Fuel Disaster!

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blueatoll -> Fuel Disaster! (4/10/2013 6:42:35 PM)
Someone please help! I am playing the Allies in the 'Quiet China' campaign game. I am desperately short of fuel at all my forward bases and it seemed like the auto-convoy system was shunting my few tankers and oilers to backwaters instead of near the front. I have had at least 3 task forces run out of fuel or be trapped in far-away ports due to lack of fuel. I am now directly managing the tankers and oilers and still not keeping up with demand at forward bases (especially in eastern Australia and around Noumea). Can anyone offer suggestions? The war effort is seriously being put on hold because I can't move fuel fast enough.

geofflambert -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/10/2013 6:47:05 PM)
Don't use auto convoy, I hate that. It's mindless. Of course, that has been said of me, as well. [8\|]

Canoerebel -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/10/2013 6:57:45 PM)
Shut down heavy industry in Australia (Syndey has it, for instance). That will allow you to accumulate a little bit of fuel in Oz that can be used for shipping. It's inefficient to try to send fuel to small bases or dot hexes. They don't hold much and unloading tankers is very slow. So you've got to choose some bases to serve as "oil hubs." Get engineers to those bases and begin building. There are lots of options, but many players start with Christmas Island (Pacific) and Tahiti. Until you get those bases in shape, send as much fuel forward from West Coast to Pearl. At least you'll be moving it forward. You can also shuttle fuel foward from the USA to Capetown and thence to India and Australia. Obviously, you need to have your tankers effectively spread around - long-range tankers serving in long streches of the Pacific and from Capetown to Oz; short-range tankers handling the smaller distances and ports. Don't forget that xAKs can carry fuel. They carry something like half loads, but it can be quite useful and effective. Good luck!

Canoerebel -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/10/2013 6:59:01 PM)
Also, use your AOs early as mobile refueling stations well behind the front lines. You can spread them about the map to help refuel convoys and combat ships while you're getting your system up and running.

blueatoll -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/10/2013 7:09:51 PM)
Thanks for the advice. I'll shut down the heavy industry right away. I assume that doesn't affect replacements and new units. Noumea, Suva, and Pago Pago are all Level 3 ports (Noumea may be a level 4). Is that big enough to unload fuel at? I'm in the process of moving all my long-distance hauling AKs at to California. I am loading AKs with fuel constantly. The Japanese took Baker Island so I've got to route convoys the long-way to avoid Bettys around Canton Island. Canton Island has repelled 2 invasions already (sinking a CA, 2 CLs, and 4 DDs along with a bunch of marus) and I've got Christmas Island cranking up the port size too.

RogerJNeilson -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/10/2013 7:32:26 PM)
Abadan takes care of your Indian needs. You can also - Jap permitting, send fuel from it to Diego Garcia. East USA to Cape Town is a good route for fuel and supplies and cannot be interdicted by the enemy. Set up some CS convoys from there to the Cape, then as you need supplies send it from the Cape to India, Diego, Perth and southern Oz ports. Aden's not much use until the Med opens in 1943. Roger

Canoerebel -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/10/2013 9:01:28 PM)
Noumea, Suva and Pago Pago are often too close to danger to serve as effective fuel or supply dumps in '42 and first half of '43. Too prone to raids by enemy carriers, combat ships and subs. And who wants to create a nice fuel depot only to see the enemy take the base. So usually you need to position your dumps further back. Christmas Island and Tahiti are good candidates, but there are lots of others.

Schanilec -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/10/2013 9:07:42 PM)
In the beginning I use anything I can get my grubby little hands on not so much AP types, but you must. If I could I'd be using those useless little AMc's. Australia is always a headache to fuel up. It won't improve somewhat until sometime in 1943. I'm at 25 March 1944 and still trying to keep Australia quenched.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/10/2013 9:13:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Schanilec I'm at 25 March 1944 and still trying to keep Australia quenched. It helps a lot to take Balikpapan. [:)]

slane_slith -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/10/2013 9:48:51 PM)
Would stockpiling in Sydney do any good for refueling or does that only help industry? Make sure your ships aren't refueling before they disband in your ports. I set my CS stuff to minimal. Everything else is do not refuel. If your sending a TF out select your ships, set the destination' set fuel to minimal, refuel and then let them go.

