able to deploy but in turn will get less guns to the frontline units and thus breakthroughs will happen more often (there is a formula for that also explained in the electronic manual that comes with the game). So hitting armament factories will hurt either one of those I'm guessing.

Anyways in my current awesome '44 allied campaign[&o], I'm currently hitting axis units in Italy to speed up the glorious allied advance and also hitting rails that get supplies to the front. I'm sure you already know that if you select an enemy unit, a white line appears first that states the distance to your nearest airbase and seconds after that, the rail supply line for that unit. It's seems like a good bet that disrupting the rails in the supply line will slow down a lot the recovery of disruption for those units and I suppose also the replacement of destroyed guns and tanks. The panzer units Especially, have a ton of AA that hurts a lot!

In the game, there is always a dice thrown(it says so in the manual) so random stuff is constantly happening and also there are so many industries in the game that it is difficult for the allied air effort to provide a measurable effect as those pesky germans have a lot of redundancy!(that is exactly why despite all they say in most books the air campaign didn't really hurt industry until very late in the war) That's why I think it is better to hit rails and thus avoid supplies getting to front lines. Of course AA production wont be hit with rail interdiction but if ground op's its your priority that is the way to go...I think!
BEST![;)]



kaleun -> RE: Armaments vs Flak (7/20/2012 2:29:58 PM)

I am currently playing to PBEM games as allied. I had always been frustrated by the ground game in the old Talonsoft game. I would pound the ground forces in Italy until they were all red in the face but still the allies would never break trough until the historical date.
Now in one of the games I keep hitting the ground forces and railroad; in the other I just hit railroads and mostly ignore the ground forces. I will post the results when the breakthrough does come.



Cripes A Mighty -> RE: Armaments vs Flak (7/20/2012 4:29:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kaleun

I am currently playing to PBEM games as allied. I had always been frustrated by the ground game in the old Talonsoft game. I would pound the ground forces in Italy until they were all red in the face but still the allies would never break trough until the historical date.
Now in one of the games I keep hitting the ground forces and railroad; in the other I just hit railroads and mostly ignore the ground forces. I will post the results when the breakthrough does come.


I would be pleased to hear the results of your efforts. I have always been of the mind that Italy is a waste of resources. I don't see much point in throwing planes and especially pilots down a sinkhole. In Italy I mainly attack airfields and see how many German pilots I can kill either on the ground or in the air. I am a bit more aggressive with strategic targets and airfields in the Balkans.

If I decide to hit the Gustav Line I don't think I'll try to attack it along its entire length, but rather concentrate on a group of maybe three or four units to keep red. I'll probably hit the units adjacent to the Tyrrhenian Sea . This should provide an lane wide enough for a breakthrough without wearing out my air units, and if it works, there will be only one open flank to defend from counterattack. Well, that's the theory anyway. We'll see how it goes.

At any rate, good luck.



john_txic -> RE: Armaments vs Flak (7/21/2012 8:07:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PizzaDeOveja

if you select an enemy unit, a white line appears first that states the distance to your nearest airbase and seconds after that, the rail supply line for that unit. [;)]




I've never seen that happen. Just tried again, and can't see it. What do you do to get this?


Cheers,


John



PizzaDeOveja -> RE: Armaments vs Flak (7/21/2012 9:43:39 AM)

Yep, check if you are running with the current patch just in case but you just left click on a unit, a line appears telling you the shortest distance to your nearest airport and seconds after that the resupply route of the unit. I will hit that with a sledge hammer before overlord ho ho ho...

It could be the scenario you are playing, but I don't think so as land units only appear if you can hit them.



john_txic -> RE: Armaments vs Flak (7/21/2012 12:54:31 PM)

I'm on v1.02 - is that it?

Also, I'm playing the 700-Turn '43 Campaign: what are you playing?



John



kaleun -> RE: Armaments vs Flak (7/21/2012 2:49:06 PM)

I can see those lines, and the railroad stations along them are red. Not that it seems to make any difference.
Usually if a ground unit is red, the AI will attack the one next to it that is untouched.
It almost seems like the only reason to attack Italian targets under avalanche is to keep the axis from moving too many fighters back to the homeland.



