Fighter Bombers on NavB (Full Version)

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KPAX -> Fighter Bombers on NavB (8/13/2012 6:45:51 PM)

Some of the Allies’ airframes carry some big bomb payloads (i.e., Corsair).

Has anyone used the Corsair on a CV as NavB?

How about another land-based Fighter/Fighter Bomber as a NavB?

I would think that having the ability to be a fighter (defend yourself well) combined with the NavB, would make it a killer combo.

Here are my questions:

1. Has anyone done this and what have the results been?

2. What NavB skill would be a minimum (60+)?


3. Would you use it as a LowNavB or more as NavB (and would it work as a DB under this setting)?

4. I would assume that the Air skill needs to be high (70+)?


5. Would you set it up for an Escort Mission with a secondary skill of NavB?

6. Or could you just set it up as a primary mission of NavB and if air combat came into effect, it would switch over to fighter or defend itself as a fighter?

7. What alt would be best if you are really interested in NavB, but just in case, have it defend itself?



jcjordan -> RE: Fighter Bombers on NavB (8/14/2012 12:15:03 AM)

I've done it but I'm late war in my game vs AI & there's not much around for them other than barges/MTB types. I do train them up in NB skill so they have a good chance to do something but in my situation it's just not worth to losses for the possible gain. As to skill I'd say at least 40's to start getting some results. I think FB use glide not DB attacks. I've always had mine set to naval primary mission w/ alt of 6k & they'd attack/defend normally but if there's CAP they get bounced (results based on who's better exp me or AI) & end up not NB due to being in combat (I assume it'd be like hey we got bandits, drop ordnance & attack the fighters instead of ships situation)



Hooper82 -> RE: Fighter Bombers on NavB (8/14/2012 1:19:29 AM)

I've been doing this a bit as Allies. Especially with Beaufighters, but also Fulmar IIs and even P-39s.
They carry a full bombload when doing LowN (unlike non-attack bombers), so I've been focusing on LowN instead of NavB.
I've had some good successes, and they seam to stand up a bit better than regular bombers to CAP. This is just anecdotal evidence though.



JeffroK -> RE: Fighter Bombers on NavB (8/14/2012 5:06:35 AM)

I have always got good results with Beaufighters and P-39's



KPAX -> RE: Fighter Bombers on NavB (8/14/2012 2:28:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hooper82

I've been doing this a bit as Allies. Especially with Beaufighters, but also Fulmar IIs and even P-39s.
They carry a full bombload when doing LowN (unlike non-attack bombers), so I've been focusing on LowN instead of NavB.
I've had some good successes, and they seam to stand up a bit better than regular bombers to CAP. This is just anecdotal evidence though.



So FB on LowNavB do not have their bomb load cut in 1/2 like a non-attack bomber?



Hooper82 -> RE: Fighter Bombers on NavB (8/14/2012 3:40:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KPAX
So FB on LowNavB do not have their bomb load cut in 1/2 like a non-attack bomber?


Correct, both Fighter Bombers and regular Fighters carry their full bomb load on LowN missions.



TheLoneGunman_MatrixForum -> RE: Fighter Bombers on NavB (8/14/2012 4:45:42 PM)

Keep in mind as well, fighters set to 100ft will carry bombs (provided they are not using fuel tanks or in extended range) and will use the Strafe skill to determine hits from both their bombs and their guns.

The biggest downside to this is that the fighters are extremely vulnerable to AA fire, and in a mod like Da Babes will get chewed to pieces if there's even a small amount of AA present.



Lokasenna -> RE: Fighter Bombers on NavB (8/14/2012 5:00:04 PM)

In my first campaign against AI and in the Guadalcanal scenario, I've used P-39s and the P-40s that carry bombs to great effect against xAKs and even some DDs and CLs. Mostly because I had a swarm of them (I think against the AI I had shipped about 175 P-39s and 125 P-40s from the West Coast to Java and the Celebes via Australia), and used them at 100 ft. on either ground attack or naval attack. This was especially useful because early in the war I found myself very short on level bombers capable of doing any damage, and on dive bombers.

Just make sure that once you transfer to another base, if you used drop tanks to get there - turn them off or you won't be carrying any bombs on your missions! I've forgotten that a couple of times and missed some juicy targets because of it.



