quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

paulderynck you are part of the Yahoo group and made some very good posts there. So go ahead and ask them about this scenario.

Why haven't one of you done so already?


Because of your view on minor countries controlled by Vichy France You cannot explain...

quote:

Roll a die immediately before land combat or the overrun for each Vichy unit (including notional units) involved. On a 4 or less, the Vichy unit is destroyed prior to combat resolution. If no Axis land units remain, an (attacking) Allied major power can advance after combat as if it were a ‘B’ result. Allied land units stay face-up. Shore bombarding ships and ground supporting bombers still turn face-down. If it’s an overrun, you just pay the normal terrain cost, not double.

Using your view this rule can NEVER be put into effect.

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

paulderynck you are part of the Yahoo group and made some very good posts there. So go ahead and ask them about this scenario.

Why haven't one of you done so already?


Because of your view on minor countries controlled by Vichy France You cannot explain...

quote:

Roll a die immediately before land combat or the overrun for each Vichy unit (including notional units) involved. On a 4 or less, the Vichy unit is destroyed prior to combat resolution. If no Axis land units remain, an (attacking) Allied major power can advance after combat as if it were a ‘B’ result. Allied land units stay face-up. Shore bombarding ships and ground supporting bombers still turn face-down. If it’s an overrun, you just pay the normal terrain cost, not double.

Using your view this rule can NEVER be put into effect.

all hexes in Vichy France and Corsica are Vichy hexes. all Vichy France land units (all land units that are not territorial)

and the hexes were does land units are.

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ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Damn Germans and accepting Vichy France. They should have just conquered them so all these WWII games would not have to worry about all this crap lol. Didn't Hitler understand the impact this decision would have on future generations [:)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

paulderynck you are part of the Yahoo group and made some very good posts there. So go ahead and ask them about this scenario.

Why haven't one of you done so already?


Because of your view on minor countries controlled by Vichy France You cannot explain...

quote:

Roll a die immediately before land combat or the overrun for each Vichy unit (including notional units) involved. On a 4 or less, the Vichy unit is destroyed prior to combat resolution. If no Axis land units remain, an (attacking) Allied major power can advance after combat as if it were a ‘B’ result. Allied land units stay face-up. Shore bombarding ships and ground supporting bombers still turn face-down. If it’s an overrun, you just pay the normal terrain cost, not double.

Using your view this rule can NEVER be put into effect.

all hexes in Vichy France and Corsica are Vichy hexes. all Vichy France land units (all land units that are not territorial)

and the hexes were does land units are.

So what are the Vichy French notional units that can be destroyed prior to combat resolution?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

paulderynck you are part of the Yahoo group and made some very good posts there. So go ahead and ask them about this scenario.

Why haven't one of you done so already?


Because of your view on minor countries controlled by Vichy France You cannot explain...

quote:

Roll a die immediately before land combat or the overrun for each Vichy unit (including notional units) involved. On a 4 or less, the Vichy unit is destroyed prior to combat resolution. If no Axis land units remain, an (attacking) Allied major power can advance after combat as if it were a ‘B’ result. Allied land units stay face-up. Shore bombarding ships and ground supporting bombers still turn face-down. If it’s an overrun, you just pay the normal terrain cost, not double.

Using your view this rule can NEVER be put into effect.

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

any hex in Vichy France or Corsica, or with a Vichy France land unit

quote:

17.1 Creation
If you install a Vichy government, Metropolitan France itself is divided into 2 countries - Metropolitan Vichy France (including Corsica if still French controlled) and Occupied France.

quote:

17.5 Combat with Vichy
If Vichy French land units are involved in a land combat, or are overrun, solely by units controlled by an Allied major power they are not hostile to, they may defect before combat.

Roll a die immediately before land combat or the overrun for each Vichy unit (including notional units) involved. On a 4 or less, the Vichy unit is destroyed prior to combat resolution. If no Axis land units remain, an (attacking) Allied major power can advance after combat as if it were a ‘B’ result. Allied land units stay face-up. Shore bombarding ships and ground supporting bombers still turn face-down. If it’s an overrun, you just pay the normal terrain cost, not double.

