Some questions on random games (Full Version)

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mantrain -> Some questions on random games (4/10/2013 10:51:02 PM)

I notice my units run out of supply, and I am not sure why is that happening. how do I know how many HQ's I need, where to develop resources, etc? Do formations get their supply from their HQ, and thus need to stay close to their HQ's? Do you need an HQ to enhance production of a city, or are HQ's and city production completely separate. thanks



ernieschwitz -> RE: Some questions on random games (4/10/2013 11:35:05 PM)

If i where you, iŽd play the tutorials (again).

And especially take note of the fact that you can set cities to produce stuff, supplies among other things, and that these are neccessary for your troops. Production sites only produce if connected to a HQ, and troops only recieve supply from HQs that are connected to them.



mantrain -> RE: Some questions on random games (4/10/2013 11:39:12 PM)

is connection related just to proximity? Other than assigning a formation to an HQ



ernieschwitz -> RE: Some questions on random games (4/10/2013 11:43:23 PM)

There are many things to consider when connecting a HQ to a production site. One thing is, will it be in range. Another thing is, what can it produce, will it be useful.

There are also things to consider when connecting units to HQs. Does my HQ have enough staff to adequately command that sized an Army. (If no, then bonuses from being with range of the HQ deminish). Also units have to be within supply range, and preferably within command range (for bonuses).

You can create chains of HQs ... of course, the top one supplying all the others...



Twotribes -> RE: Some questions on random games (4/10/2013 11:56:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mantrain

is connection related just to proximity? Other than assigning a formation to an HQ

click over the hex to a city. look at the bottom row of bars. On the far left side will be two that look like factories or cities I forget which. One opens the window to assign production to the city the other has HQ on it and allows you to assign that city to a specific hqs. Within the window to assign production on the bottom you also have a button to assign that city to a headquarters the difference is outside the production window you manually scroll to the hqs and click in, in production window you get a list of all your hqs to chose from.



mantrain -> RE: Some questions on random games (4/11/2013 5:21:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes


quote:

ORIGINAL: mantrain

is connection related just to proximity? Other than assigning a formation to an HQ

click over the hex to a city. look at the bottom row of bars. On the far left side will be two that look like factories or cities I forget which. One opens the window to assign production to the city the other has HQ on it and allows you to assign that city to a specific hqs. Within the window to assign production on the bottom you also have a button to assign that city to a headquarters the difference is outside the production window you manually scroll to the hqs and click in, in production window you get a list of all your hqs to chose from.


I am not sure I found what you are referring me to. Are the bars on the map hex, or at the info box?
Also,do we need to have an HQ on every city?



Josh -> RE: Some questions on random games (4/11/2013 3:14:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mantrain

I notice my units run out of supply, and I am not sure why is that happening. how do I know how many HQ's I need, where to develop resources, etc? Do formations get their supply from their HQ, and thus need to stay close to their HQ's? Do you need an HQ to enhance production of a city, or are HQ's and city production completely separate. thanks


Yes formations do get their supply from their HQ. So they need to stay close. It also depends on what type of movement the unit has and what kind of terrain or weather. There is a supply overlay button so you can see how much supply goes to what hex, green is good and red is bad. Supply travels freely over railroads/roads, but has limited reach over wooded areas, muddy terrain, hills and so on... makes sense no? So a fast halftrack unit may still be "green" that is in supply, 10 hexes away from its HQ... but the moment the mud arrives, the Rasputitsa, it will be out of supply... as the virtual (you don't need actual trains/trucks/horses for supplying) horses/trucks just can't get there.

I usually play as follows, all the cities producing supply are connected to my Supreme HQ (SHQ), and all the subordinate HQ's get their supply from that SHQ (usually...not always, because sometimes the distance is too great). So from that HQ all the supply trickles down to the last frontline units. Stuff that gets produced goes to either the SHQ or local HQ depots ( an HQ that is subordinate to the SHQ but 20-30 hexes away from the frontlines) They can either form new units that then get sent to the frontline HQ's, or the HQ depots send reinforcements piecemeal to the frontline units.

So how many HQ's do you need? Depends on your style of playing. I have one SHQ, a few HQ depots, and many frontline HQ's that do the actual fighting. The SHQ and HQ depots don't need much staff... but the frontline HQ's *do* (up to 100-110%). How much HQ's does your frontline need? Well considering the fact that an HQ has a coverage of say 10 hexes with 100%-80%- 60% HQ bonus, you can then do the math. So a huge front of say 50-60 hexes long would need 5-6 HQ's with their subordinate units.

