RE: How Did Clancy Know? (Full Version)

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Bullwinkle58 -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (8/30/2012 7:22:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lcp Purcell

An interesting note, back when I was in the Marine Corps, the Commander of Charlie Company came back from leave, then let it slip that he had spent the entire two weeks in a bar drinking with Tom Clancy. I believe this is his M.O. for getting secret info.
[:-]



I call sea story![8D]

(Where is the TINS?)



hkbhsi -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (8/30/2012 7:28:43 PM)

Like most here I think the Ryan saga went downhill pretty quickly after the first few books, as the plots become too stereotypized.
The worst offender of the lot is probably "The teeth of the tiger", with Ryan's sons, where the dialogues are bordeline racist.



Bullwinkle58 -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (8/30/2012 7:29:12 PM)

If anyone is really into "hard" technothrillers I would also recomend Eric L. Harry, especially "Arc Light." Eric was a short-term e-mail friend and we shared an agent for a time, but I don't think he writes anymore. He has a full time job as an international legal counsel in the petroleum industry. But he was very well-versed in military affairs when he was writing and his plots were very tight. He writes some of the best depictions of first-person close combat I've read from modern authors.

"Arc Light" is a WWIII novel with a scope to match RSR. "Invasion" is about a continental invasion of the USA. The premise is not as well done, but the setpiece scenes are excellent. Either of those I would recco.

http://www.amazon.com/Arc-Light-Eric-Harry/dp/1476702624/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1346351185&sr=8-7&keywords=eric+harry

is the "Arc Light" lisitng on Amazon. I don't know what's up with the price; mine is a regular pocketbook-sized version I paid $5 for back in the day. But you can read the customer reviews.



House Stark -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (8/30/2012 7:30:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I've read many Tom Clancy novels over the years. His early works were outstanding. His later works left much to be desired. His major character - Ryan - becomes Vice President of the United States. Is this just a coincidence? [:)]

Well, Ryan isn't that unusual of a last name. Still, the coincidence is an interesting find.



jeffk3510 -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (8/30/2012 8:25:55 PM)

I love his work.



LST Express -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (8/30/2012 10:09:52 PM)

Enjoyed his first few books but haven't bought books of that type in years.



Encircled -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (8/30/2012 10:53:59 PM)

Liked up to Rainbow Six

"Red Storm Rising" though is probably in my top ten book list



Canoerebel -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (8/30/2012 11:24:39 PM)

Yeah, Red Storm Rising is on my top ten list too (and I do actually have such a list, and have had it for about 25 years, with Red Storm Rising being the "newest" listing).



John 3rd -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (8/31/2012 12:10:24 AM)

I love the first 2/3 of his work. As said earlier I think Executive Orders is his finest work. Red October is great but EO is a HUGE book that covers so many timely topics to this day. The insights into the Secret Service and life in the White House were pretty interesting. AFTER EO I think it started going downhill. My Favorites would be:

1. EO
2. Red October
3. Without Remorse
4. Rainbow Six



PaxMondo -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (8/31/2012 5:07:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

I love his work.

+1

Have them all. Read them periodically. Pure fantasy fiction, but easy and relaxing while I'm on a stationary bike.



Lecivius -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (8/31/2012 4:50:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

If anyone is really into "hard" technothrillers I would also recomend Eric L. Harry, especially "Arc Light." Eric was a short-term e-mail friend and we shared an agent for a time, but I don't think he writes anymore. He has a full time job as an international legal counsel in the petroleum industry. But he was very well-versed in military affairs when he was writing and his plots were very tight. He writes some of the best depictions of first-person close combat I've read from modern authors.

"Arc Light" is a WWIII novel with a scope to match RSR. "Invasion" is about a continental invasion of the USA. The premise is not as well done, but the setpiece scenes are excellent. Either of those I would recco.

http://www.amazon.com/Arc-Light-Eric-Harry/dp/1476702624/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1346351185&sr=8-7&keywords=eric+harry

is the "Arc Light" lisitng on Amazon. I don't know what's up with the price; mine is a regular pocketbook-sized version I paid $5 for back in the day. But you can read the customer reviews.



I have this in my library, and I would recommend this as well.



d0mbo -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (8/31/2012 8:14:23 PM)

Ah! Larry Bond and Eric Harry. I have red all of their books (the military-techno ones that is)

Anyone know writers that write or have written similar books?

All time favorite was Vortex... mostly because that was my introduction to this genre. I guess I like hyptohetical wars. Thos don't actually kill people so that's a good thing ;) As someone else noted, that book might feel dated but since most people know their history well here, I think that can be overcome :)

Cheers,

d0mbo.





Chickenboy -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (8/31/2012 8:56:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I love the first 2/3 of his work. As said earlier I think Executive Orders is his finest work. Red October is great but EO is a HUGE book that covers so many timely topics to this day. The insights into the Secret Service and life in the White House were pretty interesting. AFTER EO I think it started going downhill. My Favorites would be:

1. EO
2. Red October
3. Without Remorse
4. Rainbow Six


All good books, but like Canoerebel, I was most transfixed by "Red Storm Rising". That was the first Clancy book I read and was hooked for a number of books thereafter.

