Pirate Prank? Irritating (Full Version)

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Gargoil -> Pirate Prank? Irritating (8/30/2012 5:31:20 PM)

I have seen this happen several times, in past version and even now in the lates version of the game.

Earlier in the game I get a warning that one of my bases in under attack. I go to the location and find it is a Pirate Ship that is closing on my base (no shots fired yet). Its early, so I am relatively weak and I could use the pirates protection (and info). So I pay them off.

The take the money, but their ship continues to close on my base and begins firing. I immediately send a fleet, and it gets there with my base badly damaged but still alive. My fleet sits there in weapons range, but does nothing. The pirate finishes the base. And now the pirate and my fleet seem to happily abide by our protection agreement.

WTF?



oogs -> RE: Pirate Prank? Irritating (8/30/2012 6:26:04 PM)

It's a pirate. Why *wouldn't* they take your money and then still take what they want?

Sorry, I'm not trying to be an ass, but pirates by definition go against the social norms, including honoring deals. I would expect as much from them, and that is why I arm all my stations.



Gargoil -> RE: Pirate Prank? Irritating (8/30/2012 6:30:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: oogs

It's a pirate. Why *wouldn't* they take your money and then still take what they want?

Sorry, I'm not trying to be an ass, but pirates by definition go against the social norms, including honoring deals. I would expect as much from them, and that is why I arm all my stations.


Reasonable enough - but why would my fleet just let it continue to pound my base? If they are breaking the agreement, so be it. But the fleet and the pirate act as if the agreement is in place, all except for the base it is killing.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Pirate Prank? Irritating (8/30/2012 6:36:46 PM)

Are you sure the attacking pirate was from the same pirate faction that you paid off?

Regards,

- Erik



Gargoil -> RE: Pirate Prank? Irritating (8/30/2012 6:44:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Are you sure the attacking pirate was from the same pirate faction that you paid off?

Regards,

- Erik



Oh yes, quite sure - I check the name on the ship to the diplomacy screen. And at the time, that ship was the only pirate vessel I had happened on (it was very early in the game).

Since I have your ear, Erik, more interesting detail is that I used to see this a lot in some early patches, then in some recent patches it seem to stop (I pay the pirate and he holds fire). I just updated to the latest offical patch before starting this game (and using the Picard Era Mod) and it happened.

BTW, I have been a big fan of this game since its inception - fantastic work - but it is sooooo good, nobody is going to leave you alone, its just too good for people to settle with how it is without wanting MORE! LOL.



Haree78 -> RE: Pirate Prank? Irritating (8/30/2012 7:00:19 PM)

I have never seen that happen in a LOT of games, that's why I would have asked the same question Erik did. What version are you running?



Erik Rutins -> RE: Pirate Prank? Irritating (8/30/2012 7:00:27 PM)

Hi Gargoil,

Thank you for the kind words. [8D] If you have a save file that can help us see that in action, please go ahead and upload it.

Regards,

- Erik



Gargoil -> RE: Pirate Prank? Irritating (8/30/2012 7:09:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi Gargoil,

Thank you for the kind words. [8D] If you have a save file that can help us see that in action, please go ahead and upload it.

Regards,

- Erik


I was reading the forums and started this thread because I had been meaning to mention this observation for quite some time now. But alas, I have played that game many hours past the point it happened, and at work right now anyway[8D].

I am sure to start more games, if it happens again, I will save immediately and upload it to you.

Thanks for your response!



dostillevi -> RE: Pirate Prank? Irritating (8/31/2012 2:33:44 PM)

You can also add a few blasters and shielding to your mining base designs and they will never get popped by pirates.



Gargoil -> RE: Pirate Prank? Irritating (8/31/2012 3:25:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dostillevi

You can also add a few blasters and shielding to your mining base designs and they will never get popped by pirates.


Remember I said this happened was quite early in the game. No matter what design I would have created for my mining bases, this base would still be the only default design. So there was no way to avoid the "popping" by these pirates.

That reminds me of another issue I have been wanting to post about. I hope Erik is still following this thread:

Would it be feasible to begin a game by preloaded Ship and Base design instead of using the default designs?




Apheirox -> RE: Pirate Prank? Irritating (8/31/2012 6:33:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Haree78

I have never seen that happen in a LOT of games, that's why I would have asked the same question Erik did. What version are you running?


Actually it happens regularly in my experience: If the pirates were about to attack by the time you paid the 'protection' they will often continue and destroy their target, just as the OP describes.



Gargoil -> RE: Pirate Prank? Irritating (8/31/2012 7:50:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Apheirox


quote:

ORIGINAL: Haree78

I have never seen that happen in a LOT of games, that's why I would have asked the same question Erik did. What version are you running?


Actually it happens regularly in my experience: If the pirates were about to attack by the time you paid the 'protection' they will often continue and destroy their target, just as the OP describes.


Thanks for verifying the experience. The oddest thing is that my fleet and the pirate act as if the protection agreement IS in effect, except for the poor base being destroyed.



Pipewrench -> RE: Pirate Prank? Irritating (8/31/2012 9:02:01 PM)

I have seen this as well but I always assumed it was a pirate faction being paid to attack me. Diabolic and underhanded results are always followed by wtf!



dostillevi -> RE: Pirate Prank? Irritating (9/4/2012 9:15:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gargoil


quote:

ORIGINAL: dostillevi

You can also add a few blasters and shielding to your mining base designs and they will never get popped by pirates.


Remember I said this happened was quite early in the game. No matter what design I would have created for my mining bases, this base would still be the only default design. So there was no way to avoid the "popping" by these pirates.

