Lenningrad Defensive (Full Version)

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turtlefang -> Lenningrad Defensive (8/29/2012 1:49:47 AM)

Can anyone provide some good advice on defending Lenningrad in 41 as the Soviets? how? how much? and when it may get to expensive?



hfarrish -> RE: Lenningrad Defensive (8/29/2012 2:12:32 AM)

I don't think there is one set strategy - a LOT depends on the skill level of your opponent. I think the biggest mistake to avoid is trying to defend along the Luga line the whole length from Novgorod to the sea - most of these units on the west end will just be total pocket bait.

Otherwise, against all but the best German players I wouldn't worry too much about the right hook South of Ilmen and would focus more on building a line from Novgorod north to Leningrad proper. Tying him up for a couple turns around Pskov is helpful as well...use the swamps to your advantage.

At the end of the day it probably can't be saved, so try to just hold long enough to get industry out and to avoid losing 100s of thousands of men in pockets (even in Leningrad proper)...don't forget the sea evac option from Leningrad itself. Anything over holding it past turn 12 is total gravy IMO.

Personally I would not commit very much extra to the Leningrad defense beyond what is necessary to build a decent Novgorod/Leningrad line...others may disagree with that though.



Flaviusx -> RE: Lenningrad Defensive (8/29/2012 2:59:43 AM)

Defend it heavily from the getgo and start railing most of your reserve armies on turns 1-2. You can build a strong defense line around Pskov and various swamp and rough hexes south and east of it. You'll have to keep on reinforcing it to build further lines to the rear of that. Don't bother defending the whole of the luga once you lose that position -- the western end of it is a deathtrap that can be pocketed by a drive straight north to the baltic. Instead, the next fallback position is Leningrad to Novgorod, and also south of lake Ilmen if your opponent is Pelton. I actually try to man things in strength all the way down to Vitebsk.

Make sure to contain the Finns up north. This is essential. If you decide to runaway to the Svir you will regret it.



Klydon -> RE: Lenningrad Defensive (8/29/2012 3:24:30 AM)

I am currently messing around with a German vs AI game and I sort of like what the Russians have done.

The AI stacked 3 deep in the city and in the hexes around it fast. Instead of going with a thin continuous line along the Volkov, the AI intially stacked 3 units every other hex to build strong points and then filled in later.

The result is pretty high fort levels due to the extra units early. It won't stop the Germans, but at the very least will cost them more casualties and time. The mistake the AI made (imo) is they left too much in the pocket when Leningrad got cut off. I think a human could time it better, but it is tricky and difficult regardless. You need the extra troops to get the forts built up (especially the back door and port next to Leningrad) and then need to withdraw a fair amount to avoid losing too much, but leave enough to offer good resistance.

To me, the whole goal of the Leningrad defense is to keep the Germans honest on how much force they are committing there and also to tie up PG4 long enough so it can't really have a big impact in the Moscow area before winter along with not getting too many units trapped and destroyed.



hfarrish -> RE: Lenningrad Defensive (8/29/2012 3:32:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Make sure to contain the Finns up north. This is essential. If you decide to runaway to the Svir you will regret it.


I totally agree with this...but I probably disagree with railing a whole bunch of high value units up to Leningrad. As Klydon said, its really a confidence game to make sure that the German doesn't reduce his commitment and I don't think its necessary to pull in the reserve armies to achieve that. A couple of divisions maybe...



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