RE: Solomons Turkey Shoot (Full Version)

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Symon -> RE: Solomons Turkey Shoot (4/13/2013 7:22:30 PM)

Been watching you and Greyjoy playing this from the beginning. Have to say you guys are both impressive. You are doing things like they were meant to be done with. I like your strategic appreciation. I like how you plan. I like how you marshal your forces and use them in support of strategic objectives; using time and space, until it's "time". Love this AAR. Some of it reads like one of our Fleet Problems, or a short term CPX.

Especially like how ya'll put different things into perspective, both operationally and logistically. That stuff helps us, more than you know, to make things mo'bedda. You guys are good. And yeah, I'll say the same thing to Greyjoy.

JWE



JocMeister -> RE: Solomons Turkey Shoot (4/13/2013 7:27:14 PM)

I think you need to pause for a bit. Give yourself some time to "tidy up" everything before you move again. Mistakes are bound to happen but they tend to happen more often when I rush things! [:D] You are in a good position in the DEI and are about to neutralize Rabaul. I think you are rushing things. Its no good being in a excellent position if you lack the proper tools to exploit it.

Losing those APAs do suck. But nothing to be done about that now. I canīt remember when the started arriving but the Brits get some LSI(L) that might be viable to send to the Pacific. You can do the same invasions with LSTs as you could have done with APAs/AKAs. It will just be a bit harder due to the lower speed. So "snap invasions" probably wonīt be doable. That means advance slow and steady under as massive LBA cover.

Donīt forget that while you might have made a mistake or two you have still played far better then most of us could have done. You are in a better position than I am and Iīm a year ahead of you! [:D]

Donīt think about "lost or won". Arnīt you playing to have fun? [:)] Iīve been in the same position you are now morale wise three times in my game. I almost quit but the first two times byt my opponent convinced me to keep playing and the third time some people in my AAR convinced me to keep playing! Its about finding the fun in the little things while the big things suck! [:D]

Youīve done better then I could only dream of doing. Take a deep breath and look at what you have done wrong and stop doing it. Then look at the things youīve done well and start doing them again! [:)]


Cheers,
Jocke



Canoerebel -> RE: Solomons Turkey Shoot (4/13/2013 7:54:44 PM)

Brad, don't wallow in the mire! You're a good player playing a good player. Take a breath and move on. Make GJ pay for his evil ways. [:)]



ny59giants -> RE: Solomons Turkey Shoot (4/13/2013 8:17:24 PM)

I know I'm not one to throw advice out about playing through mistakes made. I've quit games too many times myself when I've had things go badly like CVs getting sunk early in '42 or taking Palembang in May '42 to find the oil and refineries almost totally destroyed. [:(] Right now I'm in March '44 as Japan and April '43 as Allies playing PBEM. My objectives are to finish both games regardless of any set backs and try to do better than history.

I've read many postings about achieving auto-victory as a goal for Japanese players. Mainly when playing scenario 2 since Japan does get some advantages. I guess my question for you Brad is what were and now are your personal goals in this PBEM vs Greyjoy?? Was it to defeat Japan before Sept '45?? Was it to win by auto-victory as Allies?? If not these, then what??



witpqs -> RE: Solomons Turkey Shoot (4/13/2013 9:16:34 PM)

quote:

Somehow, his BB TF misssed my night TFs, arrived during the day, sank all the transports, and made it back to Rabaul before the AM air phase. How did he do that?


Only Michael looking at the turn run in debug mode could say for sure, but chance definitely allows this. Maybe they weren't even in the same hex at the same time (the reality-variant in the sync bug being the Allies made a die throw for a radar contact and reacted), who knows? It happens in the game, and forces missed each plenty at night IRL, even with radar. Maybe try to compensate by having multiple forces there to catch intruders?



