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joeyeti -> Wiki pages - (edit) at Wikispot (8/15/2012 8:31:53 PM)

Hi folks,

seeing that fellow 4X games have their own (more or less decent) Wiki pages and also keeping in mind the last attempt at Wikia from 2010 (which is abandoned and inactual for a long time now), I do wonder - would a Wiki page be a relevant addition to the Forums, the Galactopedia inside the game and the Manual?

Would people be willing to participate in its creation (even after the initial hype fades away and dirty work remains)?

What could a Wiki hold that the game or the forums do not readily provide in a comprehensive yet readable way?

EDIT:
Link to the new Distant Worlds Wiki - www.distant-worlds.wikispot.org



Anthropoid -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/16/2012 1:26:11 AM)

Seems like the in game thing is sufficient to me. There are a few minor things like, how to build spies, that continue to elude me but then I've only been playing it a few days really.



jpwrunyan -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/16/2012 3:00:47 AM)

The galactopedia is an utter joke. There is so much relavent game info that is simply nonexistant there. A wiki would be a welcome resource. And hopefully it could share the dame heirarchical format as the galactopedia so the devs might freely lift entries from it to put into future releases.

Examples of things not in the galactopedia that should be:
Does ship size affect combat?
What is the relationship between population and planet size (other than moar is biggar!)
How do you read the research screen?
What is the mining cap on planets?
Does planet quality affect max population?
What is the relationship of planet quality, suze, development and revenue?
Is there a convenient list of racial troop strengths?
If I have more than one wonder on a planet or a wonder on a planet with ruins, what is my development bonus?
How does tourism work on colonies?
Better yet, how exactly does tourism work?
A teekan, a shakturi, and a human are all on a boat at sea, what is the punchline of this joke?



joeyeti -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/16/2012 8:30:28 AM)

Then I have another question - who knows these details apart maybe from the devs?
Are they accessible somehow, or would we have to chase the dev team for any such info and be dependant on their free time and willingness?




Modest -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/16/2012 12:31:16 PM)

Well... Some of this things are accesible here, on this forum - I remember at least that the science screen was nicely explained by Nedrer (or something like that). But most of this, if we want to know we need to ask dev team, or play with editor and metodicaly check how some changes in one stats are influencing other stats. That would be a lot of work, guesing and testing. Of course there may be other options unknow to me.



jpwrunyan -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/17/2012 2:04:34 AM)

Most of those questions i already know the answer to but they should have been in the galactopedia. Its great to have a community like this but when I am away from the internet the lousy galactopedia is all I have. You might ask how a wiki would be any better and I have two answers:
1) A wiki is organized for finding information. This forum is not.
2) My goal for a wiki is to serve as a catalyst for improving the in-game documentation.



joeyeti -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/17/2012 8:27:09 AM)

1) Yep, for me a specialized Wiki is always a reference book on a game (if the content is there) and when there is no Wiki or I am searching for something even more granular, I browse forums (but with good Wikies I mostly do not have to).

2) And yep again - I always admired dev teams that made their Wiki early in the development process to document the game features. This way it is all written down as reference material and can be accessed for detailed info if a player needs it...


a) Would it make sense do duplicate the Galactopedia information to the wiki?

I am aware that the Galactopedia is quite text heavy and having it directly in-game does lessen the need to have it on another online source. But then again, maybe you are not playing the game on your commute and would like to check some info inbetween plays...

b) Then there is also the "legal" question - would the devs allow replicating the Galactopedia to an online form to basically make it freely accessible?



WoodMan -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/17/2012 11:56:26 AM)

A wiki would be great *if* people were dedicated enough to make it work. I'm not sure the community is big enough [:@]



Arcatus -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/20/2012 9:41:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

A wiki would be great *if* people were dedicated enough to make it work. I'm not sure the community is big enough [:@]



Yea, but "just" having things like the tech-tree available online would be a huge step in the right direction.

Is it possible that matrix games would host a wiki? I am sure there are other games that have similar a discussion




joeyeti -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/20/2012 9:47:08 AM)

I guess it depends on the dedication that Matrix would want to put into supporting the Wiki...

Either they would say "We host it, you create it" - if they trust the community that much, or they would perhaps have to contribute some too to maintain a certain quality, if they would dedicate resources for creating it in the first place... And there is also the precedence of hosting Wikies for other games, if they would do for DW.


