RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii

RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (Full Version)

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Canoerebel -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/3/2012 9:58:21 PM)
How in the world could Japan have invaded and held the Hawaiian Islands if they barely managed to get a division ashore at Guadalcanal over an extended period - and never managed to get the division's heavy gear ashore? Guadalcanal and Pearl might not be completely similar since Japan might have been able to get more ashore at Guad had they managed to control the air, but the operation as a whole illustrated just how poor Japan was for managing a major amphibious operation. Hawaii? No way.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/3/2012 10:02:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel How in the world could Japan have invaded and held the Hawaiian Islands if they barely managed to get a division ashore at Guadalcanal over an extended period - and never managed to get the division's heavy gear ashore? Guadalcanal and Pearl might not be completely similar since Japan might have been able to get more ashore at Guad had they managed to control the air, but the operation as a whole illustrated just how poor Japan was for managing a major amphibious operation. Hawaii? No way. Anyone who has visited Oahu would scoff at two divisions being able to do anything except secure the core harbor and naval base. Nothing else. Oahu is a big island, even in 1941 it was densely populated compared to places like Saipan, and the civilians were fiercly loyal Americans. It has mountains where it is easy to hide, and a lot of civilian weapons. Military personnel taking off their uniforms look exactly like farm workers until they cut your throat. There are lots of beaches where small quantities of military supplies could have been landed from the WC at night. Occupation troops would have bled.

btbw -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 3:02:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel How in the world could Japan have invaded and held the Hawaiian Islands if they barely managed to get a division ashore at Guadalcanal over an extended period - and never managed to get the division's heavy gear ashore? Guadalcanal and Pearl might not be completely similar since Japan might have been able to get more ashore at Guad had they managed to control the air, but the operation as a whole illustrated just how poor Japan was for managing a major amphibious operation. Hawaii? No way. If Japan intel reported about battalion of US troops in Guadalcanal and genius Yamamoto save his battleships in Truk (Hasiro Fleet how it called) then yes - no way to bring ID to Guadalcanal (no reason and no ability). Question is why brave Marines spent 3 ID and a few month against so weak enemy? quote: Oahu is a big island, even in 1941 it was densely populated compared to places like Saipan, and the civilians were fiercly loyal Americans. It has mountains where it is easy to hide, and a lot of civilian weapons. Military personnel taking off their uniforms look exactly like farm workers until they cut your throat. There are lots of beaches where small quantities of military supplies could have been landed from the WC at night. Occupation troops would have bled. Civilians aganst japanese soldier? Dont make me laugh. Oahu and loyal? Seriously? What about FIVE internment camps. Or natives, do you remember how PH become as american and what status it have?

mike scholl 1 -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 3:09:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: btbw quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel How in the world could Japan have invaded and held the Hawaiian Islands if they barely managed to get a division ashore at Guadalcanal over an extended period - and never managed to get the division's heavy gear ashore? Guadalcanal and Pearl might not be completely similar since Japan might have been able to get more ashore at Guad had they managed to control the air, but the operation as a whole illustrated just how poor Japan was for managing a major amphibious operation. Hawaii? No way. If Japan intel reported about battalion of US troops in Guadalcanal and genius Yamamoto save his battleships in Truk (Hasiro Fleet how it called) then yes - no way to bring ID to Guadalcanal (no reason and no ability). Question is why brave Marines spent 3 ID and a few month against so weak enemy? Have you ever read a book about the Pacific War? The Japanese brought (or tried to bring) two plus Divisions to Guadalcanal, which is what dragged out the operation for 6 months. As I said earlier, the only chance the Japanese ever had to get ashore successfully in Oahu was if they had done it by 8 December of 1941. And the act of trying to bring a large troop convoy halfway across the Pacific to do so would have almost guaranteed the loss of suprise at PH and doomed the invasion anyway.

