Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (Full Version)

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Kraut -> Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (3/29/2013 11:37:37 AM)

In the past, Matrix Games has cancelled the development of some games that I really had been looking forword to, most of all Combat Leader. Basically Steel Panthers with much improved technology and higher degree of realism. The map scale of 15 Meters per hex alsone would have made a great difference.

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/284/details/Combat.Leader

I can understand the rationale behind this decision, even without having it explained to me explicitly:

The Matrix Games edition of Steel Panthers had already been a huge improvement over the SSI version of the game. A huge number of volunteers, many of them members of this forum, had helped to make Steel Panthers better and more realistic. To replicate this effort for Combat Leader, with a new engine, new rules and completely new graphics would have been too expensive and resource intensive for a developer of the size Matrix had been back then (2003/2004).

They certainly still have the IP, code, artwork etc. Why not just hand all that over to an eager and willing team of developers so that they can put it on Kickstarter? They wouldn't just get the money there, but also a litaral army of volunteers to help with historical reasearch and so on. Turn-based strategy games are a huge hit with the people suporting projeczs on the platform.

The developers could then publish via Matrix Games.

What do you think?

PS: It's been a long time since I posted on this forum...



Rtwfreak -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (3/30/2013 2:02:19 PM)

It probably would have a lot to do with "money". That's what ties a lot of games up over the years. Squad Leader anyone? Master of Magic? and the list goes on. You might think it should be easy to draw some sort of agreement or bargain for the game rights, but, not everybody thinks that way in the capitalist world of greed.



demyansk -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/1/2013 11:19:50 AM)

Has Steel Panthers ever improved on the video clarity?



Kraut -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/1/2013 9:57:24 PM)

I suppose you are right. Everybody thinks that their IP is woth more than it actually is.

Of course, an aging IP such as Combat Leader is dropping in value fast, so the sooner the better they sell it off for whatever they can get.



Kraut -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/1/2013 10:02:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: demjansk

Has Steel Panthers ever improved on the video clarity?


I am not quite sure what you are getting at with video clarity. As far as I know, resolution is still stuck at 800 x 600.








KG Erwin -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/1/2013 10:17:40 PM)

The biggest problem with SPWaW is the age of the code it was written in. It still works with Win XP, so that's fine with me. If you have the Enhanced Version, based on 8.403, it is the best available. See
http://enhanced.freeforums.org/index.php

To redo the game, it would have to be reimagined from the ground up. Still hasn't been attempted, and I fail to understand why. Matrix, for whatever reason, long ago decided to wash its hands of it. That's all I'm at liberty to say.



Kraut -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/2/2013 8:01:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

The biggest problem with SPWaW is the age of the code it was written in. It still works with Win XP, so that's fine with me. If you have the Enhanced Version, based on 8.403, it is the best available. See
http://enhanced.freeforums.org/index.php

To redo the game, it would have to be reimagined from the ground up. Still hasn't been attempted, and I fail to understand why. Matrix, for whatever reason, long ago decided to wash its hands of it. That's all I'm at liberty to say.


So you were helping out?

I wonder what exactly happened to make Matrix games stop development of Combat Leader...



wodin -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/2/2013 10:05:37 PM)

Combat Leader and the other RTS Close Assault set in the Pacfic where two games that brought me to Matrix..both cancelled. I think the issue was they where trying to do two scales in one game for CL and obviously hit problems. Still I'd love to see that taken up and finished off by some here. Noyt sure how far they got..or if the screenshots where the actual game or just place holder images...

Combat Leader more than any other game thats been cancelled I wish to see taken up again..

Anyone who started a kickstarter for a new Steel Panthers would clear up I reckon. Really think Slitherine should consider a kickstarter for a new Steel Panthers or Combat Leader..if it gets funded they don't lose anything. Many bigger developers go to kickstarter these days..so why not here.

SPWW2 if you buy the full version you can use any res..thats why I play it..however the graphics still need some love and care as it can be bit harsh on the eyes and difficult to see the Inf units.



