RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (Full Version)

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Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/13/2013 3:30:14 AM)

Orel to Voronezh

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Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/13/2013 3:32:36 AM)

Boguchar

[image]local://upfiles/14737/A80FF64DDE284C0FA110D7FF2BB9E970.jpg[/image]



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/13/2013 3:52:29 AM)

Rostov

For the past several turns Saper has been bombing my 4th Air Army fighter airfields in this area doing significant damage. Each turn I would move many of the demoralized and/or understrength fighter airgroups back to National Reserve and replace them with fresh fighter airgroups from National Reserve. Only to have those airgroups smashed on Saper's next turn. Question: Are airgroups I transfer to an airbase on my turn (thus putting them at 100% for airmiles flown)able to participate in combat on my opponent's turn? If not than perhaps that at least partially explains the carnage. This last turn for example Saper made 9 total bombing attacks on 3 of my 4th Air Army airfields. He lost 9 fighters and 12 bombers, I lost 138 fighters. Saper has most of his airforce stationed in the South and each bombing run was made by, on average, about 200 fighters/bombers. So I can somewhat understand the damage he inflicted. But at the same time I have 2 full strength PVO AA Regiments and 2 AA Battalions assigned to 4th Air Army. With all those birds in the air I would have thought the AA alone would have averaged more than 2 kills per bombing run. In any event, does anyone know a good counter to this? Or should I just be running away with my airbases whenever the Luftwaffe shows up in force.

[image]local://upfiles/14737/FAAC7420E34042919AF076055CCD3CF2.jpg[/image]



randallw -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/13/2013 8:07:26 AM)

The moment an air group is sent to the national reserve it is off the battlefield, in some virtual place where nothing happens to it until the end of the turn.



Flaviusx -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/13/2013 8:44:40 AM)

Use staging bases down south. Leave the ones forward empty and put the other ones outside of easy fighter cover by the Luftwaffe. If he wants to bomb those, he's welcome to do so and pay the price.

On your own turn you might want to start flying some offensive fighter sweeps in other parts of the front where he is weaker and draw out his remaining fighters there. Then follow that up with your own bombing missions once you exhaust that local fighter cover. Unlike the Luftwaffe, you should have more than enough airpower to be active across the whole front, and should punish this concentration on his part by asserting air superiority everywhere else.




821Bobo -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/13/2013 9:46:08 AM)

How you can fly fighter sweep?



Walloc -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/13/2013 10:08:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

How you can fly fighter sweep?


16.3.3.5. Air Superiority Missions

There is no separate mode for conducting a mission consisting of fighter air group units attempting to engage enemy air group units in air to air combat. Players can approximate this type of historical operation by setting up a manual bombing mission and deselecting bomber air group units so that only fighter air group units conduct the mission. Bomb airfield missions against air base units will usually be the most effective application of air superiority missions.
Note that in a situation where fighters are available and in range, but no bombers are available, players will be unable to set up a bombing mission since the computer won't allow a mission if there are no bomber air group units to initially include.

v1.05.28 - September 29, 2011
Fighter sweeps will now sometimes get attack bonuses when attacking enemy CAP

v1.05.59 - January 31, 2012
New Features and Rule Changes

20. New Interface - Added air mission composition information to the battle site (F11) Show Details display. For each side the number of aircraft performing the functions of bombing (or reconnaissance if a recon mission), escort, sweep and CAP are listed. Since version 1.05.18, a portion of escort may be assigned to the sweep function, which allows those fighters to attack enemy CAP first in order to gain air superiority prior to the mission.

v1.05.18 - September 6, 2011
New Features and Rule Changes

15) New Rule - Added a chance that some fighters will be allocated to fly fighter sweeps along with any airstrikes that are ordered. They will fly as part of the original airstrike and combat with this fighter sweep will be resolved with the original airstrike (i.e. it will seem like one mission is being flown, but in reality there are two distinct actions taking place, the bombing raid and the fighter sweep). The higher the escort setting, the greater the chance that a fighter sweep will be flown.



So there is the automatic ones and the ones set upped per original manual text and methode.


Hope it helps,

Rasmus



821Bobo -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/13/2013 10:17:58 AM)

Thanks a lot. It seems I will need to read the manual once again. [:D]



schascha -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/13/2013 7:02:51 PM)

quote:

Are airgroups I transfer to an airbase on my turn (thus putting them at 100% for airmiles flown)able to participate in combat on my opponent's turn?


I'm intersted too by a ansver please[&o]



M60A3TTS -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/13/2013 8:21:55 PM)

Can we see a picture from the command screen of the air units assigned to the bases he is bombing? I'd like to get a feel for the quality of the units you are putting in there.



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/14/2013 12:42:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

The moment an air group is sent to the national reserve it is off the battlefield, in some virtual place where nothing happens to it until the end of the turn.


I knew that. What I want to know is are the new units I transfer into the 4th Army Airgroups from National Reserve on my turn able to fly missions on my opponent's turn? Or do they just sit on the tarmac (oops this is Russia isn't it, I should say sit in the cow pasture) waiting to be bombed.



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/14/2013 12:44:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Use staging bases down south. Leave the ones forward empty and put the other ones outside of easy fighter cover by the Luftwaffe. If he wants to bomb those, he's welcome to do so and pay the price.

On your own turn you might want to start flying some offensive fighter sweeps in other parts of the front where he is weaker and draw out his remaining fighters there. Then follow that up with your own bombing missions once you exhaust that local fighter cover. Unlike the Luftwaffe, you should have more than enough airpower to be active across the whole front, and should punish this concentration on his part by asserting air superiority everywhere else.


Good Idea; should have thought of it myself. I like to think I have several strengths to my game, but effective use of the airforce is not one of them.



