RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (Full Version)

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Lokasenna -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 3:15:52 AM)
It depends on what the TBFs were launching at. If the DDs, then the results are completely unsurprising.

crsutton -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 5:53:24 AM)
260 total torpedo bomber attacks and not one hit on a fairly slow TF. (Slower, with the three hits on a DD.) That may be the most pitiful display of Allied torpedo marksmanship that I have ever seen. Someone needs to lose his job over this one....Preferably "not" sent back to the States to help with training.

Miller -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 2:11:38 PM)
US TBF torpedo accuracy is horrific throughout most of the game against fast moving targets. I tend to set them to use bombs unless I expect them to attack BBs.

Mike McCreery -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 2:34:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Miller US TBF torpedo accuracy is horrific throughout most of the game against fast moving targets. I tend to set them to use bombs unless I expect them to attack BBs. Wouldnt that mean the pilots were using NavB instead of NavT?

Lowpe -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 3:15:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crsutton 260 total torpedo bomber attacks and not one hit on a fairly slow TF. (Slower, with the three hits on a DD.) That may be the most pitiful display of Allied torpedo marksmanship that I have ever seen. Someone needs to lose his job over this one....Preferably "not" sent back to the States to help with training. Hitting with torpedo planes is very tough, especially with enhanced AA that the IJN has in this mod, and the weather surely didn't cooperate either. Not to mention we don't know the status of training, fatigue, etc.

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 3:24:24 PM)
My TBF pilots are high quality and have low fatigue, so those weren't the issues. I don't know about weather yet. John is communicating again, but he's clearly suffering from morale problems. I don't know if he realizes it or if it's subconcious. He says he hasn't looked at the combat report yet, but I suspect he has. This is inevitable in most games. But in a game with John III, even more likely. As we've discussed before, he's a navy guy. His navy has been hit hard and he's just losing his thrill for the game. I know we Allied players don't like it when we've paid our dues only to have the IJ player suffer a sudden case of "real life is getting in my way." I know that feeling, but I also understand the nature of my opponent. I do not have high hopes for us getting much further into the game. The last turn we played was Tuesday, July 5. I'm not convinced that John is having computer issues (just being candid here - I have no way of actually knowing; I may be completely wrong; but the between the lines things I'm seeing from him are consistent with him just doing everything he can to avoid playing the game). The irony is that this is the sweetest victory of all.

Mike McCreery -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 3:46:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel My TBF pilots are high quality and have low fatigue, so those weren't the issues. I don't know about weather yet. John is communicating again, but he's clearly suffering from morale problems. I don't know if he realizes it or if it's subconcious. He says he hasn't looked at the combat report yet, but I suspect he has. This is inevitable in most games. But in a game with John III, even more likely. As we've discussed before, he's a navy guy. His navy has been hit hard and he's just losing his thrill for the game. I know we Allied players don't like it when we've paid our dues only to have the IJ player suffer a sudden case of "real life is getting in my way." I know that feeling, but I also understand the nature of my opponent. I do not have high hopes for us getting much further into the game. The last turn we played was Tuesday, July 5. I'm not convinced that John is having computer issues (just being candid here - I have no way of actually knowing; I may be completely wrong; but the between the lines things I'm seeing from him are consistent with him just doing everything he can to avoid playing the game). The irony is that this is the sweetest victory of all. I dont consider it an opsec violation to let you know that John is setting up an exit on his side of the AAR. He doesnt have any motivation. It is summer. The kids are 9 & 12 and getting older. The biggest weekend of the year is coming up... There are people who enjoy the game and people who enjoy the win. John enjoys the win. I thought that at least he would stick with your game CR since he seemed to have the ability to whip out 3-6 turns a day against multiple opponents when things were going great. 'T' was looking for a pickup game of either side in any condition recently over in the 'Opponents Wanted' section. If you have any interest in keeping this one going you may want to see if he has any interest.

Lecivius -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 3:58:35 PM)
I doubt he will ever get another game if he does leave this one.

Andav -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 4:01:44 PM)
I am not sure I would call it setting up an exit. I think it is just a busy time in his real life. Things go in cycles. Right now, things are busy for him. Is it coincidence that it happens at the same time as a defeat? Who knows. Maybe he is playing the really long game and using the game issues to justify to the wife a new computer purchase! I think that is how Nemo would have played this ... Wa

