President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (Full Version)

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Footslogger -> President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 2:17:29 AM)

This clip has shown that FDR indeed knew about the attack as early as May 1941. And that Admiral Kimmel and General Short were completely let out of the information that FDR knew. What say yee?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUKEVoK4XMg



jmalter -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 4:10:08 AM)

i say it's nonsense.



warspite1 -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 9:40:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

What say yee?

warspite1

No.



slinkytwf -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 10:33:09 AM)

Poppycock conspiracy theory.

c.f., "And I was there"; Pearl Harbor and Midway--breaking the secrets. (1985); Layton, Edwin T.; Naval Institute Press



Shellshock -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 12:26:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

What say yee?



I'd say that YouTube is about the last place I'd go for any sort of deep historical analysis. I've noticed that the conspiracy theorists can never explain how FDR managed to get Hitler to inexplicably declare war on the US a few days later, thus painlessly getting us in the European war without a major fight in Congress.

Unfortunately for the conspiracy theorists, the old tired saw, "he musta been in on it" doesn't work it's usual magic in this case.



warspite1 -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 12:34:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shellshock


quote:

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

What say yee?



I'd say that YouTube is about the last place I'd go for any sort of deep historical analysis. I've noticed that the conspiracy theorists can never explain how FDR managed to get Hitler to inexplicably declare war on the US a few days later, thus painlessly getting us in the European war without a major fight in Congress.

Unfortunately for the conspiracy theorists, the old tired saw, "he musta been in on it" doesn't work it's usual magic in this case.
warspite1

Shellshock you are so naive - they were part of the same conspiracy of course..duh...



Chickenboy -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 1:48:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shellshock


quote:

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

What say yee?



I'd say that YouTube is about the last place I'd go for any sort of deep historical analysis. I've noticed that the conspiracy theorists can never explain how FDR managed to get Hitler to inexplicably declare war on the US a few days later, thus painlessly getting us in the European war without a major fight in Congress.

Unfortunately for the conspiracy theorists, the old tired saw, "he musta been in on it" doesn't work it's usual magic in this case.
warspite1

Shellshock you are so naive - they were part of the same conspiracy of course..duh...


Yup. Ambrose was the first to uncover this in his multi-volume, "Conspiracies that I Uncovered, cuz I's Super Clever" series. This was covered in volume 2: "Tojo was a girl and FDR Knew THAT too."




fodder -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 2:07:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

This clip has shown that FDR indeed knew about the attack as early as May 1941. And that Admiral Kimmel and General Short were completely let out of the information that FDR knew. What say yee?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUKEVoK4XMg



Not in May, but...................



melspence_MatrixForum -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 2:13:39 PM)

It's a load of small round things used for playing tennis with



crsutton -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 3:17:58 PM)

Revisionist crap....



Commander Stormwolf -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 5:06:50 PM)


whether president roosevelt had warnings or not, he was certainly glad pearl harbor happened

sort of like president netenyahu after sept 11

coincidence?





Joe D. -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 5:53:35 PM)

Supposedly Hoover was warned by the Brit spy who was the inspiration for Fleming's 007, but Hoover dismissed it because he disdained the agent's lavish lifestyle.



warspite1 -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 6:11:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf

....he was certainly glad pearl harbor happened

warspite1

I suspect glad wasn't the first emotion that FDR felt when he heard that 2,000 + of his fellow countrymen were dead, many more injured, his battleships sunk or badly damaged and the Philippines under attack - with no visible means of halting that invasion....

But then, if the conspiracy theorists are right, then of course he would be glad, because he got the war he wanted and, by definition, he would have been a mass murdering psycho who couldn't give a toss about ordinary American lives.

Why does this rubbish persist??



Bill Durrant -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 6:28:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

Supposedly Hoover was warned by the Brit spy who was the inspiration for Fleming's 007, but Hoover dismissed it because he disdained the agent's lavish lifestyle.


On this note just published - "Ian Fleming and SOE's Operation Postmaster" by Brian Lett. He talks about certain characters who he believes were the inspiration for 007. Have to admit though, the author is a friend of mine.



Commander Stormwolf -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 6:48:22 PM)


roosevelt was more concerned about the 6 million of his countrymen in the gas chambers



warspite1 -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 6:56:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf


roosevelt was more concerned about the 6 million of his countrymen in the gas chambers
warspite1

What countrymen? Are you referring to the 6 million Jews? in gas chambers in December 1941? I'm Confused [&:]



Commander Stormwolf -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 6:59:35 PM)



yep. i'm half jewish

flags come and go, just rags created by men - our secret is we put our own people first




Commander Stormwolf -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 7:03:07 PM)


you need to understand how it was back then,

my grandfather was a professor, he got killed by the nazis

the rest of the family paid our way out, germans may have been racist but they needed money like anyone else





House Stark -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 7:11:04 PM)

These conspiracy theories are rubbish, for one simple reason: Even if FDR knew the attack was coming, he had to know that it would force the US into the war regardless of how much damage was done. And FDR wanted to get in the war to win it, not to see his fleet wrecked at Pearl and unable to do anything. Americans weren't going to be any less outraged about the Japanese surprise attack if it was less successful. If FDR and/or other high ranking Americans had known, they probably would've had Pearl better prepared and more alert. I imagine it could've been done without looking too much like an attack was expected. Even something as simple as more ships at sea at all times, more aircraft patrolling, stuff that wouldn't look too out of place.