It could also be that you don't produce enough supply in your cities, only cities can produce supply, factories can't. If you have a decent size force you can end up with 2-3 of your cities only producing supply... not good as they then can't produce Political Points which is important for the tech race. I usually start with my main cities producing a few hundred supply per turn, but that can go as high as a few thousand per turn later in the game.



mantrain -> RE: Some questions on random games (4/11/2013 4:56:59 PM)

Ok, that makes sense Josh, thanks. In a practice random scenario a couple of formations went too far out exploring, and well, they appeared to poop out. The are dead in the mud or something, w not enough AP to move, turn after turn. Would I need to build a string of HQ's to their areas to get them up and running again. They seem to far out even to transfer resources to.



phatkarp -> RE: Some questions on random games (4/11/2013 5:03:23 PM)

I do it the same way Josh does, but even simpler. I have my capital responsible for producing supply, and it sends all of its supply to Supreme HQ. When you create a new HQ, the game asks you to set an HQ for that HQ. I set it to Supreme HQ. I don't have any cities making supply for the subordinate HQ. Since they are under Supreme HQ, Supreme HQ will automatically send them supply from their stock. The only exception is when a city is cut-off from Supreme HQ, (i.e. no rail or ocean connect), which happens on a lot of random maps. Then I have the isolated city produce supply for the local HQ directly.

A useful thing to check: there is a line graph button on the toolbar that takes you to various information screens. One of those is "supply". There are some very helpful numbers there. You can click on various HQ's on the order-of-battle display, and their supply stats will show up on the bottom of the info screen. I usually just click on Supreme HQ. There are 3 figures I pay attention to: Supply produced, Subordinate Requests, and Free Reserves. You want production to outpace requests, and you want to have a decent buffer of free reserves built up.




mantrain -> RE: Some questions on random games (4/11/2013 5:18:02 PM)

Phat,So for supreme HQ, you only make supply? or will it also produce staff?



Josh -> RE: Some questions on random games (4/11/2013 7:14:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mantrain

Ok, that makes sense Josh, thanks. In a practice random scenario a couple of formations went too far out exploring, and well, they appeared to poop out. The are dead in the mud or something, w not enough AP to move, turn after turn. Would I need to build a string of HQ's to their areas to get them up and running again. They seem to far out even to transfer resources to.


The answer to that would be; engineers, the most underrated troops of all. Supply flows through roads mostly, and engineers buils roads. Ergo, if you want to conquer territory build roads. (depending on the game ofcourse, some games already have plenty roads). So you do not need HQ's to cover all of your territory with supply, it doesn't work that way, but you do need a road network to keep your HQ's and troops supplied. Which makes sense.
So this game reflects pretty wel the problems the germans faced in the mud, the Rasputitsa, no roads or rails and in muddy conditions = recipe for disaster. I think the range for 100% supply in muddy conditions is 3 hexes only... so 3 hexes from a railroad, any farther than that and your supplies will dwindle. You can check that on the supply button on the unit counter, green = good, yellow = alert, red = pay attention fast otherwise this unit won't be moving much. The solution is to either build a road to that unit or do an airsupply.

You can transfer resources to an isolated HQ, not an unit. You do that by clicking on the Strategic Transfer button, and click on the way you want to transfer these goods, either rail, seatransport or by trucks/ halftracks. Trucks and halftracks give you a transport capability independent of the railnetwork, which makes sense as trucks are off road capable. These trucks have to be in your HQ and the strategic transport costs you a humongous amount of supply and oil, and you'd need 20-30 trucks or so to achieve any distance... to reach that isolated unit.

So yeah long story short, use engineers and build roads [:D]



phatkarp -> RE: Some questions on random games (4/11/2013 7:44:28 PM)

I usually have no staff in my supreme HQ, as it is not a combat HQ and will not benefit from having permanent staff. Staff are not required to fulfill the supply distribution function: they only exist to add combat bonuses to directly subordinate combat units. I have my capital make as much supply as I need, and spend the rest on PP's, aircraft, or whatever else I want and can afford.



mantrain -> RE: Some questions on random games (4/12/2013 4:01:13 PM)

Can someone tell me why an Hq production output would all be a 0 X whatever it is I am trying to produce? I am trying to produce at of a sub HQ and for whatever reason it won't make stuff!



Tac2i -> RE: Some questions on random games (4/12/2013 4:53:10 PM)

I sent you a PM about 2 years ago with several links that help explain supply and other things.

See this link: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2769044

Key Concepts and Tips

Quick Reference Guide

Vic's ATG Strategy Guide

Also, have you read this: Supply for Newbies? It is written for the old AT game but still pretty accurate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mantrain

Can someone tell me why an Hq production output would all be a 0 X whatever it is I am trying to produce? I am trying to produce at of a sub HQ and for whatever reason it won't make stuff!

[image]local://upfiles/16226/58E10C418A4744C9949CB333004D8940.jpg[/image]



mantrain -> RE: Some questions on random games (4/12/2013 6:27:24 PM)

Very helpful!