btbw -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 3:32:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1 Have you ever read a book about the Pacific War? The Japanese brought (or tried to bring) two plus Divisions to Guadalcanal, which is what dragged out the operation for 6 months. As I said earlier, the only chance the Japanese ever had to get ashore successfully in Oahu was if they had done it by 8 December of 1941. And the act of trying to bring a large troop convoy halfway across the Pacific to do so would have almost guaranteed the loss of suprise at PH and doomed the invasion anyway. If you miss japanese imagine of situation then you read wrong books. Intel about enemy force determine counterattack size. And if 17 army think they can kill with Ichiki Det. landed 2000 americans - it problem of Intel but not convoys. When Japan redirect REAL force to Guadalcanal it was too late - operating HF and lack of own airfields in range of figthers/DBs make convoy trip to here deadly. So you think 1st Marine Division was losers which cannot be compared with resting troops in Pacific paradise? About detection of convoys - again found map with trade routes (naval recon around Hawaii dont started till war, air recon was sporadic). Merchants dont have surveliance equipment for find and track enemy ships when japanese escort can. Even one float patrol plane extend vision of convoy a few times more. DO you know what happen when Brits seen invading fleet? NOTHING. War dont started yet.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 3:52:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: btbw Civilians aganst japanese soldier? Dont make me laugh. Read what I wrote. Oahu and loyal? Seriously? Yeah. I've lived there twice. The second time I worked with people who were kids and teens there during the war. What have you got? What about FIVE internment camps. Which opened in mid-1943, long after Japan could have inivaded. They held a few hundred prisoners, mostly Germans, Italians, and Korean workers captured during the Gilberts campaign. Hardly the internment camp effort of the mainland. Which BTW produced the most decorated US Army unit of the war. Or natives, do you remember how PH become as american and what status it have? Like I said, I lived there. During the war the residents of Hawaii considered themselves American.

btbw -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 3:57:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: btbw Civilians aganst japanese soldier? Dont make me laugh. Read what I wrote. Oahu and loyal? Seriously? Yeah. I've lived there twice. The second time I worked with people who were kids and teens there during the war. What have you got? What about FIVE internment camps. Which opened in mid-1943, long after Japan could have inivaded. They held a few hundred prisoners, mostly Germans, Italians, and Korean workers captured during the Gilberts campaign. Hardly the internment camp effort of the mainland. Which BTW produced the most decorated US Army unit of the war. Or natives, do you remember how PH become as american and what status it have? Like I said, I lived there. During the war the residents of Hawaii considered themselves American. Please talk about 170000 (1/3 of population) japanese on Hawaii imprisoned at 5 camps after war started. Even mainland interned 10000 lesser japs. Who this civilians join if Japan invade? Italians and german? Korean? It ridiculous. Most interned people was japs. And how annexed territory can be LOYAL? What about season workes poor like hell? They support USA too? So USA limited their ability for move from islands? Great patriotic population! Im understand your feelings but WW2 it not modern time and have alot questions which look now as impossible.

mike scholl 1 -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 4:20:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: btbw quote: ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1 Have you ever read a book about the Pacific War? The Japanese brought (or tried to bring) two plus Divisions to Guadalcanal, which is what dragged out the operation for 6 months. As I said earlier, the only chance the Japanese ever had to get ashore successfully in Oahu was if they had done it by 8 December of 1941. And the act of trying to bring a large troop convoy halfway across the Pacific to do so would have almost guaranteed the loss of suprise at PH and doomed the invasion anyway. If you miss japanese imagine of situation then you read wrong books. Intel about enemy force determine counterattack size. And if 17 army think they can kill with Ichiki Det. landed 2000 americans - it problem of Intel but not convoys. When Japan redirect REAL force to Guadalcanal it was too late - operating HF and lack of own airfields in range of figthers/DBs make convoy trip to here deadly. So you think 1st Marine Division was losers which cannot be compared with resting troops in Pacific paradise? About detection of convoys - again found map with trade routes (naval recon around Hawaii dont started till war, air recon was sporadic). Merchants dont have surveliance equipment for find and track enemy ships when japanese escort can. Even one float patrol plane extend vision of convoy a few times more. DO you know what happen when Brits seen invading fleet? NOTHING. War dont started yet. Yes, I do know what happened when the Brits tracked the Singora landing force for a week before the war. They couldn't determine if it was going to Thailand or Malaya, and they weren't going to start a war over Thailand. But a massive Japanese troop convoy in the Central Pacific? No way that can be anything but what it is..., an act of war! So much for suprise at PH. I will agree with you that Japanese intelligence SUCKED. But as to the 1st Marines, they kicked the snot out of everything the Japanese through at them. The "brave" Japanese troops were brave enough, but their leaders were morons who threw them away in pennypackets.