JohnDillworth -> RE: Solomons Turkey Shoot (4/13/2013 9:26:07 PM)

quote:

Need Help:

Finally, I lost another 8 attack transports off Green Island. This one really hurt, because it was actually a trap I set, where he took the bait and ran. I would actually like to know from the gallery how this one happened:

1. I set 5 BBs to "Retire", and be at Green Island at night. (I didn't want to expose them to air attacks from Rabaul)
2. I left my CVs close enough to sink anything short of Rabaul; range was set to JUST short of Rabaul, as I didn't want to get chewed-up by the CAP there

Somehow, his BB TF misssed my night TFs, arrived during the day, sank all the transports, and made it back to Rabaul before the AM air phase. How did he do that?

We had a sync bug at the same time, so the replay I saw (which wasn't valid due to bug), resulted in the entire IJN TF being sunk by BBs and air with minimal loss to me.

Fortunes of war so I accept the result, I just need to know how you can hit something during the day and escape air attacks.

As I'm reading both AAR I won't comment except to say I would drop GJ a note and ask how it happened from his end. Circumstances are unlikely to repeat and he is a wordy son of of gun so he might share his take on the events



Q-Ball -> Solomons Skeddadle? (4/14/2013 4:46:55 PM)

Aug 6 to Aug 10, 1943:

Thanks for the words of encouragement; I don't think it's all bad, in that I am moving very quickly, so in some ways that is a choice on my part. I chose to take more risks to move quicker. I probably should have chosen differently, but on the other hand, a) I get piles of APA in 1944, when I really need them badly, and b) I will be set-up by then base-wise.

I will have to use non-APA along the NG coast, but I can get away with it there. Not invading atolls or islands though. But to invade atolls and islands, you really need the LCI-Rocket ships and whatnot, which you don't get until 1944. So, I have a few months anyway before taking that on.

So, while my tactical grasp is certainly lacking lately, I think I'm on track to get to Japan in 1945.

Rabaul:

The unit count went down alot at Rabaul; I sent DDs into the harbor, and found it to be basically empty, except for a TF of AKEs we sank. Surprising! Next turn, I sent YMS to sweep mines; CD guns destroyed both of them, and in the daytime, the airbase was evacuated, save for flying boats.

So, this is interesting; I think Greyjoy withdrew a bunch of units from Rabaul, and is abandoning the airstrip. This, when I was just getting ready to sweep and bomb it, which is probably why he is abandoning it. With Torokina and Treasury about to be 2 lvl-5 airbases in easy P-47 range, it's time to leave, I guess.

So, this seems to cede control of the Solomon Sea. I can't relax due to pop-up attacks, but that means I need to accelerate the timetable, if he is leaving me the whole Bismarck chain.

Next Steps:

If Japanese airpower is gone, I can and should rapidly accelerate some moves.

Recon indicates that the NG coast is not heavily defended, all the way up to Hollandia or so; even Wewak is empty! There are some troops, probably enough base forces to keep me honest, but not much else. Wow.

So, we are about to land at Arawe and Finschaven, two bases that I have units prepped for and handy. I will follow that up with quick landings at Saidor, Hansa Bay to build those airbases.

I have 30000 troops prepping for Manus; this is my final objective, because I can turn Manus into a major naval base. But I am thinking of taking Rabaul, mostly because it would be a great base, particularly since it will be beyond recon range, so he won't be able to monitor activity there. There are 24000 troops there, but I am guessing none of those are elite Infantry or tanks or anything; probably base forces, SNLF, etc., various lesser formations. Stuff that 2 US Infantry divisons can easily defeat.

The MINES and CD guns are a problem at Rabaul; a couple follow on questions there.

First, anything you can do about that? I think I have to take my CD-gun lumps on landing, I can't really address the mines in advance if CD guns are there, which is probably why they are there.

Second, how many CD units does the Japanese get? Not very many IIRC, precious few.

Decisions, decisions on whether to land at Rabaul



ny59giants -> RE: Solomons Skeddadle? (4/14/2013 5:12:24 PM)

quote:

The MINES and CD guns are a problem at Rabaul; a couple follow on questions there.

First, anything you can do about that? I think I have to take my CD-gun lumps on landing, I can't really address the mines in advance if CD guns are there, which is probably why they are there.

