Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (Full Version)

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Rainer -> Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (3/20/2013 4:45:08 PM)

What is the MAX number of air groups on board of a US Fleet Carrier so the carrier can still conduct air operations?

Please note: the question is not how many airplanes a carrier can accommodate but the maximum number of air groups.



LoBaron -> RE: Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (3/20/2013 4:51:02 PM)

I am not sure there is any limitation to number of groups - at least not as it is the case with airfield size.
AFAIK, as long as you stay below the 115% limit for plane count you should be fine. Haven't tested this though.



henry1611 -> RE: Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (3/20/2013 4:55:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer

What is the MAX number of air groups on board of a US Fleet Carrier so the carrier can still conduct air operations?

Please note: the question is not how many airplanes a carrier can accommodate but the maximum number of air groups.


5. See this thread --

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2922530



LoBaron -> RE: Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (3/20/2013 5:00:46 PM)

Thanks for digging up that link henry!
If I understand this correctly you would not be allowed to transfer more than 5 groups to a CV, so thats the limitation, not that more would
render flight ops impossible.



Herrbear -> RE: Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (3/20/2013 5:03:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer

What is the MAX number of air groups on board of a US Fleet Carrier so the carrier can still conduct air operations?

Please note: the question is not how many airplanes a carrier can accommodate but the maximum number of air groups.


5 air units is max. (page 142)



Rainer -> RE: Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (3/20/2013 5:16:47 PM)

Thanks LoBaron.
I ask (and didn't find anything in the manual) because:
I lost a fleet carrier near Port Moresby. Before she sank 2 TBs and 2 DBs made it to Cairns.
Now I want to "ferry" those remnants to Noumea on board of another fleet carrier but when I transfer the planes the number of planes aboard the carrier is shown in red. Note: This is the number shown on the transfer screen. The number of planes AFTER the transfer is still less than the max number (76 of 90) and the number on the ship screen is NOT red but green.
The total number of groups is now 6 (see screen shot).
I am concerned the carrier may not be operational with that number of groups on board.
And there are of course some Japanese carriers in the vicinity.
PS: Yes, I know I can fly the planes via Brisbane to Noumea. However, I still want to know the max number of groups (if there is any such number).

[image]local://upfiles/1851/DC78089722074BCCAFD7C35D57DA275A.jpg[/image]



Rainer -> RE: Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (3/20/2013 5:21:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Herrbear

5 air units is max. (page 142)



Thanks a lot :)

EDIT: And next time please post your answer BEFORE I composed my elaborate screen shot [;)][:D]



Rainer -> RE: Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (3/20/2013 5:48:21 PM)

So to finish this:

You can transfer more than 5 groups to a fleet carrier (see my screen shot with 6 groups on the Enterprise).
No more than 5 groups will keep the carrier operational.
And of course the 115 % rule applies.

Thanks to everybody.



jeffk3510 -> RE: Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (3/20/2013 5:50:26 PM)

Five is the MAX to conduct air ops... trust me. You can carry more than five, however. See our AAR if you don't believe me..

Is the %115 or 110... I have always used 110...if it is 115 that is nice to know.



crsutton -> RE: Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (3/20/2013 6:08:49 PM)

And, fragments that fly to your unharmed carrier from a lost or disabled carrier after a battle do not seem to count against the max. That is, the computer does not seem to recognize a fragment as an air group.



Rainer -> RE: Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (3/20/2013 6:35:11 PM)

quote:

Five is the MAX to conduct air ops... trust me. You can carry more than five, however. See our AAR if you don't believe me..


Isn't that what I said?

=> No more than 5 groups will keep the carrier operational.

EDIT: I probably should have said: More than 5 groups will render the carrier inoperational.



Lokasenna -> RE: Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (3/20/2013 7:17:37 PM)

I've got a related question... In my most recent AI start as Japan, I transferred some of the B5N1 and Mabel groups (4 in total, I think) to the KB, hoping to get some extra "oomph" on the Pearl Harbor strike. None of the extra planes flew on December 7.

On December 8, I was able to get one of the extra groups on Akagi to fly, and one of the groups on Soryu, plus some Zero escorts. The groups on Kaga and Shokaku stayed onboard. After December 8, I couldn't stick around because I got exceptionally poor results on the airfield/port strikes on the 7th (not a single BB sunk!).

Akagi had 5 groups. Clearly she was still conducting air ops, but the extras weren't flying. I changed the commanders before December 7 so that they had 50+ in Ld/Insp, as well as 67+ in Air and Aggression, so two days in a row of failed checks shouldn't be all that common... I ran the December 7 turn 3 times - they never flew. Now, I know that there is a huge chance (guaranteed at 400+ planes?) of uncoordinated strikes when you have X number of planes in the TF, but can someone please give some possible reasons why what I tried didn't work?

