what ww2 equipment would still be good today (Full Version)

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jerrek -> what ww2 equipment would still be good today (2/6/2001 11:25:00 AM)

lets see if any ww2 equipment would still be of use on a modern battlefield. mg42. good weapon bullets still kill and this weapon shot a lot of them, fairly reliable and light. storch - this thing has amazing slow flight and takeoff capabilities. sturmtiger - armour weak but the gun, the gun. american .5 inch browning. lots of hitting power (but perhaps to heavy).



Bonzo -> (2/6/2001 11:44:00 AM)

The Panzerwurfmine antitank grenade would still be quite effective against the top armour of most AFV's. ------------------ Robert (Bonzo) Lindsay, Coordinator 28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters Main http://nwbattalion.tripod.com E-mail [email]nwbattalion@icqmail.com[/email]



panzerfist -> (2/6/2001 11:56:00 AM)

how about an mg 42? this seems like a timeless weapon. as far as tanks, well, id think that anyn piece of armour would pale in comparison to our m1 abrams. p/f/



USMCGrunt -> (2/6/2001 12:20:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by jerrek: lets see if any ww2 equipment would still be of use on a modern battlefield. mg42. good weapon bullets still kill and this weapon shot a lot of them, fairly reliable and light. storch - this thing has amazing slow flight and takeoff capabilities. sturmtiger - armour weak but the gun, the gun. american .5 inch browning. lots of hitting power (but perhaps to heavy).
Jerrek, just an FYI. The Browning .50 caliber heavy machine gun is still around and still in use in the US military. It is now called the M2HB (Heavy Barrel) and with the exception of the heavier barrel, and the T&E (Traverse and Elevation)mechanism on the tripod, it has not changed drastically from the WW2 version. (The are still many parts in common between the 2 models.) Also, the Thompson SMG and the M3A1 grease gun were used as recently as Vietnam by US forces. (My father carried the Thompson to supplement the M79 grenade launcher he carried.) As to what I see as a still viable weapon, the M1 Garand still makes the grade. I have an original surplus M1 that was made in 1943 and never issued. I can still hold a 7 inch shot group at 500 yards with this rifle (Sorry 1stSgt, I'll work on bringing it down to 6") I also have to say that for reliablility, stopping power, and accuracy: I would have chosen it over the M16A2 that I carried in Desert Storm any day of the week. The M1 is also still in use worldwide in various guerilla groups. Just because a weapon system is old, does not mean it is not effective or useless. A P47 Thunderbolt fighter is a formidible foe in a conflict where the other side has no airpower at all. The best weapon to use in any given situation is the one you have, rather than the one you wish you had. ------------------ USMCGrunt -When it absolutely, positively, has to be destroyed overnight.



KING -> (2/6/2001 2:54:00 PM)

Molotovīs Coctail. Simple and easy-to-do, even for child...



orc4hire -> (2/6/2001 2:55:00 PM)

The MG42 is still in use too; converted to NATO caliber and with a few other minor changes it still serves the German army as the MG1 (I believe that's the designation....)



CaptainBrian -> (2/6/2001 4:24:00 PM)

In 1990 I saw a USMC .50 cal which I am certain saw WWII service and destroyed two German vehicles or aircraft. It had two maltese crosses engraved on the top of the feed tray cover. Eleven years since, I have yet to see another with these markings. Another classic WWII weapon still in widespread use is M-101 105mm Howitzer.



frank1970 -> (2/6/2001 5:01:00 PM)

The kalashnikow is just a little modified German WW2 weapon!



Reg -> (2/6/2001 5:04:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by jerrek: storch - this thing has amazing slow flight and takeoff capabilities.
Someone over here is manufacturing and selling a 3/4 scale replica of the storch. Honest to god, I saw it do a 360 degree turn to pick up speed then swung out in a straight line and was up off the ground in about 10 or 15 feet, which was not much more than its wing span. The replica has certainly inherited it's predecessor's short take off performance characteristics!!! Reg.



Arralen -> (2/6/2001 6:41:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by orc4hire: The MG42 is still in use too; converted to NATO caliber and with a few other minor changes it still serves the German army as the MG1 (I believe that's the designation....)
MG-3 (to fit the designation of the G-3??) - turned down rate of fire - some materials changed see: http://www.bundeswehr.de/bundeswehr/luftwaffe/mg3.html .. is being replaced by the awful 5.56mm MG- .. dunno what is was [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Greetings, Arralen



bbbf -> (2/6/2001 7:54:00 PM)

AK-47 is a modified MP44 M60 is based on MG42 .50 Cals, well they just keep on going. WWII AFV's may not cut it against main line equipment, but how about a King Tiger or Jagdpanther vs a LAV, or a Bradley (minus TOW).



