RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (Full Version)

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Kayoz -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/22/2013 9:24:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: athelas.loraiel
.....STEAM more and more confirms that intermediates between developers and audience are not needed. Matrix might not be needed.

Perhaps you have a different definition of "intermediary" than the rest of us mud-chewing primitives - but as far as I can see, Steam is EXACTLY that.

Your logic makes no sense. Your use of the English language makes no sense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: athelas.loraiel
...but sales that this game would get are stupendous...

The basis for this statement is...? I assume you've done a market analysis to demonstrate the "stupendous" gains you claim will be made?

No? No evidence to support your claim? I thought not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: athelas.loraiel
In the end, due to pirating, this game is being played without buying it.

First off, putting a game on Steam is no impediment to pirates. Hate to burst your faith in DRM, but Steam isn't proving difficult for the pirates to crack. Putting a game on Steam, despite your implication, is no guarantee that it won't show up on TPB in a few hours.

Second, studies have shown time and time again that blaming low sales on piracy is without merit. If you have low sales for your product, it's probably because your product is crap.

If you have a rubbish game, people won't buy it - but you can always blame it on pirates. It sounds like a flawless argument to bring up to mollify your displeased investors... but the evidence doesn't support that claim.

quote:

ORIGINAL: athelas.loraiel
30% is highest STEAM charges...there are ways for lower prices.

It's beyond the scope of this forum to discuss business decisions - but the distributor's cut is only part of the decision. If you think that this is the sole basis for choosing a distributor, I can only suggest that you do some reading before you comment further on the subject.

As for your "30%" claim - Steam distribution contracts are locked behind NDAs. You don't know what the percentage is, much less what other obligations and limitations that entering into a contract with them entails. Erik does - he's negotiated with them and decided that it's not so great as you imply. That you seem to believe that you know better - in the absence of any real information - that says a great deal about your business acumen.



Athelas2211 -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/22/2013 9:49:45 AM)

Im sorry to have offended. I have much of info you refer to.
Im not native english speaker but I do have bussiness relations partialy in gaming/publishing industry.
Steam is a publisher and an intermediary.
It is however biggest one in terms of sales of non-hyped products.

I will refrain from more posts and will let future prove or not what happens to this great game when it gets on STEAM.
It will though, its just a matter of time.



Strat_84 -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/22/2013 12:10:40 PM)

Just so that you know, there are people as well that will NEVER buy a game that require that STEAM crap. [:-]



Kayoz -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/22/2013 1:24:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: athelas.loraiel
...but I do have bussiness relations partialy in gaming/publishing industry.

I have a mate who's a dentist - but that doesn't mean you should trust me to take a drill to your teeth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: athelas.loraiel
Steam is a publisher and an intermediary.

Indeed. You said it wasn't.

*edit*
I'm still not sure of the significance of that statement.
"A walrus is a mammal and an animal" - do you know any mammals that aren't animals? Likewise, I'm not sure how, in your view, a publisher can avoid being an intermediary.

quote:

ORIGINAL: athelas.loraiel
It is however biggest one in terms of sales of non-hyped products.

Ummm... biggest in sales of "non-hyped products"? That doesn't make any sense. WalMart is a rather dominant retailer in the USA. But that doesn't mean anyone with any product will necessarily want to sell their products through them.

To put it more simply - "big" doesn't necessarily mean "good". Unless you're Ron Jeremy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: athelas.loraiel
It will though, its just a matter of time.

You sound eerily like the Mormons and Jehova's Witnesses who come knocking on my door... Such confidence. Such faith. Creepy.

If it's in the interest of Matrix and Code Force, I'm sure it'll show up on Steam in short order. Till the cost-benefit equation changes however, I can't see it happening.



Athelas2211 -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/22/2013 2:40:32 PM)

Games do not REQUIRE Steam.
What was proposed is that The Game should be available through STEAM too (along other similar digital services...) but that STEAM would not be required for it.

That way everyone wins. All apetites are satisfied.

Many people don't know unfortunately, that STEAM nowadays doesn't require you to run it behind as an aplication (unless specific studio does).
You can simply run the game from it's folder.

I myself play a few games in offline mode on several of my PCs and we play MP in local LAN.same account.
Therefore being online also isn't requirement by STEAM/Valve, but by some studios that develop and publish game.

I repeat: game such as this one should be available to as wide an audience as it can be. Time will judge it more fair that way. Wider availability and consumer conformity did not stop pirating of music through Mp3 but it did help artists and their studios to sell them more through itunes store when they became available.



Athelas2211 -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/22/2013 2:51:54 PM)

I never said STEAM isn't an intermediary. I simply stated that today, many games do not require an (other) intermediate in them being brought to consumers.

In the end devs/publishers choose their publication channels. Steam presently is the most viable and significant digital distribution store/platform for windows based PCs.