slinkytwf -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 7:46:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf
roosevelt was more concerned about the 6 million of his countrymen in the gas chambers


Roosevelt reportedly dressed down one of his advisors or cabinet members (I *think* it was Morgenthau) when they pressed him over the very slow US response to the ongoing Holocaust. I'm remembering reading about this a long time ago, and I don't have a link. But based on what I remember, I got the impression that this was not a primary motivation for Roosevelt, and in fact, he pushed back against it, being uncharacteristically rude toward the individual. Someone else with a better memory and time to scour the Internet may have a more substantive link for you. (For the record, one of my close friends' extended family was almost eradicated during that period, and I also take it very seriously.)



warspite1 -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 7:50:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf

yep. i'm half jewish

flags come and go, just rags created by men - our secret is we put our own people first

warspite1

So I still don't understand the reference to 6 million Jews in the gas chambers in October/November 1941, which is when presumably Roosevelt must have been planning the mass murder of his own people and a shed load of war material along with it? Do you know when the Wannsee conference was?



Shellshock -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 7:54:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


Why does this rubbish persist??



It persists for the same reason the 911 Truther and Birther conspiracies will persist long after Bush and Obama are departed from this earth. Because somebody has a political axe to grind. There's a whole new generation out there who resent the direction FDR took this country back in the 1930s.



Commander Stormwolf -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 7:54:04 PM)


grandfather ran left germany in the 1930s to kiev, killed in 1941

roosevelt needed to get our foreign manpower reserve into the war asap

germany first



warspite1 -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 7:57:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf


grandfather ran left germany in the 1930s to kiev, killed in 1941

roosevelt needed to get our foreign manpower reserve into the war asap

germany first
warspite1

Please I am trying to have a sensible debate and understand your position. For that to happen it would help if you could answer my reasonable query. WHY is Roosevelt thinking about 6 million Jews in the gas chambers in late summer/early autumn of 1941???



obvert -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 8:15:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf

....he was certainly glad pearl harbor happened

warspite1

I suspect glad wasn't the first emotion that FDR felt when he heard that 2,000 + of his fellow countrymen were dead, many more injured, his battleships sunk or badly damaged and the Philippines under attack - with no visible means of halting that invasion....

But then, if the conspiracy theorists are right, then of course he would be glad, because he got the war he wanted and, by definition, he would have been a mass murdering psycho who couldn't give a toss about ordinary American lives.

Why does this rubbish persist??



+1

End of discussion. Hopefully.



Commander Stormwolf -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 8:15:43 PM)


quote:

WHY is Roosevelt thinking about 6 million Jews in the gas chambers in late summer/early autumn of 1941???


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14kcoNEUw3M&bpctr=1352580239

hitler said he would

over and over again in his speeches


my grandfather had a friend in germany, who was a pervert

he made the german girls working for him perform sexual favors, or else be fired

one day the SA came and killed him, then my grandfather fled afterwards



we took away all the germans' money in 1929 and made them work for us

he had friends in poland who joked wasze ulice, nascze kamenice mocking the poles that we owned all their real estate


world war 2 happened because a whole generation of germans grew up hating us


roosevelt was our saviour, and japan was just a useful idiot

we would have attacked mexico, if they sided with hitler

















warspite1 -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 8:21:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf


quote:

WHY is Roosevelt thinking about 6 million Jews in the gas chambers in late summer/early autumn of 1941???


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14kcoNEUw3M&bpctr=1352580239

hitler said he would

over and over again in his speeches


my grandfather had a friend in germany, who was a pervert

he made the german girls working for him perform sexual favors, or else be fired

one day the SA came and killed him, then my grandfather fled afterwards



we took away all the germans' money in 1929 and made them work for us

he had friends in poland who joked wasze ulice, nascze kamenice mocking the poles that we owned all their real estate


world war 2 happened because a whole generation of germans grew up hating us


roosevelt was our saviour, and japan was just a useful idiot

we would have attacked mexico, if they sided with hitler

warspite1

Goodbye.....[sm=nono.gif]



Sardaukar -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 8:35:42 PM)

OK..this has gotten really weird, not to mention wrong forum for such discussion.




moonraker65 -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 8:37:35 PM)

The "Conspiracy Theory" about Pearl has done the rounds for many years. Is it just coincidence or did the US know in advance allowing Roosevelt to take America in to the war ?? I don't think we'll ever know for sure but you have to ponder the fact that the Japanese main targets were out of the way that day which does leave some doubts it has to be said



JeffroK -> RE: President FDR Knew About the Attack in May? (11/10/2012 8:48:40 PM)

Can some JFB tell us when the japanese planned the PH attack?

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/USSBS/PTO-Campaigns/USSBS-PTO-2.html

The attack was conceived and proposed by Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, CinC of the Japanese Combined Fleet. In January 1941, Rear Admiral Tokijiro Onishi, Chief of Staff of the 11th Air Fleet was ordered to make a preliminary study of the operation, and in the first part of September 1941 members of the Operations Section of the Naval General Staff and selected members of the Staffs of the Combined Fleet and the First Air Fleet commenced work on the details of the actual plan.

On 3 November, Admiral Nagano, Chief of the Naval General Staff, in cooperation with Admiral Yamamoto, definitely decided to attack Pearl Harbor if diplomatic negotiations with the United States failed. On 1 December 1941, Admiral Yamamoto finally approved the general plan as outlined above.



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