Schanilec -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/10/2013 10:12:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: Schanilec I'm at 25 March 1944 and still trying to keep Australia quenched. It helps a lot to take Balikpapan. [:)] Oh, thaaaaank you that helps. Why I oughta mortify you.[:D]

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/10/2013 10:22:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Schanilec quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: Schanilec I'm at 25 March 1944 and still trying to keep Australia quenched. It helps a lot to take Balikpapan. [:)] Oh, thaaaaank you that helps. Why I oughta mortify you.[:D] Nyuk, nyuk! [:)] Better days are coming. It's snowing here in the west metro BTW. They can't decide if it'll be 6 inches tonight or twelve. Just texted my stepdaughter. She's in Miami at a five-star resort for a sales conference. She reports it is NOT snowing there.

Schanilec -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/10/2013 11:18:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: Schanilec quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: Schanilec I'm at 25 March 1944 and still trying to keep Australia quenched. It helps a lot to take Balikpapan. [:)] Oh, thaaaaank you that helps. Why I oughta mortify you.[:D] Nyuk, nyuk! [:)] Better days are coming. It's snowing here in the west metro BTW. They can't decide if it'll be 6 inches tonight or twelve. Just texted my stepdaughter. She's in Miami at a five-star resort for a sales conference. She reports it is NOT snowing there. Ground her butt![:D]

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/11/2013 12:03:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Schanilec quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: Schanilec quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: Schanilec I'm at 25 March 1944 and still trying to keep Australia quenched. It helps a lot to take Balikpapan. [:)] Oh, thaaaaank you that helps. Why I oughta mortify you.[:D] Nyuk, nyuk! [:)] Better days are coming. It's snowing here in the west metro BTW. They can't decide if it'll be 6 inches tonight or twelve. Just texted my stepdaughter. She's in Miami at a five-star resort for a sales conference. She reports it is NOT snowing there. Ground her butt![:D] She was All-Metro volleyball and went to UConn on a full scholarship. 6ft.1 and it's all muscle. I'm a little scared.

dcpollay -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/11/2013 3:02:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel Shut down heavy industry in Australia (Syndey has it, for instance). That will allow you to accumulate a little bit of fuel in Oz that can be used for shipping. How do you "shut down" industry? I can't find any buttons to do it.

Blackhorse -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/11/2013 3:04:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: Schanilec quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: Schanilec quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: Schanilec I'm at 25 March 1944 and still trying to keep Australia quenched. It helps a lot to take Balikpapan. [:)] Oh, thaaaaank you that helps. Why I oughta mortify you.[:D] Nyuk, nyuk! [:)] Better days are coming. It's snowing here in the west metro BTW. They can't decide if it'll be 6 inches tonight or twelve. Just texted my stepdaughter. She's in Miami at a five-star resort for a sales conference. She reports it is NOT snowing there. Ground her butt![:D] She was All-Metro volleyball and went to UConn on a full scholarship. 6ft.1 and it's all muscle. I'm a little scared. No problem. Ask her Mom to ground her.

Blackhorse -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/11/2013 3:10:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slane Would stockpiling in Sydney do any good for refueling or does that only help industry? Make sure your ships aren't refueling before they disband in your ports. I set my CS stuff to minimal. Everything else is do not refuel. If your sending a TF out select your ships, set the destination' set fuel to minimal, refuel and then let them go. +1 but I'd take this advice a step further. Refueling your thirsty convoys after they arrive in Australia can suck up much/most of the precious fuel you just delivered. Set your convoys from the West Coast to the South Pacific and Australia to do not refuel. Use waypoints -- first waypoint is PH with "full refuel", then "yes" to "return same route". After the first few convoys you will get a sense of what mix of vessels can make it to Oz and back without needing to refuel there at all.