panzer cat -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 4:26:38 AM)
Even if Japan could have lifted 2 or 3 divs across the VAST Pacific ocean, she did not have the landing craft(and probably not the doctrine, see Guadalcanal) to get this force ashore, supplied, resupplied. It has also been pointed out that the Pacific ocean can be very rough in december. Lets not forget the subs interdicting Hawaii, lots of islands to place subtenders. And you better take Pearl quickly, otherwise it's a long way to Truk to resupply your warships.

btbw -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 4:31:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1 Yes, I do know what happened when the Brits tracked the Singora landing force for a week before the war. They couldn't determine if it was going to Thailand or Malaya, and they weren't going to start a war over Thailand. But a massive Japanese troop convoy in the Central Pacific? No way that can be anything but what it is..., an act of war! So much for suprise at PH. I will agree with you that Japanese intelligence SUCKED. But as to the 1st Marines, they kicked the snot out of everything the Japanese through at them. The "brave" Japanese troops were brave enough, but their leaders were morons who threw them away in pennypackets. Brave Marine was so quick and agressive so wait another 2 IDs and then start advance till japs dont evacuate. Please divide emotions and patriotic from facts. In 1941-1942 US troops on Pacific was unadequately weak and untrained. Only continous training and experience from previous battles make them strong like in 1944+. ACT OF WAR in 1941 dont have any signs of detected fleet since USA dont have ANY DETECTION SYSTEM. Pacific Ocean different from limited seas like Siam Gulf. And found here (by who?) even a fleet was almost impossible without SPECIAL forces detached to do that and in big numbers. USA patrolling waters around Hawaii but less then 1-day trip for troop convoy and by very limited planes in limited arcs. All that was very known by jap intel since they study it (zillion time better then Guadalcanal). IMHO Japan count they dont need PH and it why they dont try invade here but if they prepare invasion like KB strike then it have a chance ot success. Typical "What if".

btbw -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 4:47:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: panzer cat Even if Japan could have lifted 2 or 3 divs across the VAST Pacific ocean, she did not have the landing craft(and probably not the doctrine, see Guadalcanal) to get this force ashore, supplied, resupplied. It has also been pointed out that the Pacific ocean can be very rough in december. Lets not forget the subs interdicting Hawaii, lots of islands to place subtenders. And you better take Pearl quickly, otherwise it's a long way to Truk to resupply your warships. I dont know what then do Henderson Field residents if dont sink landing crafts? You must decide - Japan tried reinforce troops on Guadalcanal and lost numerous of cargo and warships under deadly bombs from Cactus Air Force or 1st Marine Division fight with who??? With korean workers? And why Vandegrift send reports like Situation desperate. Need reinforcements... Why happen Battles of Eastern Solomons and Santa Cruz if Japan dont have ability for land troops? You start criticise action of USN admirals like Fletcher, Halsey and Kinkaid.

