RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (Full Version)

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tjhkkr -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/7/2012 4:36:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

For me it's all just a role play thing. I want to recreate battles like I saw at Endor, or at the battle of Chin'toka :- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg_6eeJ5eVc

I used to go all capitals and cruisers, but it's a bit boring to look at. With formations, it would give us a purpose for the frigates. Let them be the ones to go in first. I don't want a scratch on my new shiny Capital ship!

I always use staging areas of course. Just outside the enemy sensor range. However, with formations I would no longer have to do that. At least that's my hope anyway.


I always use escorts and frigates for escort and garrison duty... especially with pirates all over the place...



Bingeling -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/7/2012 10:24:03 AM)

I tend to let the AI make my ships, and the AI escort can do little to a pirate in early game, unless it is a pirate escort, which hardly can do much to a mining station anyways.

One primary annoyance in early game is that it is hard to kill pirates, since the kill rate is so slow that they get away with retreat set at 20-40% shields.

Some very few tech upgrades make anti pirate life easier, and once the empire grows a tiny bit, hopefully explorers and mining spies can start spotting nearby pirate bases.



tjhkkr -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/7/2012 6:37:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

I tend to let the AI make my ships, and the AI escort can do little to a pirate in early game, unless it is a pirate escort, which hardly can do much to a mining station anyways.
One primary annoyance in early game is that it is hard to kill pirates, since the kill rate is so slow that they get away with retreat set at 20-40% shields.
Some very few tech upgrades make anti pirate life easier, and once the empire grows a tiny bit, hopefully explorers and mining spies can start spotting nearby pirate bases.


I have AWACs ships to find the pirate Bases, and Taskforce of several destroyers dedicated to pirate base elimination.
The problem is that these bases randomly appear. I build my escorts such that the give time either for a ship to escape or for a frigate or two to arrive and restore the situation.
The biggest problem there is that you cannot get them all, and I have seen pirate fragments reassemble with other pirates, and you later on end up with a pirate fleet 10 or 12 strong (at least that is what I think is happening). They are usually smaller ships, but it is usually a little bit of a surprise.



Bingeling -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/7/2012 6:57:37 PM)

Good luck on awacs ships with no tech :)

Once some tech and some sign of wealth is in place, pirates are only a "problem" when pirate defenses break down due to me sending every ship into war. Or rather, the main problem is them being an annoyance. It is so much sun watching pirate bases appear as one is killed, making an eternal travel loop in a gas cloud for a pirate busting fleet.

Keep in mind that playing starting harsh homeworld with very slow research (or slower), the early days take some time to clear.

I have had the surprise of powerful pirates too, but never in "my areas". Once I start expanding (especially pre-borders), pirates far away becomes objectives, and those may have been well fed by stupid AI for the entire game, and amassed a wide selection of ships. I remember a good tech 4 ship destroyer fleet heading out to *yawn* kill another base, and only two ships limped out with little significant damage to the pirates [:D]



feelotraveller -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/7/2012 8:56:48 PM)

Yep.  One reason not to take out pirate bases is that any ships remaining from that faction join the next nearest pirate faction.  Do it again and it snowballs.  So it pays to target the pirate ships ahead of the bases.  I'll often go so far as to wait at a system with a pirate base in it for some time to pick off the ships before I take out the base.  Or even leave the base there once I'm done.  Experience tells me that this slows the spawn rate so you do not end up playing whack a mole.

There are other pirates though, ones which tales are told about...  [;)]



Bingeling -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/7/2012 9:13:40 PM)

I really hope the pirate love in shadows is proper love, since the current ones don't work well.

I have never noticed pirates being inherited. I have always assumed the bases spawn ships once its pirates scores some kills. As for whack a mole, I doubt ships were a problem. I had the cloud well scanned, and the ships of new bases never left base before being busted with it. I guess the main problem in that game was a well development ring galaxy, with few spots to spawn in.

The other pirates are fun, but far to common for me when the game matures. And there is the silly feature of locating their base through random clicking on possible systems...

I am rusty, I think I have only played two legends games of some length. Or I may have forgotten one.



feelotraveller -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/8/2012 4:36:19 AM)

Pirate ships from eliminated factions definitely transfrer their alliegances to nearby factions.  I assume that it always happens, but it is certainly frequent.  If you play another Legends game take note of the names of pirate ships you encounter and their faction.  You may well see the same ship working for another faction later in the game if you eliminate the faction without first taking out the ship.  (This is easiest to notice when the ship is an advanced one from a pirate ambush.)