Alfred -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/11/2013 3:48:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Colonel Mustard quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel Shut down heavy industry in Australia (Syndey has it, for instance). That will allow you to accumulate a little bit of fuel in Oz that can be used for shipping. How do you "shut down" industry? I can't find any buttons to do it. You can do it via two screens. 1. On the Base Screen, the bottom row of buttons list the industry located at that base. Either click on the All Industry button (first on the left) or hover over the individual type of industry button you want to close down and click that. If the ON under Production is in yellow you can click on it to toggle it to OFF. 2. Short cut key "j" brings up all your industry facilities. Navigate to the desired industry and again click on the yellow ON production button to toggle off. Note which Allied industrial facility you can toggle on or off is dependent on which exe version you have. Current official and beta patch does not allow for Light Industry to be toggled off. And yes, notwithstanding what some "experienced" players would have you believe, it is possible to experience adverse results from indiscriminate shutting down of Allied industry. Alfred

crsutton -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/11/2013 8:03:05 PM)
If I recall, tankers were a little short in the early days. But you have so many large xAK and generally can't use but about half of them as you are not shipping many troops or supply in the early days. Just make a bunch of large xAK convoys and put them to work. They only carry half a load of fuel but if you use enough you should never have fuel problems. I did not bother turning off industry in Oz. Just don't ship fuel there and it will turn itself off, but still produce enough supply. Make sure you have three or four large xAk convoys shuttling fuel from the east coast to Cape Town. You will need fuel there. And then ship it to either Nomuea or Hobart if Nomuea is threatened. Keep a big reserve and don't worry too much about OZ. Have another half dozen large AK convoys working the West Coast to the South Pacific. Also, don't send all of your old BBs and carriers to the South Pacific in 1942. It is tempting to do so but they suck up gas. Tell you the truth. I never turned off OZ industry, never really set my ships to minimum fuel or do not refuel and never really had too much trouble with fuel after early 42. One thing the Allies get is surplus shipping. Put it to use......

98ZJUSMC -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/12/2013 8:29:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel Shut down heavy industry in Australia (Syndey has it, for instance). That will allow you to accumulate a little bit of fuel in Oz that can be used for shipping. It's inefficient to try to send fuel to small bases or dot hexes. They don't hold much and unloading tankers is very slow. So you've got to choose some bases to serve as "oil hubs." Get engineers to those bases and begin building. There are lots of options, but many players start with Christmas Island (Pacific) and Tahiti. Until you get those bases in shape, send as much fuel forward from West Coast to Pearl. At least you'll be moving it forward. You can also shuttle fuel foward from the USA to Capetown and thence to India and Australia. Obviously, you need to have your tankers effectively spread around - long-range tankers serving in long streches of the Pacific and from Capetown to Oz; short-range tankers handling the smaller distances and ports. Don't forget that xAKs can carry fuel. They carry something like half loads, but it can be quite useful and effective. Good luck! Thanks for the HI tip. Wouldn't have thought of that. I am running into the same hassles Aug-Oct 42. My TKs are running their guts out. I built up Christmas and Palmyra, then jumped to Canton/Pago Pago and Suva. Suva was a MAJOR bottleneck for awhile. Capetown has excellent fuel supplies right now. I'll watch that. OK, let's see if I can't kick start some fuel storage in Sydney or I'm going to have to fire some S-4/G-4 OICs. The AOs make a good (temporary) gas station. Definitely use it.

98ZJUSMC -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/12/2013 8:32:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crsutton If I recall, tankers were a little short in the early days. They are. Almost all the non-US TKs are short range, also. Intercontinental range AKs start coming online mid-42 and make good stop gaps to keep the early offensives going. quote: ORIGINAL: crsutton Also, don't send all of your old BBs and carriers to the South Pacific in 1942. It is tempting to do so but they suck up gas. I did and they do!

