Americans?

Americans? (Full Version)

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Grim.Reaper -> Americans? (12/1/2012 1:19:37 PM)
In reading most posts and aars, doesn't seem to mention American forces that much. Is it that hard for the conditions to exist where they would enter the war? Or maybe I have just missed where people did have American troops involved. If I was playing against the ai, would the ai possibly do things to cause the Americans to join or would the ai avoid those events at all costs?

CarnageINC -> RE: Americans? (12/2/2012 12:23:07 AM)
People are just avoiding the conditions for troops to arrive...ie sinking of convoys. I think that subs are ineffective in getting convoys so people don't really try. If subs had the ability to move more than once per turn it would help and make them more effective killers IMO.

Grim.Reaper -> RE: Americans? (12/2/2012 12:31:31 AM)
Is attacking convoys the only way for them to join the war or will they also join on their historical date?

CarnageINC -> RE: Americans? (12/2/2012 1:17:01 AM)
convoys only I believe, I've never had them enter the game before [&:]

Grim.Reaper -> RE: Americans? (12/2/2012 1:23:32 AM)
Thanks and interesting.... I wonder if u play the ai if they would attack the convoy but if not we would never see the americans enter the war:(

BYU 14 -> RE: Americans? (12/2/2012 5:24:14 PM)
This is truly one area I would like to see improved, either by adding some more options to diplomacy down the road, or increasing the penalty for gas as well. Diplomacy would be my first choice however, maybe adding an option in management to spend PP on diplomacy favor, which would force a player to use it wisely. Other than this there is nothing I can say I really wish was added to the game, since we know the undo button is coming :)

gunnergoz -> RE: Americans? (12/5/2012 4:37:23 AM)
Interesting - subs sinking convoys is what triggers the American entry into the war. Historical, for sure. Only problem is, playing as Allied and presently in the middle of 1917, I have yet to see the Germans send out even one cruiser on convoy hunts. They sent out their Fleet but the British had 2 fleets by then and clobbered them no sweat. As I feared, the sea war aspect is going to be the Albatross around the neck of this game. It really needs work.

Mike Parker -> RE: Americans? (12/5/2012 3:24:15 PM)
I wouldn't call it an Albatross but it needs to be worked on for certain. Immediatly I thnk we need a fix on the predictability of the Swedish convoy... although I do not have a clue on how to do that as the sea on the map there is very narrow!

Gilmer -> RE: Americans? (12/15/2012 10:40:03 PM)
I'm not called by anyone an expert on WW1, but wouldn't the Americans (me!) have entered the war eventually? Or was it really just the convoys? And I have yet to see the AI attack convoys.

Grim.Reaper -> RE: Americans? (12/16/2012 2:23:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: H Gilmer I'm not called by anyone an expert on WW1, but wouldn't the Americans (me!) have entered the war eventually? Or was it really just the convoys? And I have yet to see the AI attack convoys. That's my fear that the AI will never take the necessary actions to bring the Americans into the war....

jwduquette1 -> RE: Americans? (12/17/2012 3:03:06 PM)
One of my 1914-18 campaigns as the Central Powers vs. the AI I focused a lot of PP's on building German and Austrian submarine fleets. They actually are pretty effective at sinking convoys -- once you figure out the AIs convoy routes. You need 8 or 9 German U-Boat units and 3 or 4 Austrian Subs maintained at full strength in order to intercept the various convoy routes. Unfortunately my focus upon building AND MAINTAINING the u-boat fleet took its toll in my ability to maintain and upgrad my ground forces and airforce -- or expand artillery ammunition production. The U-boats are not super expensive up front -- but they cost alot to keep up to strength. You have to keep shuttling deplted U-Boat units back to port while still keeping full strngth U-Boats on convoy routes. The Americans entered the war in this particular game. And while i did manage to sink a large number of their troop transports, I was still eventually overwhelmed on the western front. I think the U-Boat strategy might be more viable in head-to-head games. I got the distinct feeling that the AI's Great Britain and French Economy's were still getting fed a ton of overseas PPs from convoys in spite of all the convoys I managed to sink. Moreover, I have played as the Entente vs the AI in several games and always felt on the verge of PP starvation for Britain and France even though the AI was not initiating any sort of U-Boat warfare. Conversely an AI run Entente seems to swim in men and material regardless of any sort of Economic Warfare strategy undertaken by the Central Powers. But, I would be interested to see how the U-Boat strategy plays out in H-2-H

Aurelian -> RE: Americans? (12/17/2012 6:24:38 PM)
Maybe, but the Allies can station cruisers where the convoys end their movement. Station one at the top, one at the bottom so one cruiser will always get a shot

Jestre -> RE: Americans? (12/17/2012 6:34:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aurelian Maybe, but the Allies can station cruisers where the convoys end their movement. Station one at the top, one at the bottom so one cruiser will always get a shot When playing CP I always use the 3 German units to triangulate the Swedish convoy, that way I can always get 2 shots at any sub attacks. Then when the convoy reaches port I can block all 3 hexes open to the sea, so the Entente gets one shot at the convoy and it will always be countered by 2 attacks.