Second, how many CD units does the Japanese get? Not very many IIRC, precious few.

Decisions, decisions on whether to land at Rabaul


Can you embed some DMS into a Bombardment TF to sweep some mines as you slowly decrease the range in which your escorts fire from?? Start out at 20k and slowly decrease by about 2 to 3 each time.



PaxMondo -> RE: Solomons Skeddadle? (4/14/2013 9:32:09 PM)

Brad,

Your opponent is playing well, but he is bold. Make him pay for his boldness. He's made the same play a couple times, so set him up something he will recognize and then slam the door hard. Or if that's what you've been doing, keep doing it. [;)]



Q-Ball -> RE: Solomons Skeddadle? (4/16/2013 4:07:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Brad,

Your opponent is playing well, but he is bold. Make him pay for his boldness. He's made the same play a couple times, so set him up something he will recognize and then slam the door hard. Or if that's what you've been doing, keep doing it. [;)]


Exactly, and that's what I thought I was doing a couple times, but c'est la guerre. It will work eventually, because he'll take an even greater risk. The reason why is that he'll have to, because we're moving pretty fast, and will eventually get to a no-go zone.

8-11 to 8-15-43:

The next month or two figures to be fairly quiet, unless Greyjoy changes his mind about the Solomons.

Rabaul, Kaveing, are all empty of aircraft save for flying boats, and I don't see any planes closer than Vanimo. We torched a bunch of Topsy on the runway at Aitape, probably airlifting in refugees from Lae or someplace.

The following roughly are the nearby garrisons:

Arawe: 7K
Aitape: 7K
Hansa Bay: 67th Nav Gd
Madang: 18th Garrison Bde
Lae: 4K, in 10 units (lots of shattered units)
Rabaul: 25K
Shortlands: 15K, many refugees from Torokina
Saidor, Finschaven, Cape Gloucester: Empty

So, the defenses in NG are weak to non-existant. We are accelerating our preps for landing. We are landing at Finschaven and Arawe in days, then probably a move toward Wewak and Manus. Not sure if this is a trap, or a major pullback; we'll see, but I am advancing cautiously in case.

At the moment, though, we received INTEL that KAGA is at Saipan. That seems right to me, so probably KB is there. That means I can do whatever I want at the moment, and makes me think this is a pullback.

Strategic Plan:

So, the next 3 months or so, I plan to gobble up the bases in Papau NG, build the ports and airfields to prepare a major move north or west. This will allow me to do a few things:

1. Rest all units, and repair shipping. I need production and repairs to catch-up, particularly in APA. I have many under repair.
2. Accumulate more 4E and 2E and P-47. I haven't lost many P-47, so having a larger stockpile will really help.
3. Build infrastructure for later moves; that means large ports, with piles of fuel and supplies, forward deployed at Manus, etc, for future moves



Canoerebel -> RE: Solomons Skeddadle? (4/16/2013 4:13:50 PM)

So you have 3.5 months left in 1943. If, by the end of the year, you've progressed well across New Guinea's north coast, you should be in good position to prosecute the war in 1944. GJ's putting up a tough fight, but you're nonetheless drawing nigh to the heartland.



crsutton -> RE: Solomons Turkey Shoot (4/16/2013 7:26:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

PS: The contingencies to recover from my losses are these:




3. I can cover for the lack of cruisers, or will have to, via DDs, like all the FLetchers. I have not lost that many DDs, so I am in good shape here.




The Fletchers can take on and beat any Japanese surface TF if fighting at night. late 43 brings reliable torpedoes and 44 brings a boost in crew experience. That combined with slight armor, top notch radar and better guns makes them dominant. I love to catch old Japanese BBs at night with them.



PaxMondo -> RE: Solomons Turkey Shoot (4/17/2013 4:02:20 AM)

I agree ... I won't risk my CA's against Fletchers ... I have to use air against them. There isn't a good SCTF counter to Fletchers for IJ.