dcpollay -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/12/2013 10:45:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alfred quote: ORIGINAL: Colonel Mustard quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel Shut down heavy industry in Australia (Syndey has it, for instance). That will allow you to accumulate a little bit of fuel in Oz that can be used for shipping. How do you "shut down" industry? I can't find any buttons to do it. You can do it via two screens. 1. On the Base Screen, the bottom row of buttons list the industry located at that base. Either click on the All Industry button (first on the left) or hover over the individual type of industry button you want to close down and click that. If the ON under Production is in yellow you can click on it to toggle it to OFF. 2. Short cut key "j" brings up all your industry facilities. Navigate to the desired industry and again click on the yellow ON production button to toggle off. Note which Allied industrial facility you can toggle on or off is dependent on which exe version you have. Current official and beta patch does not allow for Light Industry to be toggled off. And yes, notwithstanding what some "experienced" players would have you believe, it is possible to experience adverse results from indiscriminate shutting down of Allied industry. Alfred Thanks, Alfred. I was not able to locate the function on the Base Screen (see screenshot), but I did find it on the "j" command. Now I have to figure out if its worth shutting down. I'll probably play around with it, since I'm supposed to be learning the game.... [image]local://upfiles/43438/3D027B1FE4DB4FC1A02DC541C1AA8D92.jpg[/image]

ny59giants -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/12/2013 11:44:29 PM)
Especially through '42, I use the Allies xAKs that have a 'liquid' capacity to carry fuel. You should have enough xAKs to move supplies and then you will get the massive number of Liberty Class xAKs to help out there. I got MichaelM to fix them not fully loading a few beta patches ago. I group my TKs and xAKs as TKs in three groups. The 16 & 17 knot go together, the 13 & 14 knot, and then the 12 knot. Next, you will need to do some micro-management. Once they load up somewhere in USA, select "Do Not Refuel" so they don't go to the next base, unload, and refuel from the stockpile you are trying to build up. Bases like Pearl, Christmas Island (Line Islands), and in the Society Island group (Tahiti and/or Bora Bora) are great for a waypoint to top of fuel. If your TK/xAKs arrive at a base like Aukland and are unloaded, then you need them to get back to USA with less than 10% fuel. You now select "Minimal Refuel" option AFTER you select a base like Christmas (refuels just enough plus 10%). This will have you get just enough fuel from Aukland when you do click on "Refuel from Port." You will do the same thing once you get to Christmas and select a USA base. Most of my transports arrive back to USA with fuel less than 10%. If more, then they didn't need to refuel. One other thing you will need to do is micro-manage your bases across the big Pacific. If you try to go from USA to Aukland with three waypoints in between, then your low endurance escorts (APDs, PC, AM, SC, etc.) will be refueling every few turns and slow down your progress. You will need to go to someplace in the Line Islands as you destination. Once there select another about half way to NZ. Finally, the base in NZ.

Alfred -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/13/2013 6:31:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Colonel Mustard quote: ORIGINAL: Alfred quote: ORIGINAL: Colonel Mustard quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel Shut down heavy industry in Australia (Syndey has it, for instance). That will allow you to accumulate a little bit of fuel in Oz that can be used for shipping. How do you "shut down" industry? I can't find any buttons to do it. You can do it via two screens. 1. On the Base Screen, the bottom row of buttons list the industry located at that base. Either click on the All Industry button (first on the left) or hover over the individual type of industry button you want to close down and click that. If the ON under Production is in yellow you can click on it to toggle it to OFF. 2. Short cut key "j" brings up all your industry facilities. Navigate to the desired industry and again click on the yellow ON production button to toggle off. Note which Allied industrial facility you can toggle on or off is dependent on which exe version you have. Current official and beta patch does not allow for Light Industry to be toggled off. And yes, notwithstanding what some "experienced" players would have you believe, it is possible to experience adverse results from indiscriminate shutting down of Allied industry. Alfred Thanks, Alfred. I was not able to locate the function on the Base Screen (see screenshot), but I did find it on the "j" command. Now I have to figure out if its worth shutting down. I'll probably play around with it, since I'm supposed to be learning the game.... [image]local://upfiles/43438/3D027B1FE4DB4FC1A02DC541C1AA8D92.jpg[/image] Sorry, I left it a bit ambiguous. When you click on a hex which contains a base, usually for the purpose of accessing the base screen, you will get on the bottom of your screen a display of several rows of data. These rows remain on your screen even after you exist the "base screen", provided you remain in that hex. What you are looking for is shown on the screen shot found on page 225 of the manual. Alfred