Amaranthus -> RE: Americans? (12/18/2012 4:20:50 AM)
If you play the 1918 scenario, it's relatively easy to leave Britain gasping for air after a few months, due to their high inbuilt upkeep - focus on convoys, not US troop carriers.

micha1100 -> RE: Americans? (12/18/2012 4:55:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gunnergoz Interesting - subs sinking convoys is what triggers the American entry into the war. Historical, for sure... Actually subs sinking convoys was in itself not a problem historically. What brought America into the war was the German declaration of "unlimited" submarine warfare, meaning Germany ordered their submarines to sink anything they saw in certain sea areas without adhering to the rules of prize warfare (which, for example, demanded that merchantmen must be stopped and searched and could only be sunk or taken if proven to belong to an enemy nation or carrying contraband, a procedure obviously difficult and dangerous for submarines).

warspite1 -> RE: Americans? (12/21/2012 7:07:16 PM)
Gents Same issue imo for France / United States as originally for Germany / Russia. Although the colour clash is not as bad as in the latter case, having two blues fighting in France is not the best aesthetically. Just a thought my 2 cents.

Forwarn45 -> RE: Americans? (12/21/2012 7:18:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: micha1100 quote: ORIGINAL: gunnergoz Interesting - subs sinking convoys is what triggers the American entry into the war. Historical, for sure... Actually subs sinking convoys was in itself not a problem historically. What brought America into the war was the German declaration of "unlimited" submarine warfare, meaning Germany ordered their submarines to sink anything they saw in certain sea areas without adhering to the rules of prize warfare (which, for example, demanded that merchantmen must be stopped and searched and could only be sunk or taken if proven to belong to an enemy nation or carrying contraband, a procedure obviously difficult and dangerous for submarines). Yes, and there was some opposition to being involved in the war even still. Wilson actually campaigned on keeping the US out of war in the election of 1916. If the Germans had scrapped their sub campaign, I don't think that anything else happening in Europe would have brought the US in. EDIT: There is also the matter of Mexico and the Zimmerman telegram. I don't want to dismiss the fact that there were other tensions between Germany and the US.

micha1100 -> RE: Americans? (12/22/2012 4:50:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Forwarn45 ... EDIT: There is also the matter of Mexico and the Zimmerman telegram. I don't want to dismiss the fact that there were other tensions between Germany and the US. The Zimmermann telegram was only sent because the declaration of unrestricted submarine warfare was imminent and Germany foresaw that it could and probably would lead to an American entry into the war so plans had to be made for that eventuality.

warspite1 -> RE: Americans? (12/22/2012 7:05:36 PM)
Gents - what is the mechanism by which the US enters? Is it fixed per number of merchant points sunk or what? The reason I ask is that my opponent is attacking my convoys with wolf packs - and really causing major damage - but the Americans are no where to be seen. I might be wrong but against Empir previously, the damage he inflicted was far less and the US came in before the end of 1915!!

Myrddraal -> RE: Americans? (12/22/2012 10:23:02 PM)
Off the top of my head (this may be wrong) there are couple of events which are triggered by crossing certain thresholds in convoy casualties. These events themselves have an impact on the USA's alignment, but also, after these events have triggered, the alignment of the USA starts to shift faster. This isn't linked to increasing casualties, by the time you've reached that stage you could stop sinking convoys completely and the USA would still join, it has become a ticking bomb.

warspite1 -> RE: Americans? (12/22/2012 11:52:05 PM)
Right thanks. It will be interesting to see how this pans out because at the moment, my opponent has a wolf pack of 4 subs that is effectively picking off whole 10-point convoys. I am purposely making little effort to impede this as I want the Americans in. I will keep you posted.

Bossy573 -> RE: Americans? (12/23/2012 2:38:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 Right thanks. It will be interesting to see how this pans out because at the moment, my opponent has a wolf pack of 4 subs that is effectively picking off whole 10-point convoys. I am purposely making little effort to impede this as I want the Americans in. I will keep you posted. No effect on shipping capacity or morale?

warspite1 -> RE: Americans? (12/23/2012 1:09:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 Right thanks. It will be interesting to see how this pans out because at the moment, my opponent has a wolf pack of 4 subs that is effectively picking off whole 10-point convoys. I am purposely making little effort to impede this as I want the Americans in. I will keep you posted. warspite1 Very strange indeed - I am getting my convoys sunk regularly - coming home with just a couple of points or so, but absolutely no sign of the Americans. This can't be right can it? Not even the warning event notice to say the Americans are a tad cheesed off..... I will keep a count from here on in.

ulver -> RE: Americans? (12/23/2012 1:21:40 PM)
In my game against War spite I�m sinking a lot of merchant shipping but no Americans. I would estimate it may be because I haven�t actually completely destroyed any convoys (Not for lack of trying I assure you. I�ve reduced them to 2-3 points yes but never completely destroyed them) If the US event are triggered by complete destruction of a convoy marker as opposed to number of steps lost in a period it opens for a huge exploit � reducing all entente convoys to 1 point. That seems a flawed design.

warspite1 -> RE: Americans? (12/23/2012 2:39:07 PM)
Well you have now!! It can't be that because in my game aganst Empire, he sunk nothing like the sheer number of points sunk - this is on a different scale. All ten of my French convoy gone _ a few with only 1 or 2 left. This cannot be right - how can the Entente counter this if there is no American penalty?

FOARP -> RE: Americans? (12/24/2012 12:19:23 AM)
After capturing Paris, Verdun, and Rouen playing as the Central Powers I'll usually DOW Spain, Portugal and the US to make for an additional challenge - jumping on the Russians with both feet after beating the French just seems too easy. Battles with masses of Spanish infantry backed by US artillery in southern France,with ever growing numbers of US troops pouring into the region, are simply epic. Never seen the US come in by themselves though.

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