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 4:01:56 PM)
John was still excited two weeks ago as the "herd" was steaming west through the Carolines. At that point, I think he had visions of knocking out the coming invasions with good defensive prep and then pouncing with his carriers. As the herd closed on New Guinea, you might recall his "Sumatra '43" posts, suggesting he thought he could hem in and then destroy the Allies. And there were his his emails (and AAR predictions) that I'd be landing at Biak and Manikwari and "perhaps" Sorong. I think Big Tent exceeded anything he envisioned. He didn't see it coming and it's rattled his world. Then the Great Moluccas Turkey Shoot of November 20, in which he lost all those KB Judys, really seemed to get under his skin, judging by his emails. That was the last turn we played...although I think he's played and seen the turn of the 21st, when his BBs get hit at Sorong. He says he hasn't, but I think that was the final straw that sucked all the wind out of his sails. Since I delivered that turn, he just hasn't been the same guy in emails, on the forums (judging by AAR activity and non-activity) and in playing the game. Big Tent has been successful, though it's still in risky territory so that the wheels can come off in startling ways. What I think John's conduct is proving is that it could be successful beyond any objective things I can see. His defenses must have gaping holes. His navy must be in disarray. And perhaps he has huge supply and fuel problems. As for the possiblity that his sudden morale problems coincide with real life, I know there's always that possibility. But I don't think that's the case.

Miller -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 4:18:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wargmr quote: ORIGINAL: Miller US TBF torpedo accuracy is horrific throughout most of the game against fast moving targets. I tend to set them to use bombs unless I expect them to attack BBs. Wouldnt that mean the pilots were using NavB instead of NavT? Yes,so you would have to train them in that skill but the allies usually have plenty of time to do this if managed correctly.

Miller -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 4:21:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel John was still excited two weeks ago as the "herd" was steaming west through the Carolines. At that point, I think he had visions of knocking out the coming invasions with good defensive prep and then pouncing with his carriers. As the herd closed on New Guinea, you might recall his "Sumatra '43" posts, suggesting he thought he could hem in and then destroy the Allies. And there were his his emails (and AAR predictions) that I'd be landing at Biak and Manikwari and "perhaps" Sorong. I think Big Tent exceeded anything he envisioned. He didn't see it coming and it's rattled his world. Then the Great Moluccas Turkey Shoot of November 20, in which he lost all those KB Judys, really seemed to get under his skin, judging by his emails. That was the last turn we played...although I think he's played and seen the turn of the 21st, when his BBs get hit at Sorong. He says he hasn't, but I think that was the final straw that sucked all the wind out of his sails. Since I delivered that turn, he just hasn't been the same guy in emails, on the forums (judging by AAR activity and non-activity) and in playing the game. Big Tent has been successful, though it's still in risky territory so that the wheels can come off in startling ways. What I think John's conduct is proving is that it could be successful beyond any objective things I can see. His defenses must have gaping holes. His navy must be in disarray. And perhaps he has huge supply and fuel problems. As for the possiblity that his sudden morale problems coincide with real life, I know there's always that possibility. But I don't think that's the case. He can still get big licks in if he co-ordinates his LBA and CV forces correctly in future, but that usually involves lots and lots of logistical work which his heart is simply not into doing at the moment.

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 4:23:28 PM)
Yeah, I need to make this clear: The war is not over. The Allies have not won. Death Star is hanging out in dangerous territory and will be for weeks and months to come. It's going to be a grind to get the bases up and running and self-sufficient. But the operation is off to a good start and things do look promising.

BillBrown -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 4:44:47 PM)
I do hope he does continue.

Lokasenna -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 4:55:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Miller US TBF torpedo accuracy is horrific throughout most of the game against fast moving targets. I tend to set them to use bombs unless I expect them to attack BBs. I do the same, unless I think they might land some hits. They're decent at getting hits on already damaged targets, but my "feeling" on the likelihood of hits goes something like this, in order of least likely to most likely: -Fast DDs -Damaged DDs -Cruisers -Flak-heavy CVs -Fast and/or flak-heavy BBs -Regular BBs -Carriers with light flak -Damaged CVs/cruisers -Damaged BBs Basically, the higher the maneuver rating of the ship and the more flak it has, the harder it is for TBs to hit. Note also that the accuracy of the USN aerial torpedo is less than the IJN aerial torpedo, so it will be easier for IJN TBs to hit (all else equal). My basic conclusion is that TBFs/TBMs do just fine at hitting damaged CVs/cruisers (easy enough from 1000-lb DBs) and BBs that have been slowed down (surface action for float/engine damage or previous torpedo hit). I'll happily have TBFs drop bombs from between 5-10K feet, though. Fires are useful.

