Help please using surface TF at night (Full Version)

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asdicus -> Help please using surface TF at night (12/13/2012 10:11:45 AM)

Playing japan in my pbm game and am consistently failing in getting my surface taskforces to arrive at their destination at night so they can move away again to avoid air retaliation the following day.

Surface taskforce all 30 knot+ ships are set to retire. Fully refueled all op points available move 9/4. Example start at Luganville move to Noumea 10 hexes. Example start at Tulagi move to Luganville 13 hexes(screen attached).

First day I would have expected the fleet to move to 9 hexes away from destination (max range for a night attack) and then day 2 to move in to attack at night then move back. Instead in both these examples the surface fleet moves as far as it can at night still 1 hex short of destination then moves and attacks in daylight fights a battle moves just 1 hex from destination still in daylight(runs out of op points ?) and then gets smashed by allied carrier planes.

So far I have lost 3 cruisers and 16 destroyers for nothing because I cannot get my fast surface fleets to move in at night strike and then move away by dawn. Please can anyone advise me what I am doing wrong with the orders ? How do I get taskforces to attack in this way when they start from say 10 to 15 hexes from destination ? Note it does seem to work ok when the ships start from further away eg tulagi to efate seems to work.

[image]local://upfiles/6450/3E0FA07C2670435FA57472DB9C3E6CE2.jpg[/image]



Oberst_Klink -> RE: Help please using surface TF at night (12/13/2012 10:24:44 AM)

Well, it looks like you are using mission speed, rather than full speed. Did you give it a try with f/s from Tulagi? A good example how TFs move is given in this smashing video tutorial:

https://sites.google.com/site/n01487477/Home

Drop me a line, send me the save file and I'll have a close look; nothing else to do atm :D

Klink, Oberst



asdicus -> RE: Help please using surface TF at night (12/13/2012 10:57:42 AM)

I thought that mission speed meant the taskforce would use the most appropriate speed for the mission ie just full speed for the run into and out of the destination. I do not want to use full speed all the way just the remaining 9 hexes in and out. What I do not understand is why when the taskforce starts 10 or more hexes away it does not move up to max range ie 9 hexes wait a day and then move in the following day.



GreyJoy -> RE: Help please using surface TF at night (12/13/2012 11:19:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: asdicus

I thought that mission speed meant the taskforce would use the most appropriate speed for the mission ie just full speed for the run into and out of the destination. I do not want to use full speed all the way just the remaining 9 hexes in and out. What I do not understand is why when the taskforce starts 10 or more hexes away it does not move up to max range ie 9 hexes wait a day and then move in the following day.


I'd say move at normal speed first to a hex 8 hexes distant from the target and then swicth, for the following day, at flank speed. In this way you should be able to arrive, fight and get back to 9 or 8 hexes far when the day arrives



HansBolter -> RE: Help please using surface TF at night (12/13/2012 11:31:43 AM)

The automatic use of full speed resulting from mission speed orders works for bombardment missions and surface combat missions sent to enemy controlled base hexes.

If you are moving to your own controlled base hex mission speed will not automatically be switched to full speed.

You have to force full speed manually under these circumstances.



Puhis -> RE: Help please using surface TF at night (12/13/2012 12:41:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: asdicus

I thought that mission speed meant the taskforce would use the most appropriate speed for the mission ie just full speed for the run into and out of the destination. I do not want to use full speed all the way just the remaining 9 hexes in and out. What I do not understand is why when the taskforce starts 10 or more hexes away it does not move up to max range ie 9 hexes wait a day and then move in the following day.


I feel your pain. I think the situation you just described is a special case when the code fails and calculate movement wrongly, and ships end up 1 hex short. There's nothing you can do about it, except manually move your TFs like GreyJoy said.