Later books have been hit and miss affairs. His co-branded / co-authored books are rubbish.

In the same vein, this was my favorite "Conventional European WWIII" genre book:

[image]local://upfiles/6968/85C83F099A574BB3B7077FFBE175C2C4.jpg[/image]



Chickenboy -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (8/31/2012 8:58:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: d0mbo

Anyone know writers that write or have written similar books?



@ d0mbo: See my post about Coyle. Sword Point was readable too, IIRC.



John 3rd -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (8/31/2012 9:11:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I love the first 2/3 of his work. As said earlier I think Executive Orders is his finest work. Red October is great but EO is a HUGE book that covers so many timely topics to this day. The insights into the Secret Service and life in the White House were pretty interesting. AFTER EO I think it started going downhill. My Favorites would be:

1. EO
2. Red October
3. Without Remorse
4. Rainbow Six


All good books, but like Canoerebel, I was most transfixed by "Red Storm Rising". That was the first Clancy book I read and was hooked for a number of books thereafter.

Later books have been hit and miss affairs. His co-branded / co-authored books are rubbish.

In the same vein, this was my favorite "Conventional European WWIII" genre book:

[image]local://upfiles/6968/85C83F099A574BB3B7077FFBE175C2C4.jpg[/image]


Heck. I didn't even THINK of Red Storm. Add that to the list. FANTASTIC!



bush -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (9/1/2012 12:05:26 AM)

Both of the Coyle books mentioned were entertaining.



ilovestrategy -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (9/1/2012 1:39:43 AM)

The only book of his that ever liked was the Hunt for Red October. I read about three others and hated them. I must have read The Hunt for Red October at least five times though.



YankeeAirRat -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (9/1/2012 8:28:15 AM)

For some fun in the counterfactual side of the house look up Robert Conroy. He has a number of short novels based on a year and an event.

1901: Soma Crisis leads to Germany invading NY and Chesapeake Bay region to collapse the American Economy and force a turn over of Soma and some of the other recently won lands from the the Spanish side of the Hapsburg family.
1862: Trent Affair leads to the Royal Army and Royal Navy joining the side of the Confederate States. [This is pretty weak historically and story telling wise, but for a trashy beach/airplane/travel read it is better then nothing]
1945: The mutiny is able to occur and the Japanese military gains the throne but doesn't kill the Emperor. The invasion occurs and there are some pretty interesting scenes between Kamikaze heck to the destruction of a whole Japanese army via a nuclear device as they tried to cross the waters between Honsho and Kyushu and some famous leaders dying in cheap ways (think Patton's car crash death)
Red Inferno 1945: Instead of allowing the Soviets to have Berlin first, Turman authorizes a race to Berlin and the Soviet-American meeting at the Elbe instead of being Vodka and Coke is a trading of M4 Shermans vs T-34s and P-51s vs IL-2s. A surrounded Army Group near Potsdamn fights with the remains of a Panzer Division to hold off the Red Army and the rest of the Allied Exped Force trying to decide to stay at war or yield Germany as a buffer.
1942: Nagumo launches a third Strike and a month later forces intended for NG invade Hawaii. Doolittle Raid is against PH instead Tokyo and American forces left over from the invasion fight a guerillea campagin.

Those are just some his that I have read. A few more modern novels from different authors in the vein of Bond or Clancy include some of Ralph Peters early books before he really became a talking head. I have also read a few single shot authors with good stories in the same vien as RSR like "THe War that Never Was", where an author and his co-authors took the unclassified portions of some war games they played at places like the Naval War College and Air University lead to an interesting book where war breaks out in the late 80's early 90s. US Carriers are sunk, Russian bombers attack Alaska and French/Italian/American Marines invade Libya an cause Ghaddifi government to collapse. Those are but a few of the techno-thriller genre that I have read.



Encircled -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (9/1/2012 9:20:05 AM)

Though its in my top ten, my top ten also includes "The Authoriative Calvin and Hobbes", which might downplay its significance a tad.



warspite1 -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (9/1/2012 10:33:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: YankeeAirRat

1862: Trent Affair leads to the Royal Army and Royal Navy joining the side of the Confederate States. [This is pretty weak historically and story telling wise, but for a trashy beach/airplane/travel read it is better then nothing]

warspite1

Royal Army?



witpqs -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (9/1/2012 2:32:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: YankeeAirRat

1862: Trent Affair leads to the Royal Army and Royal Navy joining the side of the Confederate States. [This is pretty weak historically and story telling wise, but for a trashy beach/airplane/travel read it is better then nothing]

warspite1

Royal Army?

My apologies on behalf of my fellow Yankee... [:D]



warspite1 -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (9/1/2012 2:48:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: YankeeAirRat

1862: Trent Affair leads to the Royal Army and Royal Navy joining the side of the Confederate States. [This is pretty weak historically and story telling wise, but for a trashy beach/airplane/travel read it is better then nothing]

warspite1

Royal Army?