BBfanboy -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 4:58:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Miller quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel John was still excited two weeks ago as the "herd" was steaming west through the Carolines. At that point, I think he had visions of knocking out the coming invasions with good defensive prep and then pouncing with his carriers. As the herd closed on New Guinea, you might recall his "Sumatra '43" posts, suggesting he thought he could hem in and then destroy the Allies. And there were his his emails (and AAR predictions) that I'd be landing at Biak and Manikwari and "perhaps" Sorong. I think Big Tent exceeded anything he envisioned. He didn't see it coming and it's rattled his world. Then the Great Moluccas Turkey Shoot of November 20, in which he lost all those KB Judys, really seemed to get under his skin, judging by his emails. That was the last turn we played...although I think he's played and seen the turn of the 21st, when his BBs get hit at Sorong. He says he hasn't, but I think that was the final straw that sucked all the wind out of his sails. Since I delivered that turn, he just hasn't been the same guy in emails, on the forums (judging by AAR activity and non-activity) and in playing the game. Big Tent has been successful, though it's still in risky territory so that the wheels can come off in startling ways. What I think John's conduct is proving is that it could be successful beyond any objective things I can see. His defenses must have gaping holes. His navy must be in disarray. And perhaps he has huge supply and fuel problems. As for the possiblity that his sudden morale problems coincide with real life, I know there's always that possibility. But I don't think that's the case. He can still get big licks in if he co-ordinates his LBA and CV forces correctly in future, but that usually involves lots and lots of logistical work which his heart is simply not into doing at the moment. Sounds like you would be an apt candidate to take over the IJ side of the game, Miller! Just set a couple of house rules to reduce the effect of your knowledge of Allied plans for a few weeks and have at 'er! [:)]

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 5:04:23 PM)
Oh, I've played Miller in this exact environment. He is a tenacious defender. But I'm not giving up on John yet. He may rally. He's a good guy under pressure and probably feels a bit harried at the moment.

Mike McCreery -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 6:13:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel Oh, I've played Miller in this exact environment. He is a tenacious defender. But I'm not giving up on John yet. He may rally. He's a good guy under pressure and probably feels a bit harried at the moment. Games wax and wane and I think it would be hard for him to justify starting a new game given his current situation. My guess is that he gets into designing or testing another scenario. Good luck to you sir on the continuation of your conquest! It is only over when it is over!! And then sometimes there is a reunion ;]

Lowpe -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 6:27:53 PM)
Oh, boy.[:(] The game is just now getting interesting!

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 7:39:16 PM)
I have a few thoughts, but this is not a post-mortem. I'm hoping that the game will continue. But the current situation prompted me to mull over different aspects of the game as it has played out to date. First, I'm on record referring to John as a legendary player. "Legendary" does not necessarily correlate to ability, though it can. But my use of the word mainly refers to the fact that he has achieved a certain level of awareness amongst the community due in large part to his wildly aggressive style with a nod also to his mod work. John is a legendary member of the AE community. But I wonder if he is making his mark as a wildly aggressive player who often throws his opponents into consternation early on at the expense of his ability to sustain the war effort. If so, then his ability as a player is justifiably called into question. If his early successes are at the expense of the ships, supply, and fuel necessary to successfully defend the Empire in '44 and '45, then the kudos he gets and the Banzais! he yells in May '42 may not be justified. Second, there's been the interesting discussion in here about the impact Sumatra had in this game. Here's how it had the greatest impact. When I realized that the jig was up in Sumatra in January '43, I cast about for some way to take advantage of John's need to focus there. I found the gaping hole in his defenses in NoPac. Because I had played John before, and because I knew he was involved in three games with precious little time to do his homework and attend to messy details like defense in depth, I knew it was almost certain that the holes were genuine. So I spent four months of game time shifting the entire Allied army and navy from the Indian Ocean to San Francisco and Seattle. And I felt pretty sure that the Allied suprise attack in NoPac would prompt a frantic response by John that would allow me to then invade in CenPac. Beyond that, I couldn't see for certain. If you remember, I figured the next invasion would be Amchitka. 5th Indian was in Prince Rupert for many months fully prepped for that op, but it ended up in Morotai 56% prepped. Had I been playing certain other players - hypothetically, let's say it was Nemo and that somehow I managed to configure that massed landing in Sumatra - the situation would have been totally differnt. When I realized that Sumatra was a losing battle and cast around for some other place to invade, one of two things would have happened: (1) I would have found obvious indications that NoPac was defended in depth, or (2) NoPac would have been clearly undefended but I would have figured that Nemo had orchestrated just such a deception to suck me in. So what happened in this game happened precisely because John and I have been frequent opponents. I knew there was a good chance that Sumatra would work out in favor of the Allies. I wouldn't have known that against many other players.