mike scholl 1 -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 8:30:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: btbw quote: ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1 Yes, I do know what happened when the Brits tracked the Singora landing force for a week before the war. They couldn't determine if it was going to Thailand or Malaya, and they weren't going to start a war over Thailand. But a massive Japanese troop convoy in the Central Pacific? No way that can be anything but what it is..., an act of war! So much for suprise at PH. I will agree with you that Japanese intelligence SUCKED. But as to the 1st Marines, they kicked the snot out of everything the Japanese through at them. The "brave" Japanese troops were brave enough, but their leaders were morons who threw them away in pennypackets. Brave Marine was so quick and agressive so wait another 2 IDs and then start advance till japs dont evacuate. [THEY WEREN'T THERE TO CAPTURE THE ISLAND, JUST THE AIRSTRIP. THEY DID THAT AND THEY HELD IT AGAINST ALL COMERS.] Please divide emotions and patriotic from facts. In 1941-1942 US troops on Pacific was unadequately weak and untrained. Only continous training and experience from previous battles make them strong like in 1944+. [SOME TRUTH TO THIS..., BUT IT STILL TOOK THE "BRAVE" JAPS SIX MONTHS TO BEAT THEM IN THE PHILLIPINES. AND THAT WAS AT THE OTHER END OF THE SUPPLY SPECTRUM FROM AN INVASION OF HAWAII.] ACT OF WAR in 1941 dont have any signs of detected fleet since USA dont have ANY DETECTION SYSTEM. Pacific Ocean different from limited seas like Siam Gulf. And found here (by who?) even a fleet was almost impossible without SPECIAL forces detached to do that and in big numbers. [THEY DON'T NEED A "DETECTION SYSTEM"...,JUST ANY COMMERCIAL VESSEL WITH A RADIO. KIDO BUTAI HAD TO SNEAK ACROSS THE STORMY AND ROUGH WATERS OF THE NORTH PACIFIC IN WINTER TO AVOID SUCH VESSELS..., BUT THERE'S NO WAY THE SAME ROUTE WOULD HAVE SERVED FOR A GAGGLE OF IMPRESSED MERCHANT SHIPS CRAMMED WITH VOMITING SOLDIERS.] USA patrolling waters around Hawaii but less then 1-day trip for troop convoy and by very limited planes in limited arcs. All that was very known by jap intel since they study it (zillion time better then Guadalcanal). IMHO Japan count they dont need PH and it why they dont try invade here but if they prepare invasion like KB strike then it have a chance ot success. Typical "What if". [YOU ARE LIVING IN A FANTASY WORLD IF YOU BELIEVE THIS IS AN ACTUAL "WHAT IF"]

btbw -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 9:37:15 AM)
Someone need to patience and start to see what write. At least open and close tags correctly. After that study a 1941-1942 better and without patriotic pink glasses.

wdolson -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 10:17:42 AM)
btbw it appears English is not your native language. I am willing to accept that we may have some miscommunication due to language barriers. The people here on the forum are a pretty knowledgeable bunch. I know many people here who have read just about every history of the Pacific War published in English, including translations from other languages. There are also many people here who have read original material published in other languages. Though most of those were other European languages. I do know there are a few people here who have read or had translated some works written in Japanese that were never published in English. Rather than throw accusations back and forth, I ask, What material have you read and in what language or languages? It appears your sources differ from what most of the forum membership have read. Though I do know some of the sources I personally have read have been pretty comprehensive and detailed. I am always open to new information though, if the source is reliable enough and holds together. So, what are your sources? Bill

Blackhorse -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 11:14:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: btbw Oahu and loyal? Seriously? What about FIVE internment camps. Or natives, do you remember how PH become as american and what status it have? Yes, Oahu and Japanese-American and intensely loyal. On the mainland, Japanese-Americans from the West Coast were -- to America's shame -- put in internment camps. The (eventually) most prominent of those internees was Norman Y. Mineta, later the Mayor of San Jose California, a US Congressman, and a Cabinet Secretary for both President Clinton (Commerce) and George W. Bush (Transportation). Secretary Mineta is also my mentor and my friend. Mineta's older brother was 19 when the family was moved to a camp on a barren, windswept plain in Wyoming. The first time Mineta ever saw his older brother cry was when he received his draft notice -- his brother wanted to join the US Army, but he was classified as an 'enemy alien'. As soon as that wrong-headed policy was reversed, he, and several thousand other internees, enlisted. Despite all that America had done to them, they wanted to prove that they were 'real' Americans, believing that America's promise that "all mean are created equal," would someday be fulfilled. In Hawaii, Japanese-Americans were not interned. They were, temporarily, removed from military units. Here is an account of what happened when, late in 1942, the War Department decision that 'Nisei' (Japanese-American citizens) could now enlist was announced at college campuses: "As soon as he said that we were now eligible to volunteer, that room exploded in a fury of yells and motion. We went bursting out of there and ran - ran! - the three miles to the draft board, stringing back over the streets and sidewalks, like a bunch of marathoners gone beserk. And that scene was repeated all over Oahu and the other islands." That account came from Daniel Inouye, who lost his arm, and won a medal of honor, fighting in Italy. He is now Senator Inouye, one of the most prominent United States Senators, and, as President Pro Tempore of the Senate, third in line to be President, after the Vice President and the Speaker of the House. So on balance I'd say the Japanese-American community was very much American, and very little Japanese, during World War II. [;)]

