RE: Defending Mother Russia (Full Version)

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Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/6/2012 4:39:27 PM)

Below is the situation from Yaroslavl to Moscow. I’m not sure what Saper’s plan is with the two most northerly units circled in green (to match their fuel supply). Even with good supply attacking across the major river West of Yaroslavl will be difficult.

Of more concern to me are the mobile units I’ve circled in yellow and orange, along with the ones I can’t see. Saper likes to surround and isolate units, sometimes, in my opinion, burning off more fuel moving through ZOCs than is worth it. The units I’ve circled in red are some of my weakest units and considered expendable. I’m hoping Saper will surround them rather than just blowing through them. If he does it may buy me time which I desperately need.

So far no mobile units have appeared directly West of Moscow, if/when they do I’ll have to quickly retreat or risk another large encirclement. Indeed if fueled mobile units are hiding there now I could be in trouble.


[image]local://upfiles/14737/8E5ACFD4575F48CC93D51E2E1AD9D083.jpg[/image]



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/6/2012 4:41:26 PM)

T13

The Situation South of Moscow. Saper does not appear to have any mobile units gassed up here so I should be safe next turn. He might get across the river, but I don’t think he will be able to penetrate very far. The hexes circled in red are where I launched a couple counter attacks. One to free a unit from isolation and the other to cause even more of a supply bottleneck for Saper’s lead units.


[image]local://upfiles/14737/9143E65C39444C4D8C87E1D0B285596F.jpg[/image]



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/6/2012 4:43:09 PM)

This is one of the battles near Tula. As usual even when winning battles the Soviets take more casualties

[image]local://upfiles/14737/F9BE5ABA5EF74E60BD8809983FFD048F.jpg[/image]



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/6/2012 4:44:20 PM)

T13 Voronezh

Saper has one motorized in orange supply and my lines are not too deep here; so I am expecting to get some units isolated here next turn. Hopefully not too many. I made a successful counter attack here too. Overall though I have made far fewer attacks than normal for me by this time of the game. Saper is giving me few opportunities and it is difficult to attack when you are always retreating


[image]local://upfiles/14737/F3C0F39314CE438E96E2FCD7285281F2.jpg[/image]



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/6/2012 4:45:53 PM)

T13 Rostov Area

I only spotted 6 of the 9 mobile divisions that Saper has, or at least had, in this area and can only see the fuel status of 5 of them. This has me worried, but I’m hoping my units entrenched behind the major river will be able to prevent any major breakthroughs or encirclements


[image]local://upfiles/14737/2B966EE35DFD4CE6A22E2F5A3520FD8C.jpg[/image]



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/6/2012 4:48:31 PM)

As can be seen below when the Soviets lose an attack, as I did this one near Rostov, the losses are very one sided.

[image]local://upfiles/14737/CF333B7E16C2414C8FEE7C3B13203A7E.jpg[/image]



gingerbread -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/6/2012 8:27:14 PM)

I think he's saying that he is using 1 division for every Soviet plus 1 division per fort level and then some extra in offensive reserve mode. He uses units from different Corps to have lots of Art SU that can join in.

BTW, 18th Army that I assume is direct under STAVKA can be assigned to N. Cauc Front already in order to avoid the -10% penalty. If you have other plans for the Front, then disregard advice, but if 18th is to belong to N Cauc after activation there is no reason to wait.

How is your ARMs pool? Those BM Hwz are really expensive to replace...



Peltonx -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/6/2012 10:35:39 PM)

In the north hes way way past railheads and same for south. He must take some good size loses/morale from atrition on mud turns.



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/9/2012 1:54:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

I think he's saying that he is using 1 division for every Soviet plus 1 division per fort level and then some extra in offensive reserve mode. He uses units from different Corps to have lots of Art SU that can join in.

BTW, 18th Army that I assume is direct under STAVKA can be assigned to N. Cauc Front already in order to avoid the -10% penalty. If you have other plans for the Front, then disregard advice, but if 18th is to belong to N Cauc after activation there is no reason to wait.

How is your ARMs pool? Those BM Hwz are really expensive to replace...


Thanks for the explanation gingerbread, I think you are right.

18th Army is already attached to South Front, the same Front as Coastal Army.

I'm going to show my Production Stats soon; I have around 500,000 Arms. Is that good or bad for turn 14, I don't know?

I have not disbanded any of my artillery, tank or motorcycle regiments; but I have reduced all of their TOE to 50%. Is that smart? What else should I do to save Arms?




Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/9/2012 1:59:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

In the north hes way way past railheads and same for south. He must take some good size loses/morale from atrition on mud turns.


I hope you are right Pelton. But actually in the North I don't think he is too far from his railhead, which at the moment is, if I recall correctly, just north of the Valdai hills.

His supply situation in the Center is improving as he recovers from my raid on his rail lines several turns ago. For several turns most of his infantry directly West of Moscow were displaying red or orange supply. But this last turn they were mostly yellow.



