Sudden Unexplained Sinking of a Carrier in UV 2.11 (Full Version)

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Cap Mandrake -> Sudden Unexplained Sinking of a Carrier in UV 2.11 (12/19/2002 5:47:57 AM)

Is a catastrophic bulkhead failure (or something akin to that) modeled in a damaged carrier?? The reason I ask...as IJN player in the "four weeks of hell" scenario, the Shokaku (with approx. 50 % flotation damage, no fires and perhaps 15% system damage (she was able to manage about 13 kts.) was transitioning back to Truk. Well North of Buka, without being spotted by enemy air and without any report of a sub attack, I got a report in the middle of the end-turn resolution "shokaku sinks". No word about the commander, no great cry of lamentation (except on my part). I'm playing a PBEM, and this may well cost me the game (the entire plane complement was trapped on board).

Sure enough, during the planning phase....in that TF there is nothing left but a destroyer..not even some flotsam. BTW, I did not have the Battle Animation screen on.

What gives?? Poor welds, cheap steel, giant squids, great white whale?



XPav -> (12/19/2002 7:28:45 AM)

Send the save to Matrix.



Ross Moorhouse -> (12/19/2002 9:44:10 AM)

I would say you are a victim of the FOW. I have seen this before.



SoulBlazer -> (12/19/2002 9:50:32 AM)

For your own side?

If I understand Cap's post, he IS playing as Japan.



gus -> (12/19/2002 4:09:46 PM)

Hey Cap,

A damaged ship as yours will continue to incur flotation damage while at sea during the transit home so your first order of business is to get her to the nearest friendly port where the float damage can be repaired and only then send her to Truk as necessary.

In the sceanrio you are playing I imagine that your CV was damaged somewhere in the vicinity of the lower Solomon Island chain which is a good 7-10 day steam from Truk provided there was no further decrease in speed. During this transit her flotation damage probably increased to 100% and she sank.

Check your old PBEM save game files and see if this is the case.

Gus



Cap Mandrake -> (12/19/2002 9:47:35 PM)

Gus;

I first detoured to Shortlands to put the fires out..the 50% flotation damage refers to the damage at the start of that movement phase! I had the idea that the flotation damage would be repaired faster at Truk, which is the reason for taking the risk to send her North. Do you think it's possible to go from 50 to 100% in one movement phase? :( (these were 1-day turns of course)



Erik Rutins -> Response... (12/19/2002 9:52:49 PM)

It is indeed possible with IJN damage control to have a catastrophic "roll" and go from 50% to 100% in a day, sinking the ship. Very rare, but possible. If the captain survived, perhaps you can have a chat with him about who left the portholes open. ;)

Regards,

- Erik



mdiehl -> (12/19/2002 10:02:05 PM)

No! Not "IJN Britannic"!



Cap Mandrake -> (12/19/2002 10:04:12 PM)

Wow Erik;

Guess I shoulda taken my chances at Shortland. At least I feel somewhat better knowing it's within the range of mathematical possibility. Exactly how many "dice" are in this "roll"? Are we talkin 1 in 100...one in 1000?


I am going right now to change that order in the other PBEM game and send another damged flattop back to Kavieng....and I am going to buy that asteroid collison insurance my agent was trying to sell me :)



Hoplosternum -> (12/19/2002 11:51:43 PM)

Cap Mandrake,

You seem to have been very unlucky here to have sunk on the first turn, but personaly I think you took a huge risk. I have seen ships putting on double digit floatation (and sys damage when float increased) per turn. The journey from Shortlands to Truk would take a few turns for a damaged ship and once it falls below a certain amount it starts moving at 2 hexes per turn! So if you travel out one day at one speed it may take many days to return if things start going wrong. I don't like to move any ship with any floatation damage unless it is going to be sunk anyway (i.e. it's port is under regular air attack).



gnuseditor -> Hmmm.... (12/20/2002 12:04:11 AM)

Shokaku sinks? HORRIBLE news!!!! (heh heh)

OK, now send me your next turn, Cap!!! :)



Admiral DadMan -> (12/20/2002 12:16:43 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cap Mandrake
[B]Gus;

I first detoured to Shortlands to put the fires out..the 50% flotation damage refers to the damage at the start of that movement phase! I had the idea that the flotation damage would be repaired faster at Truk, which is the reason for taking the risk to send her North. Do you think it's possible to go from 50 to 100% in one movement phase? :( (these were 1-day turns of course) [/B][/QUOTE] HOLY COW MAN! As IJN, NEVER leave a ship at sea with more than 25 Flt damage. Remember the words,"Progressive flooding".