btbw -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 11:21:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wdolson So, what are your sources? Most of them same. But when im reading about first year of Pacific war i have vision about US strength different from yours. It why i think hipotetical scenarios like PH invasion is possible despite on later strength of winners.

btbw -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 11:31:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Blackhorse Nice. So all five camps created for who? German, Italian, Koreans? How much German and Italian lived here? I dont need any words from any politics said AFTER action. They need it for their relection or for save image. So 1/3 population of Hawaii was japanese. What they think about USA even when they live here and what they do if their natives coming to Hawaii - you better dont know it. In era of tolerance that knowledge is hurt and pain. But WW2 very difference time, time of segregation.

Alfred -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 11:45:58 AM)
Gentlemen, Any chance that btbw is really Japan, Helmut et al under another persona which was a sleeper at the Japan was most prominently employed? Alfred

Alfred -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 11:49:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: btbw quote: ORIGINAL: Blackhorse Nice. So all five camps created for who? German, Italian, Koreans? How much German and Italian lived here? I dont need any words from any politics said AFTER action. They need it for their relection or for save image. So 1/3 population of Hawaii was japanese. What they think about USA even when they live here and what they do if their natives coming to Hawaii - you better dont know it. In era of tolerance that knowledge is hurt and pain. But WW2 very difference time, time of segregation. Already answered in post #36. It is always unfortunate, and fatal to a polemic, when hard facts are introduced which disprove the propaganda contained in the polemic. Alfred

btbw -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 11:55:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alfred It is always unfortunate, and fatal to a polemic, when hard facts are introduced which disprove the propaganda contained in the polemic. Alfred Definitely! So i will re-read my post #36 where i had answer.

mike scholl 1 -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 12:07:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alfred Gentlemen, Any chance that btbw is really Japan, Helmut et al under another persona which was a sleeper at the Japan was most prominently employed? Alfred I've begun to wonder about that myself. He's trying to give the impression that he's a fiercely loyal Japanese..., but his English is too lousy to be one. Every english speaking Japanese person I've ever met at least writes English far better than most of my native born neighbors...

LoBaron -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 2:11:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alfred Gentlemen, Any chance that btbw is really Japan, Helmut et al under another persona which was a sleeper at the Japan was most prominently employed? Alfred I don't think so, but this does not rule out some very amusing similarities. [8\|]

pompack -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 2:31:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LoBaron quote: ORIGINAL: Alfred Gentlemen, Any chance that btbw is really Japan, Helmut et al under another persona which was a sleeper at the Japan was most prominently employed? Alfred I don't think so, but this does not rule out some very amusing similarities. [8\|] OTOH, this forum at it's ultimate worst (which this thread does not even approach [:D]) is polite reasonableness personified compared to the WitE forum. And the WitE forum on it's worst day displays calm, reasonable, intellegent prose compared to the Diablo III forum [sm=scared0008.gif]

LoBaron -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 2:41:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pompack quote: ORIGINAL: LoBaron quote: ORIGINAL: Alfred Gentlemen, Any chance that btbw is really Japan, Helmut et al under another persona which was a sleeper at the Japan was most prominently employed? Alfred I don't think so, but this does not rule out some very amusing similarities. [8\|] OTOH, this forum at it's ultimate worst (which this thread does not even approach [:D]) is polite reasonableness personified compared to the WitE forum. And the WitE forum on it's worst day displays calm, reasonable, intellegent prose compared to the Diablo III forum [sm=scared0008.gif] Now you got me interested. I just tried to imagine what calm, reasonable, intelligent prose in Diablo III forums could look like. A 5 page debate about slicing Imps horizontally or vertically with a two edged Barbarian Broadsword before or after breakfast comes to mind. Must take a look. [:)]