As per the Tech Tree part - yep, that would be a great resource...



jpwrunyan -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/20/2012 10:38:04 AM)

Starting with the in game entries as the initial wiki would also give a good jumping off point since we could start adding minor things to the entries instead of writing everything from scratch. Surely this forum has volunteer moderators. I am sure someones would be willing to moderate a wiki here. Like I said before, matrix should view it as an oportunity to crowd source their documentation. Technical writing isnt easy or cheap. Also it would give people something constructive to do with their time instead of complaining about price and asking why the game isnt on steam.



joeyeti -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/20/2012 4:16:41 PM)

Folks, for what it's worth, I have started a Wiki already (while asking about it here), just to see, if I can get it all sorted out.

True, it is much work to be progressed into a useful resource, but at least it's a free endeavor :)

You can find my current efforts below. So far only a few pages were started, mainly as a proof of concept (Ackdarians, Research and Technology, Game Features, Game Interface...) - basically all fully underlined links are working pages. Feel free to comment. 

distant-worlds.wikispot.org



Pipewrench -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/20/2012 8:09:00 PM)

Great work joeyeti,

Just a small question.

Is the wiki for distant worlds or for distant-worlds legends. I want to make sure if I start putting in some information I am commenting on the correct version so a newcomer does not get lost.



Arcatus -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/20/2012 8:28:00 PM)

Nice initiative.

But please - no silly text on the first page. (or on any page) [:-]

I had some fun on the sand-box. Take a look at my suggestion there.



joeyeti -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/20/2012 8:41:14 PM)

pipewrench,

Distant Worlds Legends (made it more clear on the front page). I somehow take Legends as "the game" :) - true, some players play ROTS, or even vanilla, but I wanted to make the Wiki the "latest" experience.

Arcatus,

sure, the silly comments are a joke attempt, nothing definite (and they do not fit with the rest anyway, so will delete them).

The research bulbs are nice, will see about their incorporation...



joeyeti -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/21/2012 3:53:44 PM)

pipewrench,

nice editing :)

I have added some on my own, mostly started the Tech Trees section and tweaked the Research page and Research Screen page.



unclean -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/22/2012 2:33:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jpwrunyan
Examples of things not in the galactopedia that should be:
Does ship size affect combat?
What is the relationship between population and planet size (other than moar is biggar!)
How do you read the research screen?
What is the mining cap on planets?
Does planet quality affect max population?
What is the relationship of planet quality, suze, development and revenue?
Is there a convenient list of racial troop strengths?
If I have more than one wonder on a planet or a wonder on a planet with ruins, what is my development bonus?
How does tourism work on colonies?
Better yet, how exactly does tourism work?
A teekan, a shakturi, and a human are all on a boat at sea, what is the punchline of this joke?

This is a really good list, I have the answers to a few of them bookmarked at least. I think there's answers to a few more floating around somewhere but yeah screw the rest of them, figuring it all out is insane.
Resource Extraction Cap
How research works
Troop Strength

I don't think the galactopedia really gets into the details of the private sector either. You can figure it out decently enough by playing but I remember it being pretty confusing at first.

Also a couple of really good guides
Quick strategy guide
How to fleet posture



jpwrunyan -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/22/2012 3:20:36 AM)

I happen to be really busy this month at work and also moving, but otherwise I would copy the current galactopedia entries to the wiki. So please everyone keep your enthusiasm on it until I can start helping.



joeyeti -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/28/2012 9:44:24 PM)

Folks,

I tried to summarize the Research and Technology page on the Wiki - particularly the Research Base overview - into comprehensible text. Can someone please tell me if it is understandable, also with the examples?

The "Adjusted Research Potential" is my term describing the same as the "Total Research Capability" used in an older thread by Nedrear - basically just to avoid too similar abbreviations. It is true that ARP can be done without, but sometimes you might use it to describe your full empire potential with racial and governmental bonuses applied...


(I am waiting for my 10 posts to be able to send in links, so for now here you go a CODE:) 

distant-worlds.wikispot.org/Research_and_Technology



bryanhbell -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/28/2012 10:43:28 PM)

Nice work, joeyeti! I've added a link to it on the Distant Worlds subreddit I recently started.

I'm curious, though. Why did you choose to create a new Wiki Spot site instead of simply updating and adding to the existing Wikia site?



jpwrunyan -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/29/2012 2:38:35 AM)

Is the Wiki Spot site not better? Thats good enough reason for me.



bryanhbell -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/29/2012 4:39:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jpwrunyan
Is the Wiki Spot site not better? Thats good enough reason for me.