Subtract 1 from the roll for each Free French or US land unit involved in the combat.

If any unit stays loyal, the combat proceeds against those that remain.

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Sure it can. All it takes is a Vichy French unit sitting in one or more of her colonies, or the first attack (without ground striking or ground supporting) made by units outside of Metropolitan Vichy France on Vichy unit(s) inside of Metropolitan Vichy France. As long as Vichy isn't hostile to the attacker of course, and as long as no other allied units have entered Metropolitan Vichy France previously.

You raise a good question about the Vichy Territorials defecting. As worded in RAW currrently, they don't roll for it, but I will take a question as to design intent back to the RAW8 rules group.

As for the Yahoo group, I don't post questions about rules I'm sure of. Rules there (or anywhere else) are not decided by majority vote. When debate is intense and there are two (or more [:)]) valid positions (doesn't apply here IMO) someone will ask Harry and he'll rule on it. That's how the FAQ got created, essentially.

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Sure it can. All it takes is a Vichy French unit sitting in one or more of her colonies, or the (1) first attack (2)(without ground striking or ground supporting) made by units outside of Metropolitan Vichy France on Vichy unit(s) inside of (3) Metropolitan Vichy France. As long as Vichy isn't hostile to the attacker of course, and as long as no other allied units have entered Metropolitan Vichy France previously.

You raise a good question about the Vichy Territorials defecting. As worded in RAW currrently, they don't roll for it, but I will take a question as to design intent back to the RAW8 rules group.

As for the Yahoo group, I don't post questions about rules I'm sure of. Rules there (or anywhere else) are not decided by majority vote. When debate is intense and there are two (or more [:)]) valid positions (doesn't apply here IMO) someone will ask Harry and he'll rule on it. That's how the FAQ got created, essentially.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Sure it can. All it takes is a Vichy French unit sitting in one or more of her colonies, or the (1) first attack (2)(without ground striking or ground supporting) made by units outside of Metropolitan Vichy France on Vichy unit(s) inside of (3) Metropolitan Vichy France. As long as Vichy isn't hostile to the attacker of course, and as long as no other allied units have entered Metropolitan Vichy France previously.

You raise a good question about the Vichy Territorials defecting. As worded in RAW currrently, they don't roll for it, but I will take a question as to design intent back to the RAW8 rules group.

As for the Yahoo group, I don't post questions about rules I'm sure of. Rules there (or anywhere else) are not decided by majority vote. When debate is intense and there are two (or more [:)]) valid positions (doesn't apply here IMO) someone will ask Harry and he'll rule on it. That's how the FAQ got created, essentially.

I was trying as best I could not to be disrespectful of paulderynck post but it seams to me he has made some misconceptions.

1) First attack - no, it is any ground attack against a non-hostile Vichy unit. After Vichy France is hostile they no longer deffect.

2) Without ground striking or ground supporting - no, ground striking or ground supporting units can be set up but if the unit defects ground striking or ground supporting units stay in place as if they had been used.

3) Vichy unit(s) inside of Metropolitan Vichy France - attacking Metropolitan Vichy France immediately makes Vichy France hostile.



Thank you Paul for the input it is appreciated.

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Sorry but once again you misunderstand.

Hostility happens when you enter Metropolitan Vichy France (MVF). If you ground struck the Vichy unit on its side of the border before you attacked it, then bingo, Vichy is hostile - so you don't do that. Likewise if you ground support the attack - your planes enter MVF before the attack is resolved, so again Vichy would be hostile before the defection could be rolled.

So get a bunch of FF or US units on the border (but not inside MVF) adjacent to a Vichy unit and attack it. It will likely defect. Also note - nothing mandates that you advance. If the axis is dumb enough to keep putting Vichy units next to its border, then you can keep doing it.

It is entering MVF that makes Vichy hostile, not attacking its units.

quote:

On the Yahoo site I believe I read:

If the units don't stop in Metropolitan Vichy France:
Units can fly through Metropolitan Vichy France and not have Vichy go hostile or collapse.
Axis units can rail through Metropolitan Vichy France without causing Vichy collapse.

But then again I read several years worth of Q&A there so dont hold me to it.