My apologies on behalf of my fellow Yankee... [:D]
warspite1

[;)]



YankeeAirRat -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (9/1/2012 4:41:04 PM)

Hey it was a late night with a sick baby. Most of the UK military that I have dealt with has been proceeded by the term "Royal" as in the Royal Marines, Royal Navy and Royal Air Force. So excuse my fuzzy brains and mistakes.



Justus2 -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (9/1/2012 5:03:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I love the first 2/3 of his work. As said earlier I think Executive Orders is his finest work. Red October is great but EO is a HUGE book that covers so many timely topics to this day. The insights into the Secret Service and life in the White House were pretty interesting. AFTER EO I think it started going downhill. My Favorites would be:

1. EO
2. Red October
3. Without Remorse
4. Rainbow Six


All good books, but like Canoerebel, I was most transfixed by "Red Storm Rising". That was the first Clancy book I read and was hooked for a number of books thereafter.

Later books have been hit and miss affairs. His co-branded / co-authored books are rubbish.

In the same vein, this was my favorite "Conventional European WWIII" genre book:

[image]local://upfiles/6968/85C83F099A574BB3B7077FFBE175C2C4.jpg[/image]


He had another called The Ten Thousand, which was good, interesting (if somewhat dated) premise - US forces deploy from Germany to Ukraine to secure nuclear weapons during government turmoil, new German leader (former Hitler Youth) tries to sieze the weapons that are flown back, and prevent the return of the US forces, so they have to fight their way back through Germany.



Chickenboy -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (9/1/2012 6:29:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: YankeeAirRat

Hey it was a late night with a sick baby. Most of the UK military that I have dealt with has been proceeded by the term "Royal" as in the Royal Marines, Royal Navy and Royal Air Force. So excuse my fuzzy brains and mistakes.


Hey, with all deference to YankeeAirRat, he DID say that it was a work of fiction, did he not? In this fictitious environment, there may very well have been a Royal Army. So there. [:'(]

Note to YankeeAirRat: Who's got your back, dude? [fist bump] [:D]



Chickenboy -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (9/1/2012 6:29:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

My apologies on behalf of my fellow Yankee... [:D]


By the way, I thought you were Argletonian?



witpqs -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (9/1/2012 6:34:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

My apologies on behalf of my fellow Yankee... [:D]


By the way, I thought you were Argletonian?

On the other side of the family!



US87891 -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (9/1/2012 6:37:51 PM)

I am a Harry Coyle fan. He was there and he got it right. See that some people like books about the details of warfare. This one isn’t fiction, it is factual. And it sits in the timeframe. Another Armor puke.
[image]local://upfiles/37114/30435681CF6D404CA11F61844F72BDE6.jpg[/image]
wrote the book when he was a Captain!!! Has a gift for words and ability to describe his perceptions, good and bad. This book is on the required reading list for my courses in military history.

Dan Bolger is now a Lt.Gen. Was Deputy CoS, US Army, and then CG, Transition Command, Afghanistan. Really nice guy and really sharp. Drinks Bourbon.



pompack -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (9/1/2012 7:04:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Biggus63

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lcp Purcell

An interesting note, back when I was in the Marine Corps, the Commander of Charlie Company came back from leave, then let it slip that he had spent the entire two weeks in a bar drinking with Tom Clancy. I believe this is his M.O. for getting secret info.
[:-]


I heard a story, possibly apocryphal, that after one of his early books came out he was invited to have a chat (the word I originally heard was 'debriefed') by one of the security agencies and asked to divulge where he'd come across much of the more esoteric information in the book. Maybe just a BS urban myth, who knows? I'd also heard about him picking that sort of info up hanging around in bars frequented by defence personnel.



True story. The problem was that he not only had rather precise technical details, he had the exact ops concept for a system that was still years away from being fielded. He then dressed up his next story with some similar technical stuff that was pure fantasy, i.e. something what was both technically and geometrically impossible, but it was in the same genre of the stuff that got him in the "debrief" to start with. Bound to be a true story because I got it drinking in a bar with a govie.



US87891 -> RE: How Did Clancy Know? (9/1/2012 7:23:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: YankeeAirRat
1862: Trent Affair leads to the Royal Army and Royal Navy joining the side of the Confederate States. [This is pretty weak historically and story telling wise, but for a trashy beach/airplane/travel read it is better then nothing]

A decent read, but with all due respect to CanoeRebel, not very compos mentos. Palmerston did indeed ask, after Trent, and got brought up short by his Ministers.

Clarendon (and then Shelburne) was pretty specific about the lack of deployable troops. All they could do was perhaps send 20,000 mixed regulars and territorials to Canada. That was about it.

There weren't no regulars available to go kiting about in the US South. There weren't no regulars available to do jack all, anywhere. The Turkish war was done, the troops were home, and the next time they had to do anything seriously intelligent was the Boer War, where they learned how to fight against a modern opponent.

If I was a Confederate, I would be thankful, but not very hopeful, for a British intervention.

Regards, Matt



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