Hyped products like EA/Origin exclusives are what I ment. (Crysis 3, Mass effect 3...) I'm sorry if you found it too hard to grasp.

In case of smaller audience but great products - Bigger availability and visibility means better.
Paradox...Stardock....Ilwinter games...many indie studios.

The point is: DW wouldn't loose anything by appearing on STEAM. Even if they chose high prices they would still gain something....Even if they payed 30% cut to Valve - they would still sell more then now.

Which in the end is what is important - bringing viability and larger playerbase to the best single player space empire simulation game I heard of.

My sincere wish is that devs get so much money from the sales of DW that they can employ a true army of support stuff and other devs and bring all the things people ask for as soon as possible.

as to the certainty of something. well, let's say it really doesn't matter if you get creeps about it. It is in their interest (of course, under best terms possible), let us see how soon they realize that.

I presume after they see how the sales went with Shadows expansion, the Steam introduction will catch some more "steam".

Have a nice day, and again, I sincerely apologize if I touched someone's nerve (by the tone - some individuals were "touched"). I didn't intend to add insult to injury, I stated the reasons behind that.

as to the Steam bussiness model and more info about it (without disclosing and activating the fine prints in the contracts valve has with contractors) - if people are interested, one can go check Brad Wardel's posts on it in fallend enchantress Stardock forums.

He goes bones bare in many things explaining why.

See you/read you soon.



Shark7 -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/22/2013 4:36:52 PM)

OK, lets just drop the STEAM debate please. That discussion has been argued ad nauseum and gotten nowhere. No one is going to change their mind on the topic.

I really do not want to see this thread locked due to off topic arguments. Myself and many other forum users want to be able to read about news about DW Shadows, not STEAM. So please just stop. [:)]



2guncohen -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/22/2013 6:06:01 PM)

So when will the game release ? [:D]

And will we have a sneakpeek about how modabel the game is going to be ?
Because I have been looking around for old sprites to bring the flavor [:D]

Gr 2gun



Kayoz -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/22/2013 9:01:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 2guncohen
So when will the game release ? [:D]

Last I heard, Erik indicated an April release... though I'm wondering if I missed a change to that.



Kayoz -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/22/2013 9:53:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: athelas.loraiel
Games do not REQUIRE Steam.
What was proposed is that The Game should be available through STEAM too (along other similar digital services...) but that STEAM would not be required for it.

Apologies in advance to Shark - but I'm curious about the basis for this statement.

Can you release a game through Steam -AND- through non-Steam channels? As far as I know, you can't. It is, to the best of my knowledge, exclusive. I am not aware of any games that are available as both Steam and non-Steam (non-Steam meaning that you can purchase, install and play the game without any connection to Steam services).

Leaping ahead on the assumption that you can't do so... I think that says everything about the value of Athelas' business insights.

quote:

ORIGINAL: athelas.loraiel
I myself play a few games in offline mode on several of my PCs and we play MP in local LAN.same account.

Well done. You've admitted to computer piracy. Or at the very least, a gross violation of your EULA.

Playing a game on multiple PCs at the same time -REQUIRES- multiple game purchases to cover each and every one of those PCs. Or such is the position of 2K Games.

addendum:
No further comment from me on this exhumation of this "DW on Steam" argument. Debate with a self-admitted pirate and business law genius is too much for me.



hewwo -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/22/2013 10:26:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz

Can you release a game through Steam -AND- through non-Steam channels?



Yes of course you can. I always check if I can buy a game directly through the developer first. I have plenty of them. And steam is 100% awesome for LANparties. We used to do it a lot, then switched to consoles because it was so much less hassle. Now with steam we're back to playing PC games. Of course have you're entitled to your opinion... but also facts [;)]

Anway! I am so looking forward to shadows. Early may release is last that Eric mentioned.



Kayoz -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/22/2013 10:31:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hewwo
Yes of course you can.

Really? Name the game.

Keep in mind that I qualified my non-Steam statement - no Steam install, no connection to Steam services required. I am unaware of any games that fulfill this requirement.



JiminyJickers -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/22/2013 10:47:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz


quote:

ORIGINAL: hewwo
Yes of course you can.

Really? Name the game.

Keep in mind that I qualified my non-Steam statement - no Steam install, no connection to Steam services required. I am unaware of any games that fulfill this requirement.


The Thief Series, The Witcher 1 and 2, Star Pilgrim, The Avernum series, FTL, etc. There are many many games that are available on both Steam and other DRM free distributors.

But this is actually a discussion about Distant Worlds: Shadows.

Any new news regarding the release date? I am very much aching for it to be released already.[:)]



PS Pita -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/22/2013 11:24:22 PM)

I can't believe now here in this forum we have people crying about steam. Not long ago paradox interactive had a thread going about like this with a bunch of ignorant anti steam anti "DRM"
gamers "on pricipal" whining about how they couldn't buy any of paradoxes games because they would be on steam. Have any of you even looked into steam lately? Do you know what it is really? If you get out of the barrel that is inside your horse and buggy you may discover something good and not at all invasive or damaging to you software of hardware like you imagine. In fact find out what "cloud" is and "steam works"
about indie games and betas you would otherwise not be aware of and above all 30% off 40% even 75% off good games that you like. Not to mention the ability to back your files up and easily reinstall them quickly and efficiently.