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/9/2012 2:04:12 AM)

T14 North and West of Moscow.

This is the situation after my moves. You can see that Saper didn’t take the bait of surrounding my useless units, but instead blasted through them to isolate some better units (which were in the area circled in blue) further south. However, I was able to retreat one of his blocking motorized and extricate my units, at least for now. The fully fueled motorized circled in green could cause me problems; but only if Saper can punch a big enough hole in my lines with his other units. I’m hoping I have enough depth to prevent this.

I better be able to stop or at least slow him for several turns as shortly after I finished my turn I remembered that I had forgotten to evacuate any industry. This was especially galling as I had carefully limited my rail use on units this turn (thank you Walloc) so I would have lots to move industry. I now have to deal with a red welt on my forehead from where I banged my head on my computer desk in frustration. I always have difficulty explaining these types of injuries to my Wife. Of course if she would remind me to move my industry (rather than useless stuff like locking the car doors every time I exit a vehicle) I wouldn't need the ice pack.


[image]local://upfiles/14737/2829F4F27F984D93A5FD67FF98722C6B.jpg[/image]



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/9/2012 2:06:20 AM)

For those who are interested in such things here is the combat report for my attack on the motorized unit

[image]local://upfiles/14737/010926F14ACD452AB953F6BC5FE20EB9.jpg[/image]



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/9/2012 2:07:44 AM)

T14 Situation South of Moscow.

Not sure what Saper’s plans are for the 7 mobile divisions he has in this area; but I would be quite happy if they just stayed where they are for now.


[image]local://upfiles/14737/D132B50E2121419EA43B90F501EA7EEF.jpg[/image]



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/9/2012 2:08:57 AM)

T14 Voronezh Area

I may be overstaying my welcome here, but I decide to tough it our for at least 1 more turn.


[image]local://upfiles/14737/CF5FBE5742A145879BC21A03B8DF6DAC.jpg[/image]



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/9/2012 2:09:58 AM)

T14 South

Despite Saper crossing the Donets last turn I decide to try and hold here as well. Hopefully it won’t blow up in my face. My main concern, again, is that I don’t know where all his mobile units are or how much fuel they have


[image]local://upfiles/14737/8C3AA8FECFC141F2A67ABFBEED543457.jpg[/image]



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/9/2012 2:10:53 AM)

T14 Stalingrad

As you can see below Saper continues to bomb Stalingrad with his Rumanians at night. I have several fighter squadrons in the area set to night attacks. Most of his bombing runs were interdicted but I didn’t shoot down a single bomber with either my fighters or the Stalingrad AA. I can kind of see that since they are shooting in the dark, but than shouldn’t his bombers be rather ineffective as well. He has in just a few turns with very few bombers caused 34 damage to my T34 factories. If the RAF had been anywhere near this effective with their night bombing campaign German war production would have been effectively destroyed by the end of 42.

In any event, does anyone have a suggestion on how to deal with this short of moving the factories?


[image]local://upfiles/14737/49A140E71E5747B488EC86F4038ABE88.jpg[/image]



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/9/2012 2:12:32 AM)

T14 Production, OOB and Losses.

[image]local://upfiles/14737/642E0BED27594E9392A2D693DE58BB48.jpg[/image]



gingerbread -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/9/2012 10:01:16 AM)

If you already have the unit types you mention on 50%, not much more to be done. 500k should see you through winter.

You will be experiencing an ARM shortage later (July '42 at the latest), so include ARM when budgeting your builds.


Night bombing looks a bit too effective, but since the factories should be moved in '41 in any case, not much more to be done.
You will have lost some tanks and some per turn factory increases. Better he can keep bombing the T-34 rather than switching to an undamaged target.



Flaviusx -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/9/2012 1:53:57 PM)

Factory bombing in this game is stupid and shouldn't even be in it imo. Neither the Red Air force nor the Luftwaffe (let alone the Romanians) was effective at strategic bombing, either during the day or night and the game engine vastly exaggerates how good they are at it. Better than the real life USAAF or RAF. It's just dumb.

I think what your opponent is doing is 100% cheese. He's exploiting the game engine here. My own view is that this is a good place for a house rule: just say no to factory bombing, period.



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/11/2012 7:12:50 AM)

T15 Moscow Area

Saper continues his relentless drive towards Moscow. As you can see the units he isolated last turn have been re-isolated with no hope of rescue.

Still, unless he does something brilliant or, more likely, I do something stupid, I think I will be able to hold Moscow until after Turn 17. Whether or not Moscow falls after that may have a lot to do with how many of the turns from T18 to T24 are mud and how many are snow/blizzard.