troopie -> (2/6/2001 8:31:00 PM)

1: M1911 Colt .45. I understand some were used in the Gulf. 2. Bren. Reworked for 7.62mm it still soldiers on in some armies. I used one in the '70's. Still a good performer. 3. Mauser 98k, Enfield .303, Sten, PaPasha. A lot of hand to mouth terrs use these when they can't get AKs. If it can fire a bullet, it's effective. 4. All the WW2 grenades would still work. troopie ------------------ Pamwe Chete



jerrek -> (2/6/2001 10:59:00 PM)

seems as if guns (rifles and mg) in particular have not been changed much. what major advances has there been in this field since ww2. Considering that the ak47 is easily one of the best assault rifles and is a mp44 i suppose not much.



Grumble -> (2/6/2001 11:12:00 PM)

1- MG 42/MG3 (rechambered for 7.62 NATO and cyclic rate reduced) 2- 40mm Bofors (still around as 40mm/L70) 3- Colt .45 automatic 4- M2HB .50 5- Jeep 6- M3A2 halftrack (saw some in Israel a few years ago. Although not in frontline use) 7- StG 44 8- Walther P38 9- Browning Hi-Power 9mm



Igor -> (2/7/2001 12:00:00 AM)

P-51s are still being sold for military purposes; with new electronics, they make great counter-insurgency platforms. Until recently, Ju-88s were doing the same work; they could loiter forever...and there are still puddle jumper airlines out there which fly DC-2s. Oh; and while the delivery methods and packaging have changed, not much has been updated in the basic gun barrel bomb...



Tortfeasor -> (2/7/2001 12:23:00 AM)

Well you folks have forgot the DshK 12.7 mm machin gun from 1938 . its still in cervice. Its the most trustworthy heavy machingun.



orc4hire -> (2/7/2001 12:36:00 AM)

Jerrek, You're quite right; advances in small arms have been very, very slight since about the mid 1930's. A bit of juggling with the mass/velocity part of the bullet end of things has allowed lighter weapons, but the additional ammo brings the total weight up to the same range (I own a Kar98 and a Chinese AK, and the AK is much heavier loaded). But it's a mature technology field and won't change much at all until a new propellent technology comes along. So really, the answer to the original question is really 'anything that puts metal downrange.' :}



Jonathan1945 -> (2/7/2001 12:41:00 AM)

Hi, Well, there's always the G11 and P90 -- something on the order of 50 rounds a clip, caseless, rounds designed to pierce armor; though admittedly it's not the difference between a bolt action and a semi-auto, it's still a bit of a difference.



orc4hire -> (2/7/2001 1:28:00 AM)

Sure, caseless ammo is an incremental improvement... if it worked. Didn't the German army finally decide not to adopt the G11 because it never did work quite right? As for armor piercing, I've got some 7.62x39 steel cored soft point ammo that's not radical, but probably does about as good a job of piercing light armor. Now, the FN 5.7mm looks interesting; they claim the pistol will penetrate a PASGET helmet at 240 meters.... Purely by accident, I'm sure, because there's no way anyone's going to hit a target that size on purpose at that range, not with a pistol under field conditions. But there still not much functional difference. The problem is that we're up against the laws of physics; increasing the energy sent downrange increases the recoil and makes the weapon harder to control. You can juggle the factors around some, but the equation is the same. Small arms now are optimized for short range performance over those of 60 years ago, and they are slightly better at close range than the older weapons, but at a cost of completely giving up longer range performance. It's a trade off that works well under most conditions, but it's still a trade off, not an advance.



Possum -> (2/7/2001 5:39:00 AM)

Hello All. Some AFV's that are still around from WWII. Hetzer, was in service with Czech republic, and swiss army untill 10? years ago. Archer, still in use with some third world armies. T34/85, likewize still in service with some third world armies. JS-II, JS-III, JSU-122, JSU-152, still? in the equipment park of class C Russian Divisions. Also, many trucks from WWII can still be found in use all over the world; Some like the Matador (UK) or the GMC 2-1/2 (USA) didn't go out of production untill the 70's. As well, some WWII engineering equipment is still in use, if only with private companies in impoverished areas. ( eg Sherman dozer in use as a Dozer! in Paupa New Guninea ) I belive that the ribbon bridge used by army engineers today is still the same design as used in WWII.