JocMeister -> RE: Solomons Turkey Shoot (4/17/2013 10:24:21 AM)

I have only good things to say about the Fletchers! Love them! [&o]



Q-Ball -> Dumb (4/21/2013 6:34:19 AM)

Well, I've lost a CV battle. I left all my DBs on training, and 1/2 my fighters are also stood down on training missions. As a result, free shot by the KB again. I won't lose any ships, but several CVs are damaged.

I am considering a resignation. I rushed the turn, and just completely messed up the settings.

More to follow as it's late, but no fun when you lose that way




Cpt Sherwood -> RE: Dumb (4/21/2013 6:41:45 AM)

Don't resign. If you don't want to continue, find someone who will take over. I would, and at least one person has advertised in the opponents wanted for a situation like this.



JocMeister -> RE: Dumb (4/21/2013 7:58:22 AM)

Hang in there Q-ball. Donīt do anything hasty!



Chickenboy -> Get back in there and fight! (4/21/2013 12:56:47 PM)

I'm changing the subject line, please forgive the breach of etiquette. [;)]



Canoerebel -> RE: Get back in there and fight! (4/21/2013 2:05:26 PM)

Not very long ago, your opponent was in a considerably greater predicament than you are at this same date in the game.  I'm referring, of course, to his game vs. Rader.  He stuck to it and turned it into one of the epic AE games of all time.

You have reached a point where a series of losses has affected your morale so that you aren't excited about the next turn or next week's turn.  I urge you to abandon the "not-so-fun, methodical Allied steamroller technique" in favor of something that brings you pleasue and satisfaction.

And who was it that said, "Never, never, never, Never! give up!"  I forget whether that was Winston Churchill, Art Linkletter or Inspector Clouseau, but sounds like a decent motto to live by.

Go get 'em, dude!



Crackaces -> RE: Get back in there and fight! (4/21/2013 2:31:47 PM)

quote:

Never, never, never, Never! give up!" I forget whether that was Winston Churchill, Art Linkletter or Inspector Clouseau


I do know Jim Valvano in a very famious speech 1 month away from his death said these very same words ...



Chickenboy -> RE: Get back in there and fight! (4/21/2013 3:34:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

Never, never, never, Never! give up!" I forget whether that was Winston Churchill, Art Linkletter or Inspector Clouseau


I do know Jim Valvano in a very famious speech 1 month away from his death said these very same words ...

So he gave up? Quitter! [:@]



Crackaces -> RE: Get back in there and fight! (4/21/2013 3:39:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

Never, never, never, Never! give up!" I forget whether that was Winston Churchill, Art Linkletter or Inspector Clouseau


I do know Jim Valvano in a very famious speech 1 month away from his death said these very same words ...

So he gave up? Quitter! [:@]


Not sure that this is true .. he left behind a foundation that contributes millions toward cancer research .. that I hope someday offers cures for your children [;)] I might propose his legacy is still fightng today .. [8D]



JohnDillworth -> RE: Get back in there and fight! (4/21/2013 3:44:41 PM)

"I am considering a resignation. I rushed the turn, and just completely messed up the settings. "

Snap Out of It!!



Chickenboy -> RE: Get back in there and fight! (4/21/2013 3:44:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

Never, never, never, Never! give up!" I forget whether that was Winston Churchill, Art Linkletter or Inspector Clouseau


I do know Jim Valvano in a very famious speech 1 month away from his death said these very same words ...

So he gave up? Quitter! [:@]


Not sure that this is true .. he left behind a foundation that contributes millions toward cancer research .. that I hope someday offers cures for your children [;)] I might propose his legacy is still fightng today .. [8D]


Trying to inject humor here, Crackaces, by proposing that if he died, he must therefore have given up his fight to live. Ergo he's a quitter. At some level, in the end, we all are. I'm sure his foundation does good things for lots of people in his name.



Crackaces -> RE: Get back in there and fight! (4/21/2013 3:52:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

Never, never, never, Never! give up!" I forget whether that was Winston Churchill, Art Linkletter or Inspector Clouseau


I do know Jim Valvano in a very famious speech 1 month away from his death said these very same words ...