Josh -> RE: Some questions on random games (4/12/2013 9:33:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mantrain

Can someone tell me why an Hq production output would all be a 0 X whatever it is I am trying to produce? I am trying to produce at of a sub HQ and for whatever reason it won't make stuff!


You probably have no Ore left, so whatever you try to build the outcome is zero. Watch those numbers at the top of your screen.

@ Webizen; your post should be stickied somewhere's, it's all you ever wanted to know about ATG and then some. A *must* read for beginners and seasoned players maybe as well. [&o]



mantrain -> RE: Some questions on random games (4/12/2013 11:43:49 PM)

Still, there doesn't seem to be much elaboration that I can find on production. I just realized that Hq's are assigned to a city, duh. How do I assess the capact of an HQ? I mean, I can't assign 10 cities to an HQ? What are the requirements for each city to produce? Ok, we need ore and oil... but how much? Do we need an HQ for each city to produce? How can I evaluate a city production to determine what is its limiting factor (ie, the city that I have that won't produce until I assign an HQ to it, then it pumps out stuff.



mantrain -> RE: Some questions on random games (4/13/2013 12:19:02 AM)

And what about a nuke? Can we ever make one?



Tac2i -> RE: Some questions on random games (4/13/2013 1:08:19 AM)

1) Correct, you can assign as many cities to a single HQ as you like though usually you will have more than one HQ in need of some production.

2) The only requirement for a city to produce is that you own it. Its production capacity however can be damaged by land attacks, aerial bombardment and artillery bombardment. Note that enemy cities that you capture (not of your own people group) can only produce PPs and limited amounts of oil and ore (i.e. if you are the anglo-saxon people group and capture a Japanese people group city, that city can only produce PPs, ore and oil).

2a) If you are playing a one town start game, when you occupy a neutral unoccupied city it will have zero production. Over a span of a few turns the production increases until it is at 100%. In this type of game you want to find cities of your people group as fast as possible.

3) To produce units that have metal in their construction requires raw. Building rail roads, bridges, ports and airfields require raw.

NOTE: oil and raw exist as a pool resource and in game terms do not have to trace a 250AP supply route to your HQs (unless you are playing with that option using Lancer's Enhanced Resource Mod). As long as you own an oil or raw hex, its resource is available to you.

4) To move and/or fight with armor units, planes and ships require oil. Trains use coal for fuel and for game purposes coal is considered to be available in unlimited quantities.

5) For production to get to its assigned HQ, that HQ must trace a line of supply back to the supply source of not more than 250AP distance. Terrain and weather both have an affect on that AP distance (mud isn't your friend for supply purposes). If your HQ or combat unit is cut off by enemy units or excessive distance, it will wither on the vine and succumb easily to an enemy attack.

6) All units require supply. Note that supply moves automatically if within range. Note also that it is possible to grow you armies so large that most of your production is going to keep you combat units adequately supplied. Everything in ATG is a balancing act. You as Commander in Chief are both a combat commander and a logistics manager. Your success depends on how well you do both.

If you are running short of a resource (ore or oil) you need to use engineers to upgrade your resource hexes. Capturing enemy resource hexes is always a good thing too.

NUKES: there are none is standard ATG.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mantrain

Still, there doesn't seem to be much elaboration that I can find on production. I just realized that Hq's are assigned to a city, duh. How do I assess the capact of an HQ? I mean, I can't assign 10 cities to an HQ? What are the requirements for each city to produce? Ok, we need ore and oil... but how much? Do we need an HQ for each city to produce? How can I evaluate a city production to determine what is its limiting factor (ie, the city that I have that won't produce until I assign an HQ to it, then it pumps out stuff.



[image]local://upfiles/16226/E0E3087ED9C84795B29F78939B5AF269.jpg[/image]



Tac2i -> RE: Some questions on random games (4/13/2013 1:47:05 AM)

Use the supply layer button to check supply path and status. First left click on an HQ then use the supply layer. Right click a hex or unit to see the supply path.

[image]local://upfiles/16226/18B1363313C942868340087BE13B398A.jpg[/image]



mantrain -> RE: Some questions on random games (4/13/2013 8:58:01 PM)

I noticed I am not able to move my air units to a different city. Is this because I need to build an airbase? Presumably there was no airbase where they were built an operating from. Also, how do you get an engineer unit to build an airbase? thanks



Twotribes -> RE: Some questions on random games (4/13/2013 10:15:48 PM)

The list of operations is along the bottom just below the map. Engineers will have a construction button that is not greyed out if they have an construction points available. When you click on it it will list your options and their costs.

