Disable Tech Trading? (Full Version)

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vince0018 -> Disable Tech Trading? (10/8/2012 2:31:44 AM)

Some people talk about how unbalanced tech trading is in the game,
but I was wondering if there was a relatively easy way to completely disable it, without causing
compatibility issues or breaking the game?

Hopefully this will be added as an actual feature in the game down the line, but it's been bothering me since
whenever I play I don't want to get all that free tech through tech trade, but at the same time if I don't,
I assume the AI is, giving me a disadvantage.

I mean there's a reason I have research speed set to the slowest, and being able to double my research
more or less, every time I research something new, by trading it with an ally who has also researched something,
just rubs me the wrong way.

Anyways I couldn't find a mod for this and thought I'd at least try asking, maybe
even get some of your thoughts on it.

Vince



solops -> RE: Disable Tech Trading? (10/9/2012 12:40:25 AM)

An excellent suggestion.



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Disable Tech Trading? (10/9/2012 11:11:11 PM)

It is called house rules.

Do not use it.



tjhkkr -> RE: Disable Tech Trading? (10/10/2012 2:23:22 AM)

I would hate to loose it; if you can just not use the option...
If you research is on a par with the other raises, you should not be too far ahead or behind... unless you are trying to trade with the Mechnoids or the Shakturi... and I have never been able to trade with the Mechnoids...



solops -> RE: Disable Tech Trading? (10/10/2012 2:53:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

It is called house rules.
Do not use it.


Certainly. But, without having an option to disable tech trading built into the game, the AI players can still trade tech even if you do not. Personally, I never sell tech, but sometimes I buy it, especially with space stations that are in alien territory, causing bad karma diplomatically....heheheheheheh......



Haree78 -> RE: Disable Tech Trading? (10/10/2012 6:55:03 AM)

It is a talk of much debate in the development forums. It is something that has got less powerful since the original version but is still too powerful, I agree.
For now I use very minimal trading to have a more challenging game, but it does take away some of the game.

I am a champion of allowing tech trading but to put in such steps as limiting the amount of friendliness you can buy with bribes and trades based on how long you have been in treatise. So you can gain say (Random number chosen alert!) 10 happiness from bribes/trades from someone with no treaty. Another 10 if you have had Free Trade for more than 3 years, and then another 10 from say 5 years of MDP. This would of course be better if it both scaled up in small steps, not just 0 to 10 after 5 years and the time I stated was actually based on the races caution factor. We could then further this to allow tech trading only between races you have an MDP/Free Trade for a certain amount of time. Perhaps the AI would trade his techs at high value at first slowly diminishing based on how long treatise exist and caution factor.
In addition I think there should be perhaps a big reputation hit in any negative action against an Empire you have had an MDP with within a certain amount of time. As long as they didn't take action first of course.

Also I have suggested such steps as tech being stolen by undercover agents when tech is traded, or/and that all other races get a certain amount of the tech traded given for free. Fluff wise this would be like the proliferation of knowledge about technology makes moving in to that area of tech much easier due to general industrial espionage etc.
I would also like to see such steps as Empires greatly increasing the value their tech is worth to the player if the player is higher technology level than them.
Tech level should be measured by which is the highest laser/phaser tech + highest missile/torpedo/rail gun + highest shield etc etc. Not by total researched which includes branches that have no use or redundant tech.

I want to see tech trading still be a viable part of gameplay but I believe these sorts of changes would mean that someone who tried to game the AI or go to far would find themselves making too many alliances, taking big rep hits if they did anything against those they traded with and begin to not be able to trade when they became too intimidating. The scaling value of tech based on player research level would mean they would never get too far ahead and if they were aggressive as well as trying to con the AI in to trading they would have the whole galaxy breathing down their neck while not having as much of a lead as can be possible right now.


In reply to the original post this isn't moddable.

PS all times in years or whatever I use in these suggestions are wild arse guesses. In all my time playing Distant Worlds I never pay attention to the span of time so I don't have a clue what are reasonable values.



Darkspire -> RE: Disable Tech Trading? (10/10/2012 8:30:59 AM)

My 50ps worth [:'(]

So the main reason for tech trading causing problems is the money gained?

Do away with the money gain then?

Why not put the tech into groups?
You could have each group contain a specific amount of techs from each level of the tech tree.

Example;

Tech group A contains all of the first level of the tech tree. Group B the second level and so on.
To make a trade for an item in group A, you would offer something from your own group A as a swap.
To make a trade for a group B item, you could have the choice to swap one of your own group B items or two of your group A items.
To trade for Group C, one from your own Group C or two group B's or three group A's
Etc

I realise the juggling of the value of the swaps would have to be carefully worked out but by grouping the tech items the items within those groups would then become the currency, bit like a pound (as a group) could be split into two 50p's or 5 20p's etc.

Darkspire



Harrs -> RE: Disable Tech Trading? (10/10/2012 12:49:53 PM)

Just make it much more expensive to trade.. Espicially if the relationship is bad..

As Kiadan race I always hate the Boskar.. But they gave me like 10 millions in one game.. And I could kill them with my new fleet..
So they gave me the money for their death..
If it would be 10 times more expensive for.. me.. I couldnt attack.. And he would have the same tech like me.



solops -> RE: Disable Tech Trading? (10/10/2012 2:44:47 PM)

Regardless of how one might "fix" tech trading, I'd still like the option in the game set-up to disable it completely. It would be an OPTION. Play with it or without it, as it happens to suit you that day. Civ IV has such an option. Sometime I play with it, sometime I play without it. It certainly results in different style games. I like that.



feelotraveller -> RE: Disable Tech Trading? (10/11/2012 6:19:14 AM)

I think the big problem is the convertibility of tech into cash and vice versa.  If it is expensive - as it is now - the player can exploit it by gaining huge amounts of cash (especially if they gave the cpu excellent home worlds and bonus cash from difficulty [8|]), if it is cheap it will be a buying spree.  Simply blocking the trading of tech for cash would go a long way.  The down side is that this would mean splitting tech off from the other diplomatic options.

Trading tech for tech would be better done, to my mind, as an over time deal.  So instead of instantaneously swapping techs each player would gain bonus research towards a chosen tech over time.  Perhaps they would need to be researching the tech and do it at double speed?




AminMaalouf -> RE: Disable Tech Trading? (10/11/2012 8:44:54 PM)

I am fine with the house rules. I would be fine even if we could trade entire ships like in Pax Imperia 2. Should DW ever one day get a multiplayer module, these little treife tibits would be the salt in the soup. I am all for keeping the engine as open as possible and leave it to the player what he/she is doing with it.



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