KG Erwin -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/3/2013 4:20:18 AM)

Let me make this clear, Kraut. I participated as an unpaid volunteer in the development of the OOBs for SPWaW version 8.403, specifically in the research for the USMC . I was also an article writer in the "Screaming Eagles" megacampaign. That was the extent of my involvement in SPWaW. I was never involved in the aborted "Combat Leader" project. I was in contact with many gamers during this process, and I've very proud of my involvement. There were some tough times, too, but it was worth it to me. I learned a lot about how the wargame world actually works.

In any case, I can now play SPWaW and enjoy it even more because I was a part of it. It was truly a community project, which made it a special segment of my life. I'd always wanted to be involved in wargame design, and I got my chance. Meeting legendary secenario designer Bill Wilder and Matrix CEO David Heath at a convention in 2005 were special highlights for me.



wodin -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/3/2013 4:49:47 AM)

David Heath I think has quietly left Matrix Games..sad it was never announced.



Kraut -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/3/2013 9:13:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Let me make this clear, Kraut. I participated as an unpaid volunteer in the development of the OOBs for SPWaW version 8.403, specifically in the research for the USMC . I was also an article writer in the "Screaming Eagles" megacampaign. That was the extent of my involvement in SPWaW. I was never involved in the aborted "Combat Leader" project. I was in contact with many gamers during this process, and I've very proud of my involvement. There were some tough times, too, but it was worth it to me. I learned a lot about how the wargame world actually works.

In any case, I can now play SPWaW and enjoy it even more because I was a part of it. It was truly a community project, which made it a special segment of my life. I'd always wanted to be involved in wargame design, and I got my chance. Meeting legendary secenario designer Bill Wilder and Matrix CEO David Heath at a convention in 2005 were special highlights for me.


I wasn't casting any aspersions, KG Erwin. I was thinking about OOBs when I speculated about your involvement. Good to hear about your work as article writer.

SPWaW is awesome, thanks to the community effort. I think that it would have taken a similar community effort to make Combat Leader as good as SPWaW already is. And that on top of what CL requires to make two different scales work.



Kraut -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/3/2013 9:28:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Combat Leader and the other RTS Close Assault set in the Pacfic where two games that brought me to Matrix..both cancelled. I think the issue was they where trying to do two scales in one game for CL and obviously hit problems. Still I'd love to see that taken up and finished off by some here. Noyt sure how far they got..or if the screenshots where the actual game or just place holder images...

Combat Leader more than any other game thats been cancelled I wish to see taken up again..

Anyone who started a kickstarter for a new Steel Panthers would clear up I reckon. Really think Slitherine should consider a kickstarter for a new Steel Panthers or Combat Leader..if it gets funded they don't lose anything. Many bigger developers go to kickstarter these days..so why not here.

SPWW2 if you buy the full version you can use any res..thats why I play it..however the graphics still need some love and care as it can be bit harsh on the eyes and difficult to see the Inf units.


The screenshots of Combat Leader you see on the announcement site are just there to give you an overview.

There was an official thread were one of Matrix' graphical artists posted screenshots of how CL would have looked like, if finished.

At the 15m per hex scale, the vehicles and infantrymen were pretty much in scale to the buildings. You could see each dead soldier lying on the ground.
They, too looked in scale to the vehicles. It would have looked awesome.

That in comparison to Steel Panthers, were you get a kind of magnifying glass effect from the 50m hexes.


That old thread is archived and unfortunately only accessible with Matrix credentials:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=7




Kraut -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/3/2013 9:29:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

David Heath I think has quietly left Matrix Games..sad it was never announced.


Too bad. I liked what I read from him on the forum.



demyansk -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/4/2013 1:02:51 PM)

Place a lot of the games at 9.99 and you would see more gamers buying the titles that are rarely played



Sarge -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/4/2013 10:08:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

David Heath I think has quietly left Matrix Games..sad it was never announced.


He’s still listed as the Director of Operations ,why would they not announce something like that ?



KG Erwin -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/5/2013 2:32:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

David Heath I think has quietly left Matrix Games..sad it was never announced.


He’s still listed as the Director of Operations ,why would they not announce something like that ?


It means he no longer runs the business. That explains much, and means that Matrix (as I knew it) has been truly co-opted. That makes me sad, but in today's business world, it doesn't surprise me.