PizzaDeOveja -> RE: Armaments vs Flak (7/21/2012 8:13:21 PM)

I have to agree I dont think attacking armies is usefull other than to avoid mandatory targets for the air group.
They seem to recover incredibly fast from disruption even when the supply line has been hit in more than point.
They take very little damage compared to regular targets...it can be that I yet have to come up with an optimal bombing setup.
Currently p-47 100+ at 10.000 feet never does more than 30% disruption. How do you bomb those guys???



mikkey -> RE: Armaments vs Flak (7/21/2012 11:08:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: john_txic
I'm on v1.02 - is that it?

Also, I'm playing the 700-Turn '43 Campaign: what are you playing?

John
John, after left click on enemy unit you see distance to your nearest airport and after few seconds you see supply line of selected enemy unit


[image]local://upfiles/28255/4190EC18D6CC48AE93EA7E5E81EC3B81.jpg[/image]



john_txic -> RE: Armaments vs Flak (7/22/2012 9:04:34 AM)

Found it - thanks.

It only applies to the Overlord Campaigns. :-((



PizzaDeOveja -> RE: Armaments vs Flak (7/22/2012 11:26:11 AM)

There are some weird stuff happening with the reports about damage to land units in the game[:D]. I just got 8% disruption reported during the active phase to be transformed in the planning phase into a 20%. Also as units get supply they will get back up pretty quick. I dont understand while there arent any mandatory strikes on the units the land AI will attack so you could help a bit.
I think I will concentrate on hiting arms factories and railroads (thou I think supplys get thru anyways).
Those pesky colaborationists french[:-] at Renault just got a visit from the 8th....ho ho ho ho ho[sm=00000023.gif]...



kaleun -> RE: Armaments vs Flak (7/22/2012 4:18:52 PM)

I find the same line of supply in Italy in the 43 grand campaign. Not that it helps at all.



mikkey -> RE: Armaments vs Flak (7/22/2012 11:01:38 PM)

For me supply lines works for every campaign with ground forces (43, 44, Jet age, Avalanche, Overlord...)



PizzaDeOveja -> RE: Armaments vs Flak (7/23/2012 9:53:37 AM)

I think that what the game assumes you will hit all enemy units in the frontline. I will try that and see if I get any breakthroughs.
So far I would say P-47 are best unit for close air support. I use them with bombs and dive bomb those italo-krauts at 10.000 feet. Light and medium bombers seems to be usefull too but they can get a lot of AA damage and anyways I think they destroy less panzers and guns. Not sure about disruption, as so far it would seem I'm getting results that are totally at random.
How do you usually bomb land units?



kaleun -> RE: Armaments vs Flak (7/26/2012 5:29:09 AM)

Update d\from my two PBEM games.
It seems as if attacking the rail/ground forces may make a difference. At least in the game where I've ignored the ground forces and railroads, the axis has held a little longer on the base just south of the Sigfrid line, on the East coast (can't remember the name) Will keep watch.



7th Somersets -> RE: Armaments vs Flak (7/26/2012 10:10:04 AM)

I will use Liberators against front line troops - usually 18-24,000 feet. Usually very nice results against armoured units.

The short flights and usually very low damage to the aircraft seems to keep the Liberator guys pretty happy too.

The medium bombers do not seem very effective to me - and I will usually try to use them to hit targets a few times in a day. (Im not really sure whether that helps at all on the disruption front).




PizzaDeOveja -> RE: Armaments vs Flak (8/14/2012 12:28:31 PM)

Hi there guys...any idea what those * that appear next to the item my glorious tac bombers are destroying when bombing the axis in Italy means...Im guessing pzkwIV **** means that 4 of them were destroyed but...



7th Somersets -> RE: Armaments vs Flak (8/14/2012 3:45:07 PM)

Someone may be able to give you the correct information - but I have noticed that the * seem to count up from 1 to 5 and then return to a single *. I have always assumed that this was just to make it easier for you to see each time you blew something up by distinguishing between successive tanks/guns.



PizzaDeOveja -> RE: Armaments vs Flak (8/15/2012 8:06:56 PM)

Oh...I guess it has more sense if it works that way.
I just did 99% rail damage to one of the rail networks that connect most axis units on the italian front to milan (which appears to be the main hub for supplies). Im hopping it will at least make enemy land units lessen disruption at an slower pace. Milan will be writen of the map as soon as my night bombers in italy regain a bit of morale...



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