Yamamoto -> (12/20/2002 1:24:44 AM)

Ships repair flotation damage VERY quickly in port compared to system damage. I never move ships with flotation damage out of port until the damage reaches zero. Usually it only takes a few days. Considering the slower speed the ship would go with flotation damage you'll proabably still make it to Truk faster than you would have by not waiting a few days to repair the flotation damage.

Yamamoto



Cap Mandrake -> Re: Hmmm.... (12/20/2002 2:58:21 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gnuseditor
[B]Shokaku sinks? HORRIBLE news!!!! (heh heh)

OK, now send me your next turn, Cap!!! :) [/B][/QUOTE]



Gnuse...you SOB :D I thought I did send you the turn...I'll check when I get home.


The general feeling seems to be that I was a complete dunderhead to leave port with 50% flotation damage :o Given the outcome, I am inclined to take your advice in the future. In my defence, I was concerned about 17's from Lunga and in fact, Shortland was hammered by the Washington and some of her buddies immediately after departure.

This does bring up another question.....is it safe to send ships back to Pearl or Japan (in the longer scenarios) with flotation damage??



Cap Mandrake -> (12/20/2002 3:12:59 AM)

Another question for the vets on this same sceanrio...how many runway hits does it take to silence a level 4 airfield. Lunga airfield runway has taken over 200 bomb and shell hits in the last 48 hrs and still is active. Admiral Yamamoto wont release any tactical nukes either.



Bax -> (12/20/2002 3:43:45 AM)

quote:

This does bring up another question.....is it safe to send ships back to Pearl or Japan (in the longer scenarios) with flotation damage??


No, it's not safe. Nor is it smart. If you send a ship back to Japan while it still has floatation damage, it will take much longer to repair and be sent back to you. Only send a ship back to Japan if the floatation damage has been repaired first.

Oh, and Mandrake....you realize what this means, don't you? It means that you'll have to answer to the Coca-Cola Company for this!

lol, couldn't resist, sorry. :D



mbatch729 -> (12/20/2002 3:57:13 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bax
[B]No, it's not safe. Nor is it smart. If you send a ship back to Japan while it still has floatation damage, it will take much longer to repair and be sent back to you. Only send a ship back to Japan if the floatation damage has been repaired first.

[/B][/QUOTE]

A slight disagreement here, and it is a little "gamey" to do it. But, given the horrible damage control of the IJN, if you have a badly damaged ship where the floatation damage is increasing, the only way to "save" it may be to send it back to Japan. For reasons unknown, a ship sent back will never sink along the way. So, realistically, you can leave it in port to repair damage, or take advantage of a game quirk and return it for repair.

To my opponents: I've never used this in a PBEM game. Seems "wrong" to take advantage of this to correct my mistakes. Besides, most of my cripples don't last long enough to make it to port...



gnuseditor -> implosion (12/20/2002 3:58:02 AM)

Cap,

If it makes you feel any better, I had no idea either that flotation could go downhill so quickly ...and after your mini AAR, I'm really interested to see the state of my airfield on Lunga.

You raise a good point about sending ships back to the mianland/Pearl ... I hope we get a comment from one of the vets.



Toro -> (12/20/2002 6:17:13 AM)

I believe that a ship suffering from flooding or fire damage that's sent to Pearl/Japan will take longer to arrive, thus extending the "repair" time. (Read this in a thread many moons ago.) Better to give the ship a couple in-port days to save the lost time in a "slower" transit back.



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