Pirate bases spawn ships on creation (2 to 3 escorts and/or frigates, on the settings I play), after destroying empire bases, and after taking money for a bribe or selling something.  Haven't noticed if there is any other way...



Bingeling -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/8/2012 8:49:55 AM)

Thinking about it, I have seen a "random gang" having the phantom fleet. Not that they seemed to do much with it. I seem to remember a lot of pirate ships sitting without fuel at the outskirts of my systems, but this may have been in older versions.

And it would make total sense for ships and their crews to join new "bases" if the old one is lost.

No new ships for pirates on killing private sector ships? I guess they don't kill so many, though. If you got a hyperdrive it is not hard to escape if you never plan on fighting.



PS Pita -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/8/2012 6:16:42 PM)

So, is this expansion still coming out this year? In December? I remember the devs saying it would probably be out
in December before Christmas. Would be nice if it was.



feelotraveller -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/8/2012 6:29:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

No new ships for pirates on killing private sector ships? I guess they don't kill so many, though. If you got a hyperdrive it is not hard to escape if you never plan on fighting.


Yes, I missed that. I guess they probably would but I have never observed it. [;)]



Bingeling -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/8/2012 6:39:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PS Pita

So, is this expansion still coming out this year? In December? I remember the devs saying it would probably be out
in December before Christmas. Would be nice if it was.

I am pretty sure Erik has said it will miss the Christmas sale in this thread.

As far as I have seen hints of, it has not entered beta yet, but could be close.



Dab42 -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/10/2012 4:17:01 PM)

On the pirate issue of bases reappearing - build a mining station in systems where you've just destroyed a base and they can't reappear there.

As a side note. I saw 2 pirate ships fighting each other while attacking a base of mine which was interesting. The destroyer form one faction destroyed an escort form another then destroyed my station.



Bingeling -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/10/2012 4:19:21 PM)

The pirates need a fuel source. As long as you build something in all system with fuel sources, they are kind of lost...



DevildogFF -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/13/2012 9:34:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Martian


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cruis.In

how come DW won't or doesnt have a 3d engine? I don't mean isometric or pan all around like Sins necessarily but more like star drive. In DW you seem to zoom in with the mouse wheel in increments 3-6-9 which makes it stuttery, but with star drive and sins you zoom in and its smooth like a floating point increment. 0.1 > 0.2 etc as you scroll and it's fast. No stutter.

Is there plans to ever go with a different rendering engine? How hard would it be to simply render what we see in a more advanced 3d way while keeping the game as it is? I mean it is just the visuals.

SINS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWJT2rCABKs

Star drive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWV6Ky1xNog

see the view in Star drive is just like DW 2d top down, but its 3d. The ships are actual textured models, as you can see them turn and you see the side etc.



I agree with you so much!!! Although I am completely happy with 2D ships and planets, but smooth "graphics card powered" engine is a must to fully enjoy DW's great features & mechanics. Unfortunately, right now it feels like using car's engine to propel an airplane (DW's gameplay) - enough to move it out of hangar, but not enough to take off and really fly! [;)]

I understand quite well that writing new engine is not a simple thing to do, but I do really hope Elliot & Erik will make it as one of highest priority for a next big release. [&o][&o][&o]



This. A hundred times this.



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/13/2012 9:43:12 PM)

I would love to see a Sins of a Solar Empire in 2D.People would then see what a overated,hollow piece of **** that game is.



Haree78 -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/13/2012 11:31:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

I would love to see a Sins of a Solar Empire in 2D.People would then see what a overated,hollow piece of **** that game is.


I <3 Sins
Real Time Strategy without the clicks per minute bullshit of others in the genre.



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/13/2012 11:36:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Haree78


quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

I would love to see a Sins of a Solar Empire in 2D.People would then see what a overated,hollow piece of **** that game is.


I <3 Sins
Real Time Strategy without the clicks per minute bullshit of others in the genre.


The developers like to call it a 4x, so that is the standard it is measured.



Cruis.In -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/14/2012 1:14:02 AM)

I'd also like to see better ship control. If one of the alternative game modes is to automate everything and pilot your ship around exploring then you should be able to better manage what it targets. Sometimes when I am fighting against multiple ships with one ship I have controlling, I can't get it to focus on the target I want with all weapons, tho the ship is in range of all weapons.



