Yorktown Helmsman Asleep at the wheel... (Full Version)

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artuitus_slith -> Yorktown Helmsman Asleep at the wheel... (8/13/2012 4:51:23 PM)

Under what conditions do collisions occur? I've seen collisions in surface engagements, but is there a random chance that your ships will just crash into each other? The reason i ask is because the Yorktown has had a collision with someone/something in open ocean without engaging in any type of combat surface or air attack. Am I correct in assuming that a collision can occur anywhere at anytime or is this a bug? And do things like bad weather and number of ships in TF affect the chance of collision?

Personally I think the AI is just cheating to punish me for damaging one of It's CVs by mining Merak.[:D]



rms1pa -> RE: Yorktown Helmsman Asleep at the wheel... (8/13/2012 5:20:59 PM)

i think it is WAD,


in real life we called ourselves "tin cans" and the carriers "can openers".

rms/pa



Walloc -> RE: Yorktown Helmsman Asleep at the wheel... (8/13/2012 5:39:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gmoney

Under what conditions do collisions occur? I've seen collisions in surface engagements, but is there a random chance that your ships will just crash into each other? The reason i ask is because the Yorktown has had a collision with someone/something in open ocean without engaging in any type of combat surface or air attack. Am I correct in assuming that a collision can occur anywhere at anytime or is this a bug? And do things like bad weather and number of ships in TF affect the chance of collision?

Personally I think the AI is just cheating to punish me for damaging one of It's CVs by mining Merak.[:D]


The number of ships in TF affects the chance of collision. If its directly proportional or not i dont know, but it does seem to happen much more frequently in larger TFs. Each turn they sail around i assume a roll is done cuz it can happen during moving around. Also going into combat there in that combat rolls for collisions.

Hope it helps,

Rasmus



witpqs -> RE: Yorktown Helmsman Asleep at the wheel... (8/13/2012 6:07:35 PM)

There were lots of collisions in WWII IRL. Two notable ones that come to mind...

Two USN fast BBs, Washington and (IIRC) South Dakota.

The Queen Elizabeth cut an escort in half when nearing port once.



artuitus_slith -> RE: Yorktown Helmsman Asleep at the wheel... (8/13/2012 8:21:12 PM)

I figured it was WAD, but still think its revenge for my well laid out minefield in Merak damaging one of the AI's CVL groups. 1 CVL and CL damaged and as many as 5 DD sank. :) Regardless it doesnt appear to be a big deal since the impending invasion of Canton seems to have been called off, instead the japs are occupying the solomans so I'll just retire to brisbane for repairs. On an unrelated note I was planning a raid on Truk, lots of merchant shipping there, when my subs stumbled across 2 seperate CV groups with at least 3 CVs in them-glad i didnt go through with that plan lol

As for the helmsman who allowed the collision-normally the captain is responsible for all actions on his ship and this case is no diffrent, however Adm Spruance is too valuable to the war effort to be replaced until after the war. The helmsman in question however is replaceable, and has been re-assigned to the POW infiltration Group, in other words he has been dropped off in a lifeboat near Baker Island in order to 'infiltrate' the Jap POW system.



CaptDave -> RE: Yorktown Helmsman Asleep at the wheel... (8/13/2012 9:03:05 PM)

You did make sure that LCdr Queeg didn't have the conn, right?



Crackaces -> RE: Yorktown Helmsman Asleep at the wheel... (8/13/2012 9:05:01 PM)

One thing to think about .. weather .. I suspect "severe storms" is a trigger for a collison die roll modified by the number of ships in the TF ...

In a convoy of 20 TK with 10 escorts of vaious types inclluding a CA with float planes . IN a combat replay I just noted an air patrol being cancelled due to bad weather [severe storms] followed by a collision of two TK's ... [:(]



Gridley380 -> RE: Yorktown Helmsman Asleep at the wheel... (8/13/2012 9:44:17 PM)

I like to run 100 ship transport TFs from the West Coast to Pearl and I swear I get a collision or a major engineering casualty or SOMETHING every third convoy - almost always on the return leg. The AI does not appear to be smart enough to create escort TFs after such events, even when a 14kt convoy has been slowed down to 5kt.

