Poor kill rate on ram attacks?

Poor kill rate on ram attacks? (Full Version)

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erstad -> Poor kill rate on ram attacks? (8/4/2012 10:01:25 PM)
This might be WAD, but it seemed worth asking. In the combat report excerpts below, there are 22-23 ramming attacks on Allied mediums. But there are only 18 japanese air losses total (this could be FOW related) and 2 destroyed allied planes. While I have no references or basis for saying what a kill rate on a ram attack is, my uneducated guess would be that more allied planes would have gone down. This example might be a little more extreme than most but I do see a lot of ram attack reports with generally not a lot to show for it. Japanese aircraft losses A6M5 Zero: 9 destroyed J2M2 Jack: 3 destroyed N1K2-J George: 3 destroyed Ki-61-Id Tony: 3 destroyed Allied aircraft losses B-25C Mitchell: 1 damaged B-25D1 Mitchell: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged B-25H Mitchell: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged B-25J11 Mitchell: 9 damaged P-51B Mustang: 2 destroyed Banzai! - Asada T. in a N1K2-J George rams a B-25H Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Morita W. in a N1K2-J George rams a B-25H Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Minegishi W. in a A6M5 Zero rams a B-25D1 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Oyama W. in a A6M5 Zero rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Akashiba S. in a A6M5 Zero rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Doikawa O. in a A6M5 Zero rams a B-25H Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Endo V. in a A6M5 Zero rams a B-25H Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Inano L. in a A6M5 Zero rams a B-25H Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Ibusuki L. in a A6M5 Zero rams a B-25H Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Matsumoto T. in a J2M2 Jack rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Morioka U. in a J2M2 Jack rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Kusumoto A. in a J2M2 Jack rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Katagi O. in a N1K2-J George rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Kanda J. in a N1K2-J George rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Kanzaki D. in a N1K2-J George rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Also attacking 34th Ind.Mixed Bde /1 ... Also attacking 108th JAAF AF Bn ... Also attacking 14th Ind.Mixed Regiment ... Also attacking 26th Ind.Mixed Rgt /1 ... Also attacking 108th JAAF AF Bn ... Also attacking 14th Ind.Mixed Regiment ... Also attacking 34th Ind.Mixed Bde /1 ... Also attacking 108th JAAF AF Bn ... Also attacking 14th Ind.Mixed Regiment ... Banzai! - Sagara G. in a A6M5 Zero rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Ohara H. in a A6M5 Zero rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Araki M. in a A6M5 Zero rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Hanamoto V. in a A6M5 Zero rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Saito I. in a Ki-61-Id Tony rams a B-25H Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Agawa L. in a Ki-61-Id Tony rams a B-25H Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Gushi C. in a Ki-61-Id Tony rams a B-25H Mitchell for the Emperor

Miller -> RE: Poor kill rate on ram attacks? (8/4/2012 10:57:16 PM)
I had this problem a couple of years back. It is related to the B25s heavy nose armament......they damage Jap fighters when they attack head on and a damaged fighter is much more likely to ram, unforunately they seem to be ram proof for some reason[:(] http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2469825

michaelm75au -> RE: Poor kill rate on ram attacks? (8/5/2012 1:13:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: erstad This might be WAD, but it seemed worth asking. In the combat report excerpts below, there are 22-23 ramming attacks on Allied mediums. But there are only 18 japanese air losses total (this could be FOW related) and 2 destroyed allied planes. While I have no references or basis for saying what a kill rate on a ram attack is, my uneducated guess would be that more allied planes would have gone down. This example might be a little more extreme than most but I do see a lot of ram attack reports with generally not a lot to show for it. Japanese aircraft losses A6M5 Zero: 9 destroyed J2M2 Jack: 3 destroyed N1K2-J George: 3 destroyed Ki-61-Id Tony: 3 destroyed Allied aircraft losses B-25C Mitchell: 1 damaged B-25D1 Mitchell: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged B-25H Mitchell: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged B-25J11 Mitchell: 9 damaged P-51B Mustang: 2 destroyed Banzai! - Asada T. in a N1K2-J George rams a B-25H Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Morita W. in a N1K2-J George rams a B-25H Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Minegishi W. in a A6M5 Zero rams a B-25D1 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Oyama W. in a A6M5 Zero rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Akashiba S. in a A6M5 Zero rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Doikawa O. in a A6M5 Zero rams a B-25H Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Endo V. in a A6M5 Zero rams a B-25H Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Inano L. in a A6M5 Zero rams a B-25H Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Ibusuki L. in a A6M5 Zero rams a B-25H Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Matsumoto T. in a J2M2 Jack rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Morioka U. in a J2M2 Jack rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Kusumoto A. in a J2M2 Jack rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Katagi O. in a N1K2-J George rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Kanda J. in a N1K2-J George rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Kanzaki D. in a N1K2-J George rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Also attacking 34th Ind.Mixed Bde /1 ... Also attacking 108th JAAF AF Bn ... Also attacking 14th Ind.Mixed Regiment ... Also attacking 26th Ind.Mixed Rgt /1 ... Also attacking 108th JAAF AF Bn ... Also attacking 14th Ind.Mixed Regiment ... Also attacking 34th Ind.Mixed Bde /1 ... Also attacking 108th JAAF AF Bn ... Also attacking 14th Ind.Mixed Regiment ... Banzai! - Sagara G. in a A6M5 Zero rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Ohara H. in a A6M5 Zero rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Araki M. in a A6M5 Zero rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Hanamoto V. in a A6M5 Zero rams a B-25J11 Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Saito I. in a Ki-61-Id Tony rams a B-25H Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Agawa L. in a Ki-61-Id Tony rams a B-25H Mitchell for the Emperor Banzai! - Gushi C. in a Ki-61-Id Tony rams a B-25H Mitchell for the Emperor Do you have the replay from the report shown? I haven't seen that many 'rams' in one attack before, and would be good to review.

erstad -> RE: Poor kill rate on ram attacks? (8/5/2012 7:54:53 AM)
this should be it

sandman455 -> RE: Poor kill rate on ram attacks? (8/5/2012 4:05:15 PM)
I don't suppose there is a way for the modder to change the effectiveness of a ramming event? Or sans that ability, decrease the likelihood of one occurring? The effect of a 2+ ton aircraft impacting directly into another at a very conservative 20-knot closure would be catastrophic to the largest of aircraft of today let alone something of WWII. A glancing blow might be survivable but the odds would be exceedingly slim. Also, given the combat philosophy of the attacking pilots (Banzai!) this was going to be the almost always fatal version of the attack where the engine block was the battering instrument. If what we are reading in the combat report is a critically damaged aircraft trying to ram another, then perhaps the combat log could be changed to read ". . . A6M5 Zero attempts to ram . . ." It would at least make it a bit more digestible. Anything is better than reading about 18 single engine aircraft ramming into some 2E's and bringing down 2.

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