I believe long ago michaelm confirmed this bug, but said that the code is so complicated that he is not going to change it.



obvert -> RE: Help please using surface TF at night (12/13/2012 3:13:29 PM)

If they are getting crushed on the way out, after moving only a hex or two from the target after your set mission, wouldn't they also get hit hard if you moved to within a few hexes and waited during a day phase before going in the next day? I might be missing something here, but if there are dangerous air strike planes in range you would want to keep them father back on the first day, just out of their range, and hopefully with LR CAP cover just in case, then go in at flank the remaining 5-7 hexes, scooting out by the day air phase out of range again in the morning.



asdicus -> RE: Help please using surface TF at night (12/13/2012 3:47:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

If they are getting crushed on the way out, after moving only a hex or two from the target after your set mission, wouldn't they also get hit hard if you moved to within a few hexes and waited during a day phase before going in the next day? I might be missing something here, but if there are dangerous air strike planes in range you would want to keep them father back on the first day, just out of their range, and hopefully with LR CAP cover just in case, then go in at flank the remaining 5-7 hexes, scooting out by the day air phase out of range again in the morning.

The american carriers are supporting their landing at Luganville. I still hold the base. I am trying to get a surface fleet from Tulagi to attack the landing ships AT NIGHT and then retire before the inevitable air attacks. It seems that when I still hold the destination base I cannot rely on the Mission Speed option to work for this. I want the taskforce to wait 9 hexes off the base on day 1(out of divebomber range) and then move in on day 2. Instead it moves nearly all the way on night day 1 (1 hex short) and then moves in daylight attacks in daylight and then can only move 1 more hex - right next door to the american carriers. Adios my taskforce.

Suggestions so far are manually move the taskforce to 9 hexes away and then next day set to full speed destination Luganville. OR. Just set the taskforce from Tulagi to Luganville to run at FULL speed all the way (fuel issue?). Are we sure these suggestions will work ? So far I have lost 2 complete surface squadrons 3 cruisers 16 dd's trying to get this to work. As the japs I cannot keep losing ships experimenting with this. I am now so nervous about using surface ships in this way I am tempted just to leave them all in port. Shame as I really enjoy the night surface battles.



dcpollay -> RE: Help please using surface TF at night (12/13/2012 5:07:56 PM)

Asdicus - Your last post understands the situation correctly. If your destination hex is a friendly base, the "stop at max range, then dash in at night" rule does not apply. Your ship will simply sail over to your base rather than trying to sneak in. I don't view it as a bug, rather, the game recognizes there is no need to sneak into your own "friendly" territory.

I'm a new player myself, and it didn't take me long to learn that particular lesson the same way you did! I don't have the manual in front of me now, but I think it may actually be covered in there.

As Hans pointed out above, you will need to manually control your forces in that event. Good Luck!



crsutton -> RE: Help please using surface TF at night (12/13/2012 7:39:15 PM)

Playing 1 day turns I have not had many problems with this. I just use mission speed and it seems to work fine for me about 80% of the time. When it does not it is usually due to my TF having multiple combats on the way to the target or at the target which uses up OP points and causes delay. But I don't find this out of my range of expectations and play to avoid it when I can.

I will say that sometimes this is not the case with FT convoys. They seem to work OK about 2/3rds of the time. But I don't find fault with it either because it is my firm belief that if your orders worked to perfection every time, the game would quickly become tedious and boring. My two cents.

I feel your pain but if the Japanese fleet (or any) is running into heavily contested waters to run supply or seek night combat. Then it should on occasion have a foul up and get a pasting. Nothing about this that was not a historical reality.



witpqs -> RE: Help please using surface TF at night (12/13/2012 7:41:16 PM)

Here is the URL for the AE Wiki. There is an article there on surface intercepts in case that helps.

http://witp-ae.wikia.com/wiki/War_in_the_Pacific:_Admiral%27s_Edition_Wiki



Chris21wen -> RE: Help please using surface TF at night (12/14/2012 5:49:57 AM)

asdicus

Trying setting the patrol area of the TF to the base and turn react on by the amount of hexes it's falling short by. Also ensure you have a good aggresive leader. This has been working for me most of the time at Lunga until, that is, two BBs showed up then ooch.




npsergio -> RE: Help please using surface TF at night (12/14/2012 7:32:26 PM)

Just an idea, may be a silly idea because I'm but a green noob... If you want to be sure to arive at night to the objective, why don't you send them in a naval bombardement mission?



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