Balou -> RE: Fighter Bombers on NavB (8/16/2012 6:29:45 PM)

Java and Celebes sounds like early 42. Your P-39/P-40 were that good in lowN by early 42 ?



jmalter -> RE: Fighter Bombers on NavB (8/16/2012 7:18:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Just make sure that once you transfer to another base, if you used drop tanks to get there - turn them off or you won't be carrying any bombs on your missions! I've forgotten that a couple of times and missed some juicy targets because of it.

heh - i had that prob w/ my Stringbags defending Ragnoon. they could wear a droptank or a torp, but not both!

>Balou - large numbers of LowN attackers helped here - say they had 60 days of training, another 30 being shipped to the front, even if the LowN skill was in the high 50s/low 60s, they'll get some hits. if they were at-start sqns, they might've begun the game w/ a decent Exp rating. btw, i think your avatar is great!



Balou -> RE: Fighter Bombers on NavB (8/16/2012 7:30:03 PM)

Hope outcome was worth the losses. Avatar: don't ask whats hidden behind the flag...



jmalter -> RE: Fighter Bombers on NavB (8/16/2012 8:19:33 PM)

heh, behind the white flag of surrender must lie the raised finger of implacable resistance...



Lokasenna -> RE: Fighter Bombers on NavB (8/16/2012 10:59:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Balou

Hope outcome was worth the losses. Avatar: don't ask whats hidden behind the flag...


I actually didn't lose too many of them. I used between 3 and 5 full groups (anywhere between 65 and a full 125! a/c attacking each turn), and honestly just threw them in without training them up at all because I had such a glut of fighter groups. IJN ships, especially the transports, don't seem to put up much in the way of AA - especially early in the war. Most strikes simply resulted in damaged planes (about 1/3 of them each strike) rather than any hard casualties from AA. It was indeed during mid-'42, and I used the tactic in the Guadalcanal scenario as well.

I could reasonably expect about a dozen 250-lb. bomb hits from each strike, and sometimes got much more than that. I don't believe I ever sunk an IJN CL (the slow ones and Jintsu were the ones that got bombed), but I sunk quite a few xAKs and xAKLs, and perhaps a DD or two.

Of course, I was only using them in this role because I knew that most of the heavy IJN stuff was damaged or sunk and I wasn't in any danger of losing 50+ planes and pilots in a single strike to either fighter cover or heavy flak (from CAs, BBs, CVs). I'll try to remember to attach some results when I get home tonight ;).



KPAX -> RE: Fighter Bombers on NavB (8/17/2012 3:37:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Balou

Hope outcome was worth the losses. Avatar: don't ask whats hidden behind the flag...


I actually didn't lose too many of them. I used between 3 and 5 full groups (anywhere between 65 and a full 125! a/c attacking each turn), and honestly just threw them in without training them up at all because I had such a glut of fighter groups. IJN ships, especially the transports, don't seem to put up much in the way of AA - especially early in the war. Most strikes simply resulted in damaged planes (about 1/3 of them each strike) rather than any hard casualties from AA. It was indeed during mid-'42, and I used the tactic in the Guadalcanal scenario as well.

I could reasonably expect about a dozen 250-lb. bomb hits from each strike, and sometimes got much more than that. I don't believe I ever sunk an IJN CL (the slow ones and Jintsu were the ones that got bombed), but I sunk quite a few xAKs and xAKLs, and perhaps a DD or two.

Of course, I was only using them in this role because I knew that most of the heavy IJN stuff was damaged or sunk and I wasn't in any danger of losing 50+ planes and pilots in a single strike to either fighter cover or heavy flak (from CAs, BBs, CVs). I'll try to remember to attach some results when I get home tonight ;).


Lok, very cool results. This whole post will make me stop and re-think things. A few comments.

1. They had to get pretty dang close for your fighters to reach. Not sure in a PBEM that will happen.
2. Having a glut of units in 1942 is something in my PBEMs I know nothing about ....[:@] I am allows short of fighter airframes. Pilots, no problem as my reserve is busting at the seam with high Air skill pilots waiting for a ride.
3. Did you have bombers there as well for LowNavB? I am really working hard in my PBEMs on that ever-so-slow-to-increase skill to get up, and wondering how well it would do compared to the fighter NavB.