That reminds me of another issue I have been wanting to post about. I hope Erik is still following this thread:

Would it be feasible to begin a game by preloaded Ship and Base design instead of using the default designs?




Fair enough. I always start on the most basic colony setting so rarely have more than a small handful of existing mining bases. Before I even unpause the game I load custom made designs for all ships and bases, so all future mining bases are protected. 4 maxos blasters and 4 shields might sound like a little overkill, but you'll not lose a single one of these to pirates for much of the early-mid game and you won't have to spend money and resources on ships to defend them.



Jim D Burns -> RE: Pirate Prank? Irritating (9/4/2012 8:40:26 PM)

I’ve seen this behavior occasionally too. If Matrix wants to see this behavior occur more often so they can bug test it, I’ve noticed it happens a lot more often when transitioning from a protection agreement to an alliance.

If you fail to accept the alliance soon enough, pirates will begin attacking your stuff in the system with their ships. If you wait a while until the pirate attacks are well underway and then accept the alliance offer, very often the pirates will finish off their targets and any new stuff arriving to the area will allow it to happen if they arrive after you accepted the agreement.

It doesn’t happen all the time, but it is often enough that you can reliably use this method for bug testing.

Jim



Rustyallan -> RE: Pirate Prank? Irritating (9/4/2012 11:53:59 PM)

Just started playing DW again and this has been bugging me since I've seen very similar behavior and it seems to be a diplomacy issue.

If I'm at war and the other party asks for peace (I never ask, let them beg) and I accept, then any ships that are already in combat or en route to their target will continue the attack. These are all fully automated fleets. Of course I then get a bad reputation for launching cowardly unprovoked attacks and they start crying about me attacking them.

I haven't paid enough attention, but I think the opposing fleets will do the same and let the bloodthirst cause static on the line when they receive the cease fire order. [:D]

So the question becomes, is this a bug or design?



jpinard -> RE: Pirate Prank? Irritating (9/5/2012 10:55:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rustyallan

Just started playing DW again and this has been bugging me since I've seen very similar behavior and it seems to be a diplomacy issue.

If I'm at war and the other party asks for peace (I never ask, let them beg) and I accept, then any ships that are already in combat or en route to their target will continue the attack. These are all fully automated fleets. Of course I then get a bad reputation for launching cowardly unprovoked attacks and they start crying about me attacking them.

I haven't paid enough attention, but I think the opposing fleets will do the same and let the bloodthirst cause static on the line when they receive the cease fire order. [:D]

So the question becomes, is this a bug or design?



Whoa... So if you attack a pirate station you're at peace with you get negative reputation? How do we see the rep change when we take out a pirate?



Bingeling -> RE: Pirate Prank? Irritating (9/5/2012 11:03:08 AM)

No, he has the problem when a war ends. Which is probably the same problem as seen when a pirate don't stop his attack when they are paid off.



jpwrunyan -> RE: Pirate Prank? Irritating (9/5/2012 4:35:25 PM)

Pay protection after the ship starts attacking the base (shots fired). Use bases that have no weapons so you don't get confused by the ship retreating because of low shields. It happens all the time. It NEVER happened before the latest patch.



Rustyallan -> RE: Pirate Prank? Irritating (9/6/2012 12:35:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

No, he has the problem when a war ends. Which is probably the same problem as seen when a pirate don't stop his attack when they are paid off.



Correct. That is what I meant. It definitely seems to be related as I would expect paying protection and calling a cease fire to cause current firefights to end.

The earlier posts mentioned that the pirate ship was still on the way to the base when protection was paid and continued the attack even after. This is, diplomacy-wise, the same thing that I've seen happen when ending a war with another race. ships engaged/fleets on the way don't get the message.



Gareth_Bryne -> RE: Pirate Prank? Irritating (9/7/2012 3:47:15 PM)

As strange as it may seem, it's kinda realistic. In a conflict, both sides often keep shooting at each other for some time after a ceasefire agreement. Communication lag...



Rustyallan -> RE: Pirate Prank? Irritating (9/7/2012 11:18:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gareth_Bryne

As strange as it may seem, it's kinda realistic. In a conflict, both sides often keep shooting at each other for some time after a ceasefire agreement. Communication lag...

I agree. What bugged me is the reputation hits for sneak attacks and that I once had a fleet set to gather and attack, the cease fire apparently happened during the gather stage and it then crossed my empire to attack a target on the far side. I was able to notice and stop it manually. Overall, it's amusing in a mildly frustrating way. (rep hits). I just figured it's because of overly aggressive commanders with static in their ears due to the bloodlust.



Bingeling -> RE: Pirate Prank? Irritating (9/8/2012 5:22:12 PM)

I don't usually pay off pirates but I tried in a new game now.

The pirate attacked a pirate base, my starting ships was on route to kill it when I bribed them. My ships stopped, the pirate did not, and the mining base was destroyed.

I believe this is pretty predictable...



Bingeling -> RE: Pirate Prank? Irritating (9/8/2012 10:40:48 PM)

The utter pirate prank.

A pirate gang surrenders, and I decide to keep their base as it is a handy fuel spot (New name: "Pirate Fuel 1", to make it easy to spot new surrenders). There is one ship at the base, and I order it to retire.

Some time later my gas mine is under attack as usual. It was the pirate ship I took control of with the base... Never have defending a gas mine been that easy "Retire".

There is obviously some point in a ships decision making process where a shift of statuses between empires is not caught in time (in the degree that a pirate faction is an empire).



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