Yes, size does matter.



jmalter -> RE: Yorktown Helmsman Asleep at the wheel... (8/13/2012 10:10:29 PM)

IMO, chances for collision increase w/ more ships in the TF, and i don't doubt that weather is a factor.

surely 2 x 50-ship TransTFs would (in the long run) suffer fewer collisions than 1 100-ship TF, 3 x 33-ship convoys would suffer even less.

collisions occur only within TFs, i've never seen a collision between ships of different TFs.

i've seen more than a few collisions occur when a SurfTF is involved in combat. Does anyone know if ship experience and/or captain/TFcommander ratings affect the possibility of collisions?



BBfanboy -> RE: Yorktown Helmsman Asleep at the wheel... (8/23/2012 3:10:16 AM)

I am certain that TF commander naval skills and ship crew experience are factored in. When I have had collisions and checked the ship info afterward the Captain's naval skill was usually poor and the crew experience mediocre.



Cavalry Corp -> RE: Yorktown Helmsman Asleep at the wheel... (8/24/2012 5:01:20 PM)

I had two Jap modern DD collide in a 4 ship asw TF

Both ships suffered massive damage 57 flt etc, the other suffered over 50 engine damage.



SpitfireIX -> RE: Yorktown Helmsman Asleep at the wheel... (9/22/2012 7:49:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

There were lots of collisions in WWII IRL. Two notable ones that come to mind...

Two USN fast BBs, Washington and (IIRC) South Dakota.

The Queen Elizabeth cut an escort in half when nearing port once.

Actually it was the Queen Mary, and the unfortunate victim was HMS Curacoa. My grandfather went to Britain with his unit aboard the QM, but not on that voyage.

Other notable collisions include HMS Punjab's being run down by HMS King George V and the collision between IJN Mogami and IJN Mikuma which led to the latter's being sunk by SBDs at Midway.

Near misses also occured. From The Big E, by Edward P. Stafford (p. 365, Naval Institute Press edition):

quote:

At 5:00 a.m. on the twenty-eighth [of May, 1944], an Enterprise ensign gave some very bad moments to a great many other men, including a highly articulate command echelon of one vice admiral, one rear admiral, and two senior captains. He ordered left rudder instead of right in executing the zigzag plan. For a horrible minute, Enterprise, flying the two-star flag of Rear Admiral J. W. "Black Jack" Reeves, commanding Task Group 58.3, and Lexington, with Vice Admiral Marc Mitscher, Commander Task Force 58 embarked, angled toward each other and a catastrophic collision at 18 knots. The error was discovered in seconds and collision averted, but [Captain] Mat Gardner did not recover his calm good humor for two days, and it was many weeks and hours of instruction later that the ensign again stood watch on the Big E's bridge as junior officer of the deck.



Reg -> RE: Yorktown Helmsman Asleep at the wheel... (9/22/2012 10:56:29 PM)


Post war, HMAS Melbourne collided with and sank two escorts, HMAS Voyager in 1964 who cut across her bow and USS Frank E. Evans in 1969 under similar circumstances.

These incidents, along with several minor collisions, shipboard accidents, and aircraft losses, led to the reputation that Melbourne was jinxed.




msieving1 -> RE: Yorktown Helmsman Asleep at the wheel... (9/22/2012 11:34:35 PM)

quote:

Two USN fast BBs, Washington and (IIRC) South Dakota.


Indiana, not South Dakota. Indiana's captain was relieved and never served at sea after the collision.




John Lansford -> RE: Yorktown Helmsman Asleep at the wheel... (9/23/2012 12:54:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

There were lots of collisions in WWII IRL. Two notable ones that come to mind...

Two USN fast BBs, Washington and (IIRC) South Dakota.

The Queen Elizabeth cut an escort in half when nearing port once.


King George V ran over a destroyer as well, but the DD got even when its depth charges went off underneath the BB's stern, damaging it enough to send her in to port for repairs.



jmalter -> RE: Yorktown Helmsman Asleep at the wheel... (9/23/2012 5:49:29 AM)

i've lost the link i had to what was essentially a USN Pacific kriegstagebuch, but it seemed to me that mishaps occurred daily - collisions, groundings, semi-major engineering failures, crashing into a pier, even food-poisoning outbreaks that could hit an entire ship's company.

i like how the game models damage increase over long voyages, & gives you the occaisional collision or amphibious 'bottom ripped out', but IMO it doesn't realistically portray the frequent occurrence of mid-level malfunctions that would put 5 to 15 damage points onto sys, float, or engines.

tho' awhile back, someone posted that he'd had a 'boiler explosion', which was a hoot 'cos it happened to a diesel-powered LST!



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