WoodMan -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/14/2012 9:34:04 AM)

[:D]

I use a simple workaround for your problems guys, I know its not perfect but set your fleet to move to just outside the system, not the system itself. Then, make a second very small jump into the system all together.



Bingeling -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/14/2012 11:20:45 AM)

Much the same that I do. If you want to really perfect the arrival times, it is probably a good idea to have the ships travel to a common point when you give the attack order. Since ships needs to turn before they hyperspace, this will ensure they all turn at the same amount, and should launch at the same time. The best point to travel on engines for is of course the target...

I send them to some nearby-ish system, though. And as long as they are in the same system, the arrival coordination is good enough for me. I have seen requests for fleet formations, my main annoyance is the lack of furball in arrival from hyperspace. They should practice tighter hyperspace exit :)



MartialDoctor -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/14/2012 12:13:55 PM)

Yes, there are easy ways to manually make your fleets arrive at the same time. However, that requires extra management. Also, the AI doesn't do this. So, the AI easily sets itself up to get it's faster, usually more powerful, ships slaughtered before the rest of the cavalry arrives...



Bingeling -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/14/2012 12:56:46 PM)

The AI is not all bad at this, though, and I believe that in the latest patch, much of the issues of different hyper speeds are gone.

It happens, though, that the AI arrive a bit one and one. It should not be too hard to reprogram fleet behavior of the "prepare and attack" order to be more "everyone fueled? All here? All set course to target? All done? Jump". General exit control would be bad in other situations, where getting out of trouble is more important than getting into trouble.



Raap -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/14/2012 8:44:14 PM)

Well, that logic might be simple, sensible and easily doable programming-wise, but it doesn't take into account any of the number of things that could happen in the actual game.

For instance, what if some of the ships get really low on fuel just waiting for the rest of the ships that are off refueling? So maybe then it sends those ships to refuel, only to have the ones you were initially waiting for jump in and having to wait themselves. Could quickly turn into a 'never-finished-preparing' situation, if the distance to the nearest refueling point was long enough. Same if some of the ships happened to come upon combat and be damaged, and probably other things as well.

Anyway, I'm not saying it's impossible to solve, just pointing out that things are rarely as easy as they seem. I'm quite sure they must have spent a few frustrating hours trying different approaches with varying amounts of luck. I've played quite a few 4x games, and frankly, all of the ones using a 'limited ship resource' system like fuel/energy/whatever tend to have either this or some variation of this problem, especially as it concerns the AI.



Bingeling -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/14/2012 9:43:21 PM)

True, there are some issues. But I think the main problem is some arriving early, not some arriving late. A percentage could work, and a fleet waiting in a system does not burn fuel after energy collectors became rather standard a lot of patches ago.



Cruis.In -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/14/2012 9:43:32 PM)

ammo should be limited. You should have to make ammo :)



Antiscamp -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/15/2012 5:18:43 PM)

I am so impressed by this game. I just got the base game as it's on sale right now, and am getting the two expansions for my Christmas holidays. I am really glad to now hear about this new upcoming expansion as well and I'm really impressed at how much work and dedication goes into this game.

I am having loads of fun with the base game already! really impressive. More people need to know about this!



Fishers of Men -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/15/2012 5:25:50 PM)

Welcome, Anticamp! Glad you are joining us here on the forum and enjoying Distant Worlds. The addition of the expansions will make your games more fun and challenging.



Antiscamp -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/15/2012 5:32:55 PM)

Thanks, Fishers of Men. :) This game will stay with me for a long time. I've been looking for a good space 4x, bought many and been disappointed. This one was love at first sight though. I hope to fully enjoy it with the expansions this Christmas.



Satosky -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/15/2012 6:41:21 PM)

I think some small dwarf planets inhabited by major pirate factions would be slightly interesting(if not chaotic) or major pirate bases/stations that hold many different factions or one giant faction.(I know they have the in Legends already but they are quite underwhelming) Still hoping that they increase the depth of immigration by letting us select which races we want/don't want in our colonies. I want to be able to enslave those pesky Boskara while welcoming the others heh.



tjhkkr -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (12/18/2012 12:45:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan [:D]

I use a simple workaround for your problems guys, I know its not perfect but set your fleet to move to just outside the system, not the system itself. Then, make a second very small jump into the system all together.


That is exactly what I do...
If I had the brains to do that all the time, the many crystaline entities would not have zapped my AWACs frigate...

[crystaline entities replaced my giant Kaltors]



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