So he gave up? Quitter! [:@]


Not sure that this is true .. he left behind a foundation that contributes millions toward cancer research .. that I hope someday offers cures for your children [;)] I might propose his legacy is still fightng today .. [8D]


Trying to
Oh yes I got the humor .. and why I used the smiley faces .. and my ineuendo of continuing the fight pandimensionaly ... it might seem he lost the battle on one dimension but he continues the fight in so many more ....

Some knute rockne speech for Q-Ball .. [:D]



Chickenboy -> RE: Get back in there and fight! (4/21/2013 3:59:03 PM)

I'm not sure the metaphor is stirring here, Crackaces. "Q-ball: even if you die, your memory will live on with us." There's that whole 'die' thing that's a real deal breaker, IMO.

Reminiscent of this: [:D]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwrgPZltnjo



Schlemiel -> RE: Get back in there and fight! (4/21/2013 4:43:03 PM)

I'd take it as a good omen, personally, if you've survived 2 terrible encounters with the KB with most of the consequence being time in the yard, at least as long as you can slip back into friendly LBA before losing anything. You are still in very good position geographically as far as I can tell, and I think you'd probably be depriving both yourself and Greyjoy of an enjoyable game if you back out now. It's been well-fought on both sides, and should lead to a suitably destructive conclusion :)



PaxMondo -> Assessment (4/21/2013 5:07:56 PM)

Brad,

Hey, you pooched it (big time) and all it cost you was 3xCV in the yard for 90 days. I wish I was that lucky.

Take the weekend off, make it a long weekend, and then you should be ok. Long game like this, when I start to rush turns it is a sign of fatigue. Take a little break. A few days off and you will be surprised at how your attitude and your play rebound.

As CB notes above, you are in good shape. Still '43. In early '44 you are well positioned to really just crank through either the PacCen or the PacNor route. We all know there is little/nothing that the IJ can do in either direction because they can't amass enough LBA support. Either way, you are in B29 range of the HI in Mid '44 and that is when IJ problems really start to happen. This is all historical and dang hard to prevent.

All you need to do is not get impatient. Pick your direction, get your units prepping and your bases staged. Mar 44 or so, pull the trigger. You will be in either the Marianas or the Kuriles by July '44 and then you start raining destruction on the HI.

He's been clearly over-building his airforce in '43 and that means he hasn't been stockpiling HI (I would estimate that he will have +5000 Tojo/Zero/Oscar already built that are already outdated = +200K HI and +500K supply). This style of play also means he has heavily invested in R&D. Again, a HUGE drain on supply. Unlike HI, supply is lost rapidly during air attacks. If you are able to start hitting the HI in mid-44 his economy will implode. He won't have the HI and supply needed to build late war fighters, he'll be stuck with Tojo's and Zero's facing your TBolts or he gets all his reinforcement LCU's at 33% strength because he doesn't have the ARM/VEH to build them, and/or he has insufficient supply to build factories and support his units. Oops.

Tactically, he is playing a pretty good game. His weakness is that he hasn't got enough experience with the IJ to be aware of the strategic pitfalls. Your weakness is that you are overzealous. You can recover, his decisions are almost irreversible now. Take a break, re-group.



Crackaces -> RE: Get back in there and fight! (4/21/2013 5:49:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I'm not sure the metaphor is stirring here, Crackaces. "Q-ball: even if you die, your memory will live on with us." There's that whole 'die' thing that's a real deal breaker, IMO.

Reminiscent of this: [:D]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwrgPZltnjo



Actually there is more truth and relavancy of context here ...

Maybe we can start the QBall Sudden Carrier Loss Syndrome Foundation? This devastating disease is repsonsible for the premature deaths of many WitP AE campaign games ..[8D]



SqzMyLemon -> RE: Get back in there and fight! (4/21/2013 6:08:45 PM)

We've all been there Q-Ball. However, I wouldn't trade your current game experience for another. You've made mistakes, but you're also up against a cagey opponent. I wouldn't trade the challenge and competitiveness of this matchup for anything. You'll be fine, take a breather then come out swinging.



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