I agree that the new site is already better in terms of content. I don't know if the Wiki Spot engine is any better or worse than Wikia's. That's the part I'm trying to understand. I'm unfamiliar with Wiki Spot. Almost all game wikis use Wikia, but I don't know if that's just due to convention or if it's because there's some advantage to hosting game-related wikis there. Obviously, joeyeti made a decision to put his content in a new place rather than fixing up the old one. I was just trying to understand the rationale behind relocating.

I'd hate to see him (and others) put lots of effort into a wiki on Wiki Spot only to discover later that they need to move it for some reason. Better to settle this now while the DW wiki is still young.



joeyeti -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/29/2012 6:45:49 AM)

bryan,

I did some research when I was deciding where to put the Wiki. And yes, I saw the original one on Wikia.

The reasons for choosing Wikispot were mainly:
- no limit on users for free
- no Ads (this was my rule #1)
- standalone implementation, not requiring you to have a hosting site and your own Wiki installation
- some other minor things I just right now forgot about :)

Wikia is bloated and too "commercial" for my taste - ads flying all over the place and the like. Maybe there is a way to have it witout ads, but this is mostly a paid feature on other Wikis.

It is true that I could have widened my research and perhaps found a free hosting service to where I could install my own MediaWiki engine - this would be the best solution as MediaWiki is much more powerful than Wikispot and its syntax is standardized and more widely supported - but so far I settled for this.

I have already asked on the main Matrix forum if Matrix would perhaps consider having their own Wiki portal for their games, from which they could branch off any Wiki for one of their games if the community wanted to make one... Erik Rutins replied:

quote:

"We do have a few wikis, but no overarching site. I'll bring up the idea internally, thanks for proposing it."


So we might get up one day hopefully and find that Matrix has their own ;)


As per a possible content migration - it is not that hard. The formatting is mostly similar to MediaWiki with some minor changes, which could be transformed on-the-fly. True, you would need to reupload all images to the new Wiki, but given say 3 people, that is also easily achievable.

The main thing with any Wiki is filling it up :)
Any formatting can be done post-edit, so the content is the most important thing there is...



bryanhbell -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/29/2012 8:33:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: joeyeti
bryan,

I did some research when I was deciding where to put the Wiki...


Thanks for the detailed response! This is exactly the information I was seeking. It sounds like you gave this some real thought and made a wise, informed decision. Kudos to you! As far as I'm concerned, it's full speed ahead -- not that you need my permission :)

I'd like to help add content to the wiki but I am quite the newbie with this game. Participating in this project might help me learn the game, though.

I could at least help with transporting text from the Galactopedia into the wiki, as some folks here have discussed. However, do you think this will be ok with Code Force and Matrix? I don't know what kind of copyright concerns they may have about their in-game content.



jpwrunyan -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/29/2012 11:32:31 AM)

Personally, the lack of ads is a big plus for me because it makes browsing easier on 3g network.



joeyeti -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/29/2012 8:03:29 PM)

bryan,

you are welcome :)

I too am a noob in the game, so far only started two or three quick games to get the hang of it and planning soon to start a fourth to do the same and potentially more... I have yet to explore all depths of all the screens (not necessarily all of them, as the best start is on almost full Automation anyway and until I get to designing my own ships...) and get to know all the interdependencies.

That is also the reason I started the Wiki, because when you read a lot on these fora, you tend to want to summarize the information spread through many topics into comprehensive and readable pages, that are easily accessible. And you tend to forget where you have seen it, so you need to get back to more reading and browsing.

And I like to "do the background stuff" too :)


As per the "copying the info from Galactopedia" - I am not sure either... Does someone know whom we should PM with that question?



Erik Rutins -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/29/2012 10:12:07 PM)

Hi guys,

Thanks for creating this. If there's anything we can do to help, let me know. You can e-mail me at erikr@matrixgames.com or post here.

Regards,

- Erik



bryanhbell -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/29/2012 10:49:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi guys,

Thanks for creating this. If there's anything we can do to help, let me know. You can e-mail me at erikr@matrixgames.com or post here.

Regards,

- Erik


Thanks for the support! May we have permission to include in-game text and images such as those found in the Galactopedia in the wiki?



Erik Rutins -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/30/2012 1:18:30 AM)

Sure, go ahead.



bryanhbell -> RE: Wiki pages - are they needed besides Galactopedia? (8/30/2012 1:38:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Sure, go ahead.


Thanks :)



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