Thanks folks for all the wonder insight!



Lokasenna -> RE: Fighter Bombers on NavB (8/17/2012 4:43:30 AM)

Yeah, P-39s and P-40Es have pretty short range. 4 hexes? In a PBEM, I'd expect to only be able to get that sort of strike off once - at least in quantity. But against an unprotected invasion fleet or one screened only by light surface ships...

It is worth repeating that my strikes were against the AI. The planes were based at Port Moresby, and the AI kept trying to land at Lae and Milne Bay. I did it some more over by Balikpapan. Sadly, I've deleted the .txt files before October 42 already (sooo many files...), but now that I'm able to look at the sunk ships in Tracker I can say that I've sunk 2 E's, 1 PB, 1 AG, 5 xAKs, and 2 xAKLs with 500-lb GP bombs. Only 81 VP, but troops went down with those AKs... Also, the P-39s and P-40s carry 500 lb. GP bombs, not 250! I've always hated the results from 250's, it's pretty much impossible to sink anything with them.



HansBolter -> RE: Fighter Bombers on NavB (8/17/2012 11:56:26 AM)

P-39s are best used on Straf (100 ft) rather than LowNav (1000 ft).

They deliver 500 lb bombs, 37mm shells and MG rounds.

They are simply devastating against non-armored shipping.



crsutton -> RE: Fighter Bombers on NavB (8/17/2012 2:12:45 PM)

Late war and virtually every Allied naval and army fighter carries one or two 1,000 bombs and you get a ton of them. I was not doing it but am now taking a little more time and training all my fighter pilots in low naval-especially marine and navy. Corsairs and hellcats carry two big bombs each. That is more than a helldiver.

However, you still need escort. If they are naval bombing at low level and get caught by fighters, they will still get chewed up. Some of KB is still out there so I am thinking of just putting all fighters on my CVEs with pilots trained in low naval as well as air combat.

I am not training them up too high in low naval. Just around the 55-60 level to save time. You get enough planes that you are going to get your hits.



KPAX -> RE: Fighter Bombers on NavB (8/17/2012 4:30:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Late war and virtually every Allied naval and army fighter carries one or two 1,000 bombs and you get a ton of them. I was not doing it but am now taking a little more time and training all my fighter pilots in low naval-especially marine and navy. Corsairs and hellcats carry two big bombs each. That is more than a helldiver.

However, you still need escort. If they are naval bombing at low level and get caught by fighters, they will still get chewed up. Some of KB is still out there so I am thinking of just putting all fighters on my CVEs with pilots trained in low naval as well as air combat.

I am not training them up too high in low naval. Just around the 55-60 level to save time. You get enough planes that you are going to get your hits.


Very nice discussion, gave me a lot to think about. My PBEMs are in early 1942 so plenty of time to get things set up.

As a side note, would it just be better to take off the DBs, later in the war, from the CVs and just use a set of fighters on NavB?



crsutton -> RE: Fighter Bombers on NavB (8/17/2012 5:14:09 PM)

That is my thinking but I have not tried it enough to see how accurate they are versus the standard DB. But considering the dual role they can play it might be a good trade off.



Balou -> RE: Fighter Bombers on NavB (8/17/2012 7:51:33 PM)

Are DBs only good at dive bombing ? What happens if trained in lowN?



KPAX -> RE: Fighter Bombers on NavB (8/17/2012 8:07:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Balou

Are DBs only good at dive bombing ? What happens if trained in lowN?


Not really a reason to LowNavB with them. They have a bonus to dive bomb.

Plus LowNavB will take flak damage at a higher level.

I am also pretty sure they would have a reduced payload since they are not Attack Bomers.

They can be effective for airfield/port bombing. Consider setting one of those two up as the secondary mission.



Dan Nichols -> RE: Fighter Bombers on NavB (8/17/2012 10:06:46 PM)

I am sure that there is a difference between Fighters carrying bombs and Fighter-Bombers. I am pretty sure that the code treats them a bit different, especially at low altitudes.



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