USMCGrunt -> (2/7/2001 6:52:00 AM)

Another survivor from WW2 that is still in heavy use today is the C47(DC3) Dakota transport plane. These are still widely used around the world for transporting cargo into less than perfect airfields. We even have one in use in Northern Maine for dropping cargo to the Forest Service and other oganizations. Another carry over would be most of the artillery pieces, especially the mortars. Most of these would still be viable for todays battlefield. I beleive the current US 81mm and 60mm mortars are very similar to the WW2 originals with the exception of new level sights. ------------------ USMCGrunt -When it absolutely, positively, has to be destroyed overnight.



mogami -> (2/7/2001 8:18:00 AM)

Hi, Lets see many grenades have not changed that much. Sniper rifles, most late war inf AT weapons would still work against all but the heavy modern tanks, (lets face it a lot of small arms would still be good) ------------------ I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!



ZinZan -> (2/7/2001 9:00:00 AM)

Scary someone mentioning the DC3 Dakota. I flew in one in 1982 in Zimbabwe, was part of Zimbabwe Airlines but had just been transferred from the Air Force, was used up until 1980 as a troop transport and paratroop carrier. Was very weird getting in this plane setup as a passenger aircraft and looking up and seeing the parachute line and red and green lights over rear door. When we landed I had a look round and found a plaque with aircraft history. THIS aircraft was used during Operation Market Garden and dropped British Paras on the first day. I just checked with family in Zimbabwe and they still fly at least 4 Dakotas over there. ------------------ peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk



Larry Holt -> (2/7/2001 9:54:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Igor: ...and there are still puddle jumper airlines out there which fly DC-2s.
As recently as 1994 I jumped out of a DC at Ft Bragg, NC flown by the NC Forest Service. They are still going strong. ------------------ An old soldier but not yet a faded one. OK, maybe just a bit faded.



troopie -> (2/7/2001 10:46:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by ZinZan: Scary someone mentioning the DC3 Dakota. I flew in one in 1982 in Zimbabwe, was part of Zimbabwe Airlines but had just been transferred from the Air Force, was used up until 1980 as a troop transport and paratroop carrier. Was very weird getting in this plane setup as a passenger aircraft and looking up and seeing the parachute line and red and green lights over rear door. When we landed I had a look round and found a plaque with aircraft history. THIS aircraft was used during Operation Market Garden and dropped British Paras on the first day. I just checked with family in Zimbabwe and they still fly at least 4 Dakotas over there.
ZinZan, At last, a fellow Whenwe! U is baie welkom, hier! troopie ex-South African ------------------ Pamwe Chete



frank1970 -> (2/7/2001 2:31:00 PM)

A Swisse airline still uses Ju 52. The Bundeswehr still relies on the good old 2cm Flak, the Bundesmarine uses the quadriple version on landing vehicles. I do not exactly know about the artillery pieces, eg mortars 81mm.



Arralen -> (2/7/2001 5:23:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Jonathan1945: Well, there's always the G11 and P90 -- something on the order of 50 rounds a clip, caseless, rounds designed to pierce armor; though admittedly it's not the difference between a bolt action and a semi-auto, it's still a bit of a difference.
The G-11 is a radical improvement - especially as it is able to fire a 3-shot burst into 60mm cirlce at 500m (or something like that), using caseless 4,47mm highspeed ammo - no, armorpiercing it is not. However, the whole thing is !*&%!! expensive to buy, to maintain and to supply ... IIRC some Fallschirmjaeger and Gebirgsjaeger units got it ... All IIRC .. I would point you to the homepage of H&K, but there isn't anything to find about it anymore .. ?!?! Arralen



orc4hire -> (2/7/2001 10:16:00 PM)

Sorry Arralen, that performance doesn't qualify as a radical improvement. Compare the issue weapons of 1840 (single shot black powder muskets, the same basic design as had been in use at the beginning of the century) to the issue weapons of 1900. Now _that's_ a radical improvement in the same span of time as we're looking at. (And, I note, that many of the issue weapons of 1940 were not much changed from 1900; the same situation that had prevailed 100 years earlier.)



JTGEN -> (2/8/2001 12:12:00 AM)

A couple of additions. In the mid '90s in the finnish army I still handled some old weaponry. 88mm Pak the german one as a training weapon 76mm basically the same Suomi smg The modified mossin nagant rifle 152 mm coastal guns from 1914 but modified in the 30s and 60s, but locks still sporting the sign of obuhoff factory in st Petersburg. Also fires with many of them. All are useful in the archipelago and with rear echelon troops.



TheOriginalOverlord -> (2/8/2001 12:48:00 AM)

As for WW2 weapons I think just about all of them are still usefull in some capacity. These remind you of anything JTGEN? [img]http://redrival.com/jheath/armory/2839.jpg[/img] [img]http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1137855&a=9439965&p=31345740&Sequence=0&res=high[/img] Here are some my M-1's and they work just like they day they were made. ------------------ Semper Fi! Overlord [This message has been edited by Overlord (edited February 07, 2001).]



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