Any city ( not a suburb) can house aircraft. When you click on the move button it may be hard to tell what cities are in range they get a darker tint but can be hard to see.



Josh -> RE: Some questions on random games (4/14/2013 9:58:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mantrain

I noticed I am not able to move my air units to a different city. Is this because I need to build an airbase? Presumably there was no airbase where they were built an operating from. Also, how do you get an engineer unit to build an airbase? thanks


Planes each have a different range, improving when they tech up, so that city might be out of range.. or it could be raining there ( rain = no flying)
Engineers gather EP's per turn, engineer points, I think it's 2 per turn or so. So an engineer unit of 40 engineers gathers 80 EP's in two turns, enough to build an airport. Besides they need raw and supply and PP's (political points) too for some improvements.
Oh and when invading a foreign shore you *definitely* want to bring some seabees with you, an invading force without a harbour to receive supplies from, is doomed as it is considered to be out of supply. Put that engineer unit on the shore, wait to two turns to gather the needed 80 EP's, then build harbour, done.



Mook881 -> RE: Some questions on random games (6/12/2013 6:19:41 AM)

hi guys just bought the game and I am loving it! But I do have a question about supply...I have read many of the great guides and responses here on the subject and feel I understand the basic principles of the situation. However, many of my troops are not getting the correct supplies despite producing plenty of supplies and being within the green zones on the supply layer screen. They are not receiving "in" enough supplies...what is causing this problem? Thanks!



Josh -> RE: Some questions on random games (6/12/2013 2:10:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mook881

hi guys just bought the game and I am loving it! But I do have a question about supply...I have read many of the great guides and responses here on the subject and feel I understand the basic principles of the situation. However, many of my troops are not getting the correct supplies despite producing plenty of supplies and being within the green zones on the supply layer screen. They are not receiving "in" enough supplies...what is causing this problem? Thanks!



Probably because you didn't assign those units to a Head Quarter.
Cities and factories need to be assigned to a HQ to deliver their stuff to. (you can see that on the coloured bar on the left of that city/factory)
Units need to be assigned to a HQ to get their supply and HQ bonus. That unit will from then on have the same coloured bar on the leftside of the counter as the HQ unit.
Note that the assign button for Cities/Factories is different from the assign HQ button for an unit.



Tac2i -> RE: Some questions on random games (6/12/2013 2:15:36 PM)

Some other possibilities: are there enemy zones of controls affecting supply distribution? Are there enemy guerrilla units nearby? Are your units depending on supply over the ocean which could be interdicted by naval and air forces? Are your HQs sufficiently staffed?



Mook881 -> RE: Some questions on random games (6/12/2013 3:08:10 PM)

Thanks guys for the replies! I do have my cities linked to HQs and HQs to supreme HQs and finally units to their nearby HQ. I have over 100% staff on each HQ. there are also no oceans on this map and no guerrillas behind my lines. Even troops that are not near enemy lines are not getting their requested supply amount. Basically most units are getting 50-70% "in"
Do HQs need to be on a road to distribute the supplies or need trains/trucks in their formation, even if the supply layer is green? Also I noticed that in the statistics screen I have "range penalties" that are reducing supplies but I am not sure what that means since all my troops are in the green layer of supply.
Thanks again for your help!



Tac2i -> RE: Some questions on random games (6/12/2013 3:34:54 PM)

How much over 100% staff? If your HQs are severely overstaffed, I believe that can cause negative consequences as well. Are your HQs in the green zone of the HQ they are getting supply from? If your subordinate HQs are receiving insufficient supply, they won't have all the supply they need to distribute to the troops.



Josh -> RE: Some questions on random games (6/13/2013 2:43:34 PM)

I don't think overstaffing your HQ can have supply effects, what it does do... I think... is diminish the exp growth of your staff. Say you get 100 Xp points for 100 staff, now if you have double that staff the Xp increase will be less.
Supply flows much like in real life, easy along railroads and highways (ofcourse in this game both are the same)... deep into forests and certainly across hills and mountains supply flows much harder. So you need your most important troops, that's engineers, to build railroads to your frontline troops. Railroads are your lifeline, for supply and new fresh troops and equipment. Everything needs to be connected as well (well not always but you can forget about that for the time being lol), so if your Supreme HQ has enough supply *but* is situated in a city behind mountains there is a big chance your troops never get enough supply. Your frontline HQ's draw their supply from their superior HQ... usually the SHQ, or sometimes a local SHQ. They need to be connected via roads.
Maybe you can post a screenshot of your supply situation?



Mook881 -> RE: Some questions on random games (6/13/2013 5:25:47 PM)

thank you guys for all your help! I started a new game and all of these problems went away following the advice you guys gave. The only thing I can think of was that my train units got separated by mistake from my supreme head quarters in my first game...would that mess up supply?



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