Flaviusx -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/14/2013 12:46:54 AM)

Am pretty sure that air units transferred from the NR arrive with zero air miles available and won't have any available until your next starting turn. (Which means they don't fly during the next opponent turn following their transfer either.)




schascha -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/14/2013 1:19:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Am pretty sure that air units transferred from the NR arrive with zero air miles available and won't have any available until your next starting turn. (Which means they don't fly during the next opponent turn following their transfer either.)




thx for the reply. It's important to know



Flaviusx -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/14/2013 1:27:13 AM)

Just checked this out and indeed all air miles are used in such transfers. The air unit will indicate this with a 100% miles flown.





M60A3TTS -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/14/2013 1:28:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Am pretty sure that air units transferred from the NR arrive with zero air miles available and won't have any available until your next starting turn. (Which means they don't fly during the next opponent turn following their transfer either.)


I am not sure that's correct for the Soviet player. Rule 8.4.1 states Air groups transferred from the national reserve to an
air base unit will be unavailable to conduct any missions during the turn they are transferred.

When the Axis player starts, it's a new turn. So the Soviet units should fly.



Flaviusx -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/14/2013 1:33:54 AM)

Good point M60. But it's not clear to me the air mileage resets during an opposing player's turn or the start of your own. I always assumed the later, in order to prevent double dipping.



Michael T -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/14/2013 1:34:19 AM)

In T8, as Axis I put a bunch of Stukas from reserve to bases. On my T9 I see that these Stukas bombed the Reds as interdictors in the Soviet T8.



Flaviusx -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/14/2013 1:37:10 AM)

Interesting. So you can double dip.




randallw -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/15/2013 10:39:44 AM)

I would think it fair that air units can be ready to react once the opponent's turn comes around.



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/16/2013 3:43:45 AM)

T67 (Sept 24/42)Clear Weather on all Fronts again. In fact it has been clear weather in all 4 Weather zones all summer. Not sure exactly what the odds of this are, but have to be pretty slim. Thank God it happened in 42 and not 41.

In the North I continue maneuvering my units around Saper's flank. Perhaps this is where I should have made my main effort.

[image]local://upfiles/14737/41FD274D5D5C47729408F1FA4E8FB4C6.jpg[/image]



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/16/2013 3:49:19 AM)

Not unsurprisingly Saper broke the minor encirclement I had created last turn. Tank Corps, even in light woods, are pretty fragile. He has rushed significant reinforcements to this area. I dithered a long time before deciding what to do.

[image]local://upfiles/14737/1A0BEF1045B543A49D7B672DB012131E.jpg[/image]



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/16/2013 4:02:35 AM)

Saper was concentrating his forces on the North and South flanks of my "breakthrough", with very little actually blocking the road straight West. perhaps a bolder person than myself would have reinforced his flanks while driving West. But Saper's panzer's have been resting for a few turns gathering their strength. I wasn't at all sure my flanks would hold and feared my spearhead would be cut off. So instead I put my efforts into re-isolating the same hex as last time (which had been reinforced by Saper), and putting up a wall to try and hold the encirclement this time. I doubt I'll succeed, but I should be able to bleed Saper some more.

Below are the 2 key attacks I had to win to re-establish and have any hope of holding the encirclement.

[image]local://upfiles/14737/2AD66AF117EC4F2AAC3B5F673952E864.jpg[/image]



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/16/2013 4:09:37 AM)

This is the area after my turn. Hopefully Saper doesn't have any powerful panzer units in the area or this could turn into a disaster. Last game on a few occasions Saper and I took turns isolating one another units for 3 or 4 turns in a row before one of us finally blinked.

[image]local://upfiles/14737/DFF9B2BB0DA74CF5AB321396512F4113.jpg[/image]



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/16/2013 4:15:31 AM)

More reinforcements on the way from the South.

[image]local://upfiles/14737/1750D8DC2BE442C686913BC44E8D2398.jpg[/image]



Peltonx -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (3/17/2013 2:08:35 AM)

Hes in trouble, September and your breaking his lines that wide open.

He should have gone over to defensive a while back and put 3 or 4 mech/panzer units in each army with 2 extra Corp of Infantry in reserve.

That way no matter where you tried to hit he could easly react and stop pushes with the 2 extra infantry Corp.

GHC will not have any weak areas until summer 44.

If all the panzers are in the 4 PG's it makes GHC very slow to react, slower then SHC.

SHC at this point of 42 can only push or break lines in 1 or 2 spots, very very easy to counter with a balanced defence.

Easy to counter in 43 for that matter.



Michael T -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (7/20/2013 6:20:40 AM)

What happened in this game? It would seem Harry was going to win it quite well?



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (7/21/2013 10:45:48 PM)

We played about 3 more turns than I've posted. Unfortunately I was unable to continue the game so offered my resignation to Saper. In those three turns he trapped a few of my units West of Bryansk. Despite the loss of some good units I think I was still in pretty good shape; but since I was the one calling the game I felt obliged to surrender. If anyone wants I can post screenies of those last 3 turns.

I haven't played any games since, but I do check in from time to time to read some of the AARs (especially yours Michael) as well as to read the latest debates. Perhaps I'll be able to get back into the game at about the same time as WiTW is released.



Michael T -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (7/21/2013 10:50:47 PM)

Sorry you could not finish it. But I certainly understand, I have my own issues to deal with ATM.

Anyway blind freddy could see this one was yours. I was enjoying it. All the best and see you around [:)]



Anauso72 -> RE: Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper) (7/30/2013 12:53:33 AM)

I am impressed with the number of guards tanks corps (around 8) that you have on turn 60. Attack in the blizzard Always using tanks brigades?



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