Mike McCreery -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 7:47:03 PM)
I for one am glad you have come back to this addiction ;]

Lecivius -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 7:57:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wargmr I for one am glad you have come back to this addiction ;] And shared your game with the rest of us [:)]

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 8:05:08 PM)
And a tip of the cap to John and all you Japanese players. As best I can tell it takes alot of moxie to sit in your seat. Handling the economy, the immense need to achieve early, and the awareness that ever single tick of the clock is working against you is pretty daunting stuff. Thanks, guys, for making it possible for us Allied DNA folks to have opponents.

dave sindel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 9:09:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lecivius quote: ORIGINAL: Wargmr I for one am glad you have come back to this addiction ;] And shared your game with the rest of us [:)] +1

obvert -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 10:37:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel But I wonder if he is making his mark as a wildly aggressive player who often throws his opponents into consternation early on at the expense of his ability to sustain the war effort. If so, then his ability as a player is justifiably called into question. If his early successes are at the expense of the ships, supply, and fuel necessary to successfully defend the Empire in '44 and '45, then the kudos he gets and the Banzais! he yells in May '42 may not be justified. I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. I'd love to get your game into tracker on the Japanese side and have a look around. [;)] quote: Second, there's been the interesting discussion in here about the impact Sumatra had in this game. Here's how it had the greatest impact. When I realized that the jig was up in Sumatra in January '43, I cast about for some way to take advantage of John's need to focus there. I found the gaping hole in his defenses in NoPac. Because I had played John before, and because I knew he was involved in three games with precious little time to do his homework and attend to messy details like defense in depth, I knew it was almost certain that the holes were genuine. So I spent four months of game time shifting the entire Allied army and navy from the Indian Ocean to San Francisco and Seattle. And I felt pretty sure that the Allied suprise attack in NoPac would prompt a frantic response by John that would allow me to then invade in CenPac. Beyond that, I couldn't see for certain. If you remember, I figured the next invasion would be Amchitka. 5th Indian was in Prince Rupert for many months fully prepped for that op, but it ended up in Morotai 56% prepped. Had I been playing certain other players - hypothetically, let's say it was Nemo and that somehow I managed to configure that massed landing in Sumatra - the situation would have been totally differnt. When I realized that Sumatra was a losing battle and cast around for some other place to invade, one of two things would have happened: (1) I would have found obvious indications that NoPac was defended in depth, or (2) NoPac would have been clearly undefended but I would have figured that Nemo had orchestrated just such a deception to suck me in. So what happened in this game happened precisely because John and I have been frequent opponents. I knew there was a good chance that Sumatra would work out in favor of the Allies. I wouldn't have known that against many other players. Your knowledge of his style has informed everything you've done, and it's working. You're always very good at shifting to take advantage of what your opponent gives. In my only Allied game against GreyJoy, sadly unfinished and suspended in late 43, I remember thinking of an entire strategy of how I wanted to play, but in the game I began to realize what he was neglecting, or letting me have, and I took more than he would have thought much more quickly than I'd planned to do it in my original designs. This game is so much about psychology, and reading your opponent's style, quirks and tendencies. I have said all along I hope this goes into 45, but if he opts out, there will be plenty of takers to continue the game. My question is, would you want to do that given your lpay being so directed at his style?

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 11:14:14 PM)
Hopefully John recovers his enthusiasm and we motor deep into '44 or '45. But if he doesn't, in theory I'd have no problem having a good and experienced player take over for him. But whether I would do that, I dunno. This game consumes me to much. It is a vortex of immense proportions. For those of you who have the gift of moderation, I envy you. I don't. I can't. No matter what it isn't possible. So if John were to fly a white flag, I'd take a bit of time to gather my thoughts, get a little separation from the exhaustion and stimulation that comes from playing the game, and then try to make a reasoned decision of whether I can afford to play this game. Best. Game. Ever.

BillBrown -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 11:43:22 PM)
How can you not play this game?

obvert -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/11/2016 11:46:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BillBrown How can you not play this game? [:D] When I'm in it I love it and it sits in the back of my mind from waking until sleep. When I take a break, it's not so hard, and it slips away from my thinking. It is a tough one, because life has a lot to offer, but this game centers my mind in a way nothing has since my competitive days in front of a chessboard. It's a bit hard to get other stuff done though when I've got it going! [;)]

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/12/2016 12:48:33 AM)
That's exactly how I feel, Eric. And beyond that, this game has been unique in my experience in that there's never been a doldrums or quiet spell. I haven't been able to sleep. We resumed on 1/3/1943 and there hasn't been a single turn where the two sides weren't in close contact with big things happening. In real life, we resumed the game around December 15, 2015. I haven't had a good night's sleep since then. There have been occasional nights where I've gotten an hour or two. That's on me. I am not well disciplined in this regard. But the tension and excitement have been intoxicating. Emoticon that Describes this Game: [X(] Emoticon that does not Describe this Game: [>:]

Capt. Harlock -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (7/12/2016 2:05:07 AM)
quote: Bill sent the combat report, which has an interesting battle between Death Star strike aircraft and an IJ bombardment TF at Sorong near the end. All those Avengers and you couldn't get a single torpedo hit?? Stern disciplinary measures are in order. . .[sm=00000612.gif]

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