LoBaron -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 3:00:58 PM)
Hahaha love that forum. Definitely more style in the ragequits over there... [:D] quote: I could care less about the quantity of the drops. It's nice to see but the fact that they roll terrible 99% of the time is the problem. Most of the people here saying, "oh everything is wonderful, you are all just have a streak of bad luck...", aren't playing the same game the way I'm playing it. There is no way a person can play legit and say they are happy and everything is fine with drops and/or the rolls...either that or they just feel like being a !@#$ sucking troll %^-!@ and need to have the #$%^ kicked out of them. I've had it with these dumb-!@ assfag troll muffins and this piece of #$%^ excuse for a blizzard game. Go -*!@ yourselves trolls, botters and this poor excuse for a game. Good #$%^ing bye lol. I'm outl.

warspite1 -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 7:17:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1 quote: ORIGINAL: Alfred Gentlemen, Any chance that btbw is really Japan, Helmut et al under another persona which was a sleeper at the Japan was most prominently employed? Alfred I've begun to wonder about that myself. He's trying to give the impression that he's a fiercely loyal Japanese..., but his English is too lousy to be one. Every english speaking Japanese person I've ever met at least writes English far better than most of my native born neighbors... warspite1 Well whoever it is - its definitely an imposter. Read his comment in the CA thread when he says he is going to green button me. Perfect English all of a sudden. Guy is a troll [8\|]

Chickenboy -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 7:44:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 Well whoever it is - its definitely an imposter. Read his comment in the CA thread when he says he is going to green button me. Perfect English all of a sudden. Guy is a troll [8\|] I 'green buttoned' btbw shortly after his first post (early November) for behavior and language unbecoming. Warspite-your latest posting piqued my interest though: when has btbw ever used perfect English? [&:] This from one of his last posts in the CA thread: "It danger of lost very needed for country ship and execution after it from nazi leader." I can't even understand this, let alone produce a reasoned argument against it. [&:]

Lecivius -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 7:54:24 PM)
Having reviewed this individuals past posts and compared it to the syntax in this thread I've come to the conclusion we are being 'played' by btbw. His syntax is atrocious here, but not anywhere near as bad in other posts. My opinion, anyways. I won't dot him, but I will ignore him.

warspite1 -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/4/2012 7:58:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chickenboy quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 Well whoever it is - its definitely an imposter. Read his comment in the CA thread when he says he is going to green button me. Perfect English all of a sudden. Guy is a troll [8\|] I 'green buttoned' btbw shortly after his first post (early November) for behavior and language unbecoming. Warspite-your latest posting piqued my interest though: when has btbw ever used perfect English? [&:] This from one of his last posts in the CA thread: "It danger of lost very needed for country ship and execution after it from nazi leader." I can't even understand this, let alone produce a reasoned argument against it. [&:] warspite1 Post 18 on the CA thread. After all that mumbo jumbo, he suddenly says: quote: No facts as always. Dude you definitely get my green button. Even spelt "definitely" correctly... what a schmuck [8\|]

TSCofield -> RE: OT question about Japan invading Hawaii (12/6/2012 11:14:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: btbw quote: ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1 Have you ever read a book about the Pacific War? The Japanese brought (or tried to bring) two plus Divisions to Guadalcanal, which is what dragged out the operation for 6 months. As I said earlier, the only chance the Japanese ever had to get ashore successfully in Oahu was if they had done it by 8 December of 1941. And the act of trying to bring a large troop convoy halfway across the Pacific to do so would have almost guaranteed the loss of suprise at PH and doomed the invasion anyway. About detection of convoys - again found map with trade routes (naval recon around Hawaii dont started till war, air recon was sporadic). Merchants dont have surveliance equipment for find and track enemy ships when japanese escort can. Even one float patrol plane extend vision of convoy a few times more. DO you know what happen when Brits seen invading fleet? NOTHING. War dont started yet. I had a nice argument, but if this a troll I won't bother posting it. Editing now.

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