For the December 8 strikes, I even tried splitting the KB into 2 TFs with 3 CVs each, and just over 200 planes. Ran that turn twice, and both times just the Akagi/Soryu extra groups flew. The 2 TFs were Akagi/Kaga/Shokaku and Hiryu/Soryu/Zuikaku. I had also made sure that none of the CVs had more than 110% capacity, and I think only Akagi was actually over capacity by more than 1-2 planes (but even she was under 110%, and well shy of the 115% limit).



jeffk3510 -> RE: Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (3/20/2013 7:17:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer

quote:

Five is the MAX to conduct air ops... trust me. You can carry more than five, however. See our AAR if you don't believe me..


Isn't that what I said?

=> No more than 5 groups will keep the carrier operational.

EDIT: I probably should have said: More than 5 groups will render the carrier inoperational.


Yes, you just beat me to it... look at the post times...



jeffk3510 -> RE: Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (3/20/2013 7:18:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

And, fragments that fly to your unharmed carrier from a lost or disabled carrier after a battle do not seem to count against the max. That is, the computer does not seem to recognize a fragment as an air group.


I don't seem to find that the case... we had fragments from a destroyed airgroup on one of our CVs in our PBEM game.. and it didn't conduct flight ops as it had 6 groups.. Maybe they weren't considered fragments...my head is spinning.



LoBaron -> RE: Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (3/20/2013 8:12:19 PM)

Thanks guys, good info here. I did not know this.



packerpete -> RE: Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (3/20/2013 11:36:34 PM)

From my experience, fragments DO count against the 5 group max. I could only get a limited number up on cap and I believe some on nav search but NO planes would launch for an offensive air mission.



dr.hal -> RE: Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (4/1/2013 3:04:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Herrbear

5 air units is max. (page 142)



Thanks a lot :)

EDIT: And next time please post your answer BEFORE I composed my elaborate screen shot [;)][:D]

One thing that this thread had a mixed message on and the issue was not cleared up was in relation to the max number of aircraft that a carrier can hold and still be operational. The two figures put forth were 115% and 110%. The question asked was which is right. Page 142 of the manual references the 110% in terms of the max number of aircraft that will be able to return to a carrier if the are trying to land ANYWHERE after their own CV is sunk or otherwise unable to land planes. So I would assume (always a dangerous thing!) that this is also applicable to other forms of aircraft trying to operate from the CV. The max number is 10% over the number indicated as the max a/c the CV can hold. Thus if the CV can hold 90 as indicated in its statistics, then it can hold 99 and still fly but put it up to 100 and it will be a no go (aircraft can't FLY onto a CV if it already holds 99 aircraft in the above example but I am assuming - danger - that aircraft above the number 99 can be loaded in port while the CV is docked).



Sieppo -> RE: Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (6/10/2013 2:48:05 PM)

Is there any final agreement upon how fragments affect the carrier group restriction? For example if I have 5 normal groups and one fragment (maybe I should disband all fragments, they annoy me..)? Or 4 groups and two fragments?

Edit: A fragment is not a group but a dot is not a base as such but is still counted as one so I want hard facts :D!



witpqs -> RE: Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (6/10/2013 5:42:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sieppo

Is there any final agreement upon how fragments affect the carrier group restriction? For example if I have 5 normal groups and one fragment (maybe I should disband all fragments, they annoy me..)? Or 4 groups and two fragments?

Edit: A fragment is not a group but a dot is not a base as such but is still counted as one so I want hard facts :D!

AFAIK fragments do not count.



witpqs -> RE: Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (6/10/2013 5:44:45 PM)

One additional thing to consider is the air support that carriers have. When you look in the editor, you see how much air support a ship is assigned. Recall that for LBA when the number of planes present exceeds the air support, that results in smaller strikes and poorer coordination. Is it the same with carriers? I don't know, but it is something to consider. BTW, the carriers that I looked at all had air support equal to their capacity, so any over stacking at all exceeds the air support present.



geofflambert -> RE: Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (6/10/2013 6:01:10 PM)

I've had over 110% but less than 115% without noticing any effect on air ops. I've seen many citing the 115% number and have relied on that. Also when returning to port after a battle receiving replacements up beyond the 110% number (I believe). As to fragments from another CV landing, we've all seen the films of them pushing planes off the flight deck into the sea after running out of storage space. The pilots saved were the important thing. I can't attest to whether the game actually saves pilots in this way without saving the aircraft.



Sieppo -> RE: Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (6/10/2013 7:17:42 PM)

So no fixed info exists about what is considered a group? I noticed yesterday that it is not possible to add fragments or anything beyond 6, so I thought maybe the sixth was the extra one and hindering operations already..



geofflambert -> RE: Number of Air Groups aboard a carrier (6/10/2013 7:29:48 PM)

Good question. Dunno. But when you divide a squadron, the one labled detachment 1 is effectively the base cadre and must be present to do any rebuilding of the unit.



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