When steam first came out and I had to use it for a particular game that required it. I hated it it was a buggy intrusive mess.
But now its the best thing for any gamer since bread and butter.



PS Pita -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/22/2013 11:28:24 PM)

Ha, now I have to ask: any rough idea when the release might be? This month? early, late next month...sometime this summer?



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/22/2013 11:31:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PS Pita

Ha, now I have to ask: any rough idea when the release might be? This month? early, late next month...sometime this summer?


I heard Friday at 12 gmt.



PS Pita -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/22/2013 11:32:26 PM)

Yes just about any game you buy from steam you can run without steam. I have at least a couple dozen that run without it.



Kayoz -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/22/2013 11:38:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PS Pita
I can't believe now here in this forum we have people crying about steam.


This is quite different.

It's Matrix deciding not to avail themselves of the services of Steam and a few users whingeing for Matrix to do so.

Exactly the opposite of Paradox.



Kayoz -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/22/2013 11:39:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76
I heard Friday at 12 gmt.


Source?



Windfire -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/23/2013 12:25:51 AM)

Please take the steam discussion to a different thread as I would like to see this one remain open for information about Shadows.



Tampa_Gamer -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/23/2013 1:27:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Windfire
Please take the steam discussion to a different thread as I would like to see this one remain open for information about Shadows.


+1. Would also like to echo requests for some additional information on the modding front. We know that a future expansion pack will focus solely on modding, but it was also mentioned that there were a few goodies for modders in this expansion as well. While we are waiting, please elaborate!



Kayoz -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/23/2013 2:40:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tampa_Gamer
While we are waiting, please elaborate!

Has Erik released any information at all, since his last dump of screencaps?

He last indicated an April release date, so if it's set to go in a week - surely he could give out a few details....



AminMaalouf -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/23/2013 3:54:35 AM)

He has said, they may had a release candidate, recently.



Spacecadet -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/23/2013 4:38:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JiminyJickers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz


quote:

ORIGINAL: hewwo
Yes of course you can.

Really? Name the game.

Keep in mind that I qualified my non-Steam statement - no Steam install, no connection to Steam services required. I am unaware of any games that fulfill this requirement.


The Thief Series, The Witcher 1 and 2, Star Pilgrim, The Avernum series, FTL, etc. There are many many games that are available on both Steam and other DRM free distributors.

But this is actually a discussion about Distant Worlds: Shadows.

Any new news regarding the release date? I am very much aching for it to be released already.[:)]


Yep, I was going throw out Legend of Grimrock - Developer, GOG, Steam, and later a Humble Bundle I believe.





Spacecadet -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/23/2013 4:41:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz


quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76
I heard Friday at 12 gmt.


Source?


He's yanking your chain [:D]





Ralzakark -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/23/2013 6:41:21 PM)

Please can we keep this thread on track.

There is far too much information about Distant Worlds in it and not enough about the pros and cons of Steam.



Buio -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/23/2013 7:54:22 PM)

Click link below for images of Distant Worlds Shadows in this thread.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3206160&mpage=19&key=#3299868

This link contains official info on Distant Worlds Shadows
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/466/details/Distant.Worlds-.Shadows
Apparently it needs .NET 4.0 and XNA 4.0. Legends only requires .NET 3.5. Here is info on XNA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_XNA

Not really fun facts: The Swedish literal translation of Distant Worlds: Shadows is "Avlägsna Världar: Skuggor" (in before some other Swede who is actually good at languages and grammar corrects me)



simsum -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/26/2013 5:51:09 AM)


quote:

Not really fun facts: The Swedish literal translation of Distant Worlds: Shadows is "Avlägsna Världar: Skuggor"


I'm not very Sweet, but I think the first word should probably be "fjärran." What you used instead, at least to me, kind of implies worlds that are removed rather than remote. Like worlds you can't get a colonization permit for, because the authorities plan on using them for alien preserves... Or something.



Shark7 -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/26/2013 2:43:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: simsum


quote:

Not really fun facts: The Swedish literal translation of Distant Worlds: Shadows is "Avlägsna Världar: Skuggor"


I'm not very Sweet, but I think the first word should probably be "fjärran." What you used instead, at least to me, kind of implies worlds that are removed rather than remote. Like worlds you can't get a colonization permit for, because the authorities plan on using them for alien preserves... Or something.


My empire has a few colonies like that. [;)]



Kayoz -> RE: Distant Worlds: Shadows (4/26/2013 3:31:42 PM)

Nearing the end of April, and no release notice from Erik.

Has it slipped?



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