I AM thankful that this once-independent company gave this gamer a chance to contribute a few things to the wargame world.



Sarge -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/5/2013 2:48:46 AM)

Agreed, David ‘n Matrix is basically the only reason I gave PC war gamming any interest at all. I still prefer the “tangible” aspect of table top counters (just seems to fit the hobby) vs other games I play like StratcOMatic where the PC makes stat compiling worth the switch.

I wish him ‘n his the best in their travels, truly one of those rare class acts the hobby has been lucky enough to run into…….. but seriously ?...no announcement seems very odd



demyansk -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/5/2013 12:49:52 PM)

hey sarge, how is strato matic on the computer? I used to play the board game years ago.



Sarge -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/5/2013 1:00:51 PM)

Even more addictive than ever, the game does a fantastic job of compiling stats and with its proven transparent engine it blows away other PC baseball on the market ……….it’s expensive though, $60 for the base game $30 for color ballparks and $12-$25 for additional roster .

The historical accuracy is amazing, even has a option to roll your own dice and just input the results…



demyansk -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/6/2013 1:05:20 PM)

Thats a lot of money to spend on the game,



Rtwfreak -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/7/2013 4:13:39 AM)

quote:

The historical accuracy is amazing, even has a option to roll your own dice and just input the results…


This is what more computer games need along with combat results tables we can look at and hold. One of the things I miss most about board gaming is the touch and feel of it. Sliding the die for some double 6's or 1's hehe Ahhhhh memories some of the best things in life.



Sarge -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/7/2013 11:05:18 AM)

I asked a developer some years back when some issue of “die rolls” came up, I suggested to put the dice and results on screen as an option and used stratomatic as an example ……..they laughed


[image]local://upfiles/8678/5616DDE894FD4FAFA66D3B27EFA8C1AE.jpg[/image]



Rtwfreak -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/7/2013 4:50:12 PM)

Are the players animated in that Strat-O-Matic game Sarge?



Sarge -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/7/2013 6:38:01 PM)

pitcher ‘n batter are, but it adds nothing to the game play , it’s more of a stat/fantasy game of replaying enter season from the mangers perspective ………..you don’t have to worry about giving popcorn venders a raise ,salaries, ticket sales or any of the other crap developers like to put into sport sims…….just baseball and its strategy , best of all there is zero difference between the board game and the PC version , huge community with plenty of leagues to join.

Start o has had a loyal following for decades, iirc since the early 60’s, if you’re looking for a historical baseball sim with historical/realistic stats this is the best out there, and trust me I’ve tried them all.

truly a monster game in wargame terms, encyclopedia historical/replay, team and league HTML viewers more stats then even a fanatical fantasy fan satisfied……….if anyone is think of purchasing make sure you get the top of the line with all the bells ‘n whistles (card images) the lite/hall of fame versions sux and are not upgradable to the deluxe engine……….



[image]local://upfiles/8678/053EEE00175B44F68F07604673593112.jpg[/image]



Rtwfreak -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/7/2013 7:38:21 PM)

Does it have the modern day stadiums?



Sarge -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/7/2013 8:07:16 PM)

yes, you get all the modern parks but in b/w if you want to mod/customized with hi res color there is a add-on along with another add-on for historical parks

http://www.strat-o-matic.com/



Rtwfreak -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/7/2013 8:10:01 PM)

What are the leagues like? Do you play h2h via some msg program or do you just send in your lineups and one person runs them with computer results?



Sarge -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/7/2013 8:18:04 PM)

H2H , the game comes with a game lobby for league play



Hanal -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/7/2013 9:06:40 PM)

I've played OOTP since version 2 and have preordered 2013, but I will admit that the engine is getting a bit stale for me...since I have never been able to get into Baseball Mogul, I think I'll instead check Strat out for some baseball variety....



Zap -> RE: Putting discontinued Matrix Games projects on Kickstarter? (4/7/2013 10:15:25 PM)

Hi Sarge,

Hey, I know Stat-o-Matic made a football game as well. Played the board game. has that been transported to computer? If so, is it the same price as the Baseball.



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