Banzan -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/13/2013 10:25:12 AM)
As ny59giants already said, you don't have enough tankers, but you have far more xAKs as you need. For the japanese players, using AKs isn't recommend due its bad "real" fuel gain, but as allies, you won't run out of fuel and xAKs. :) In '42 and only against the AI(!), i always have 6 fuel convoys running to australia: 1 from Colombo (filled with fuel from Abadan) to Perth using fast tankers and 2 AMCs and 2 DDs as escorts (plotted close to map border) 1 from West Coast or Pearl to Sydney with Tankers/AOs, 1 CA or modern CL and 4 DDs as escourts (plotted far below Suva) 3 from West Coast or Pearl to Sidney with xAKs, 1 old CL and 2 DM/DMS as ecorts (plotted below Suva) 1 from Cape Town to Perth using xAKs with additional liquid storage (dutch ones i think?) with DDs or AMs as escorts (Cape Town is refueled from East Coast using CS-Convoys). Use of West Coast or Pearl depends on use of Pearl, fuel status etc. I often decide again from convoy to convoy.

dcpollay -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (4/13/2013 2:23:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alfred Sorry, I left it a bit ambiguous. When you click on a hex which contains a base, usually for the purpose of accessing the base screen, you will get on the bottom of your screen a display of several rows of data. These rows remain on your screen even after you exist the "base screen", provided you remain in that hex. What you are looking for is shown on the screen shot found on page 225 of the manual. Alfred Bingo! Found it. Thanks again, Alfred.

jakla1027 -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (3/31/2014 8:00:38 AM)
So I'm trying to use my AO's in replenishment TF but, they are taking forever to load fuel at Pearl! I have over 120k fuel at Pearl with a port size of 7, plenty nav support as well. What am I doing wrong? I have regular tanker TF setup running fuel to Pearl & OZ and they load fuel in about 2-4 days and unload fuel in the same number of days regardless of the base. (SF, LA, Pearl, Sydney, with a TF of 5-10 tankers, 30k plus fuel capacity) My AO's are in a 6 ship Replenishment TF, 2 AO's, 4 DD's. They're docked & have been loading fuel now at Pearl for 8 days straight & still have about 5000 left to load out of about 23k total capacity for the two AO's combined. Any advice would be great!!! Thanks

mike scholl 1 -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (3/31/2014 8:12:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: geofflambert Don't use auto convoy, I hate that. It's mindless. Couldn't agree more, Geoff. The AI should be recognized for what it truly is..., (A)nimated (I)gnorance. Even with all of Andy's scripting, what the AI delivers is the illusion of meaningful activity..., not a challenge (or in this case) an aid.

pmelheck1 -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (3/31/2014 10:35:06 AM)
I know if my AO's take forever to load or if there is a large backlog awaiting loading or unloading I disband my replenishment TF and load the AO's in port. I know you can do this with the beta patch. But with the larger AO's it's still going to take 2-3 days for them to top off. I try to always keep my AO's and AE's loaded in port so when I need a Replenishment TF it's good to go when formed and won't need to spend several days loading before being deployed. I also never use auto convoy just the CS setting for cargo TF's and it works fine.

jmalter -> RE: Fuel Disaster! (3/31/2014 11:11:24 AM)
Lack of fuel can be a big prob for the early-war Allies - but IMO the best solution is to accept that fact, & plan fuel-shipments to aid mid-/late-war capabilities. Don't use your limited early-war TK/AO assets in support of ineffectual operations - use them to build large fuel-stocks at Cape Town. Aden, & Pearl. Don't expose your TK/AO shipping to enemy action - use them mostly for 'off-map' shipping. Augment this shipping w/ xAK convoys.

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