[image]local://upfiles/14737/6CB52154B26B4C17A14FA0D457388AD8.jpg[/image]



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/11/2012 7:16:14 AM)

T15 Tula Area

Saper has done very little in this area for several turns, but this turn he gassed up (via air supply of course) at least one and probably 2 motorized units. There are several other mobile divisions in the area that I have lost track of. However, since I don’t believe they have done much movement recently I am worried that they may have built up sufficient fuel for an offensive across the major river. I have done what I can to shore up the defences in this area, but my supply of good units is very limited.

Meanwhile Saper has apparently moved most or even all of the mobile forces he had West of Voronezh into the gap North of Voronezh (circled in blue). Whether he is planning to move these units North to attack Moscow or East then South to come at my forces guarding Voronezh from behind I do not know.


[image]local://upfiles/14737/D0B60D255C2D444BA88D0A3BF395DA16.jpg[/image]



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/11/2012 7:20:00 AM)

T15 Voronezh Area

Except for Saper’s mobile units moving North there was very little action in this area last turn.


[image]local://upfiles/14737/1FC6FFD2F473401284F4E9BCFA8A76D8.jpg[/image]



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/11/2012 7:21:18 AM)

T15 South

Saper expands his bridgehead, but I continue to hold my ground. I have no illusion about being able to stop him from taking the 3 towns he needs to activate Army Groups A & B. I simply want to delay him here as long as possible. But I must admit I am getting very nervous. Meanwhile a motorized division heads towards Stalingrad


[image]local://upfiles/14737/7B6555DB0E99498E9B68A5E9E1B52B4E.jpg[/image]



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/11/2012 7:23:19 AM)

T15 Rail Net. For those who are interested in such things the next two screen shots are of Sapers rail net.

First the North


[image]local://upfiles/14737/6D6F11E8D382457BB4ECDFE3F15652B3.jpg[/image]



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/11/2012 7:25:15 AM)

Now the South

[image]local://upfiles/14737/B67368931B164B598A8146939CBD8F62.jpg[/image]



janh -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/11/2012 9:35:00 AM)

I keep being amazed by Saper's play, it's brilliant. He probably can't pull off that pinching move around Moscow, but if he did... It's a PBEM against a veteran Russian player, and yet he's almost gotten to Stalingrad by October 41. He should be in bad supply so far ahead for the rail heads, but the present logistics model obviously remains pretty generous.

Harry, without trying to be disillusioning, but the next 6 turns are going to be a pain. Perhaps you were just too unlucky with your rolls in the first 8 turns, but the situation looks very scary. Might be you'd better evacuate Moscow slowly to strengthen your flanks, else it is a va-banque gambit? I don't see so much else you can still do. Now would be the time where those extra divisions would be really needed that lack to complete the historical reinforcements.



molchomor -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/11/2012 12:06:38 PM)

Don't think you need to be so worried about Stalingrad or Moscow for that matter as long as they are garrisoned properly? Alot of Sapers actions seem to be focused on establishing a pre-blizzard buffer zone / tearing up rail, which is a nice thing for him as that will protect his weak underbelly (minor axis allies). You will probably not be able to reach those units at all during december if he places them on front sections where Soviet rail is nowhere near.



hugh04 -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/11/2012 3:07:49 PM)

Sapper will have a ton of isolated units come mud as they will be more then 100 mp's from a rail head in the south. Put yourself in a position to counterattack hard if that is the case.

Vandev



Helpless -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/11/2012 4:10:36 PM)

quote:

He has in just a few turns with very few bombers caused 34 damage to my T34 factories.


Very odd, looks like a bug. I was never able to duplicate this kind of damage with nigh missions. At the start of 1942 campaign all of LW is not able to make such damage to one factory doing night bombing, but taking huge losses.

Would be interesting to get a save prior similar night attack.



Harrybanana -> RE: Defending Mother Russia (12/12/2012 3:49:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: janh

I keep being amazed by Saper's play, it's brilliant. He probably can't pull off that pinching move around Moscow, but if he did... It's a PBEM against a veteran Russian player, and yet he's almost gotten to Stalingrad by October 41. He should be in bad supply so far ahead for the rail heads, but the present logistics model obviously remains pretty generous.


I don't think he'll pull off the pinching move either. Mainly because on T16 he made a full frontal attack on Moscow and advance 3 hexes, cutting off some more of my units. I'll be posting screen shots shortly. However, Saper has already pulled off the pinching move against Moscow in two previous AAR games against experienced Russian players.

quote:


Harry, without trying to be disillusioning, but the next 6 turns are going to be a pain. Perhaps you were just too unlucky with your rolls in the first 8 turns, but the situation looks very scary. Might be you'd better evacuate Moscow slowly to strengthen your flanks, else it is a va-banque gambit? I don't see so much else you can still do. Now would be the time where those extra divisions would be really needed that lack to complete the historical reinforcements.


I don't think I have necessarily been unlucky in this game, though a few extra helds (especially one critical one this last turn) would have helped. I will not evacuate Moscow, well at least not yet.



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