Should I invade all dot bases? (Full Version)

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Jorge_Stanbury -> Should I invade all dot bases? (4/15/2013 2:42:20 PM)

Playing as Japan, it is end of Jan 42

There are dozen of irrelevant and/ or "dot" bases in the SRA that are still in Allied hands; think about all those Philipines, Java sea islands.

Should I devote resources to invade each and every base? I have 2 INF coys doing the level 1 port bases, but the dot-bases can be more challenging because embarking back without a port is slow.
I am worried to leave a "window" to the allies later when they are back on the offensive.


I also noticed some bases are being occupied automatically, does anybody knows the mechanics of it?



rms1pa -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/15/2013 2:47:43 PM)

its not really needed, they should convert.

i have had Wau convert to allied with allied troops at Terapo. even with IJA at Lae and Salamanca.

rms/pa



John Lansford -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/15/2013 4:33:47 PM)

Once you have nearby bases captured, given enough time the remaining bases will convert over to your side. I've found that this happens faster if you build up a base; if you leave it as is, the conversion will still happen but take longer.

Bases separated by about 2 hexes from your nearest base, though, may not convert over at all. I took advantage of that in my last CG and occupied a small island south of Davao that didn't convert over (Taleud?) so there's a range limit.



btd64 -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/15/2013 5:54:12 PM)

I read some where that the range limit is one hex. But only if the other side doesn't have a unit one hex away on the other side of that base. [:D][:D][:D]
Cheers [sm=00000436.gif]



Lokasenna -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/15/2013 6:04:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: General Patton

I read some where that the range limit is one hex. But only if the other side doesn't have a unit one hex away on the other side of that base. [:D][:D][:D]
Cheers [sm=00000436.gif]


Playing the Guadalcanal scenario, I've had the islands immediately north, northwest, and west of Tassafaronga be occupied by the Allies while I've still had troops at Tassafaronga. Lots of troops, even. Once I had the upper hand, they switched back to me...I expect them to keep switching back and forth depending on who has the most land power in the vicinity.


I would recommend taking all of those that can be built to reasonable sizes. You can ignore any that have an SBS of 0-1, IMHO. Others (that can conceivably be built to port, and more important airfield, size 5+) I would take. Not immediately, but as soon as you can.

For taking them, I find paradrops of AF Coys, Nav Gd fragments, or INFp units to be very handy. Use flying boats and you'll be able to pick them right back up the very next turn. You can base some flying boats out of Davao, Balikpapan, and/or Tarakan along with 1-2 SNLF or raiding regiments and take a whole lot of them over the course of a handful of days. Very handy for backfilling.



Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/15/2013 7:02:03 PM)

That is also what I was planning to do for +5 airfield "dot" base, however, my paratroops are, at the moment, very busy with real fighting,

I am also thinking on building a level 1 port in all those I want to defend/ fortify; just to make supply and overall troop movement easier... however, I don't know if that might make things easier for the allies later on.

EDIT: Can you paradrop naval guards or AF coys?? or are you disembarking them and then pick them up with flying boats?



Lokasenna -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/15/2013 8:40:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury
EDIT: Can you paradrop naval guards or AF coys?? or are you disembarking them and then pick them up with flying boats?


I want to say that I've done it with non-paratroops, but it's been about 6 months of real life time since I've done it so I may be misremembering. Any unit that has squads with a load cost of 10 or less (so can get in a flying boat) should be able to go. Worth trying if you have some flying boats around and know you're going to be going in unopposed (a reasonable assumption for most of those dot bases), and it isn't against your house rules.



Mike Solli -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/15/2013 9:57:08 PM)

I take them all. But, since my opponent is the normal, sneaky AFB type, he's dropped off troops on one here or there and started to build them up. Not nice. Sneaky, AFB %#()$&*!



Mike Solli -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/15/2013 9:57:54 PM)

In addition, it's very pleasing to the eye to see all that red on the strategic map. [:D]



nashvillen -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/15/2013 10:08:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

In addition, it's very pleasing to the eye to see all that red on the strategic map. [:D]

+1



Lokasenna -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/15/2013 10:08:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

In addition, it's very pleasing to the eye to see all that red on the strategic map. [:D]


That's really the only reason I do it. I can't stand to see green dots in the sea of red.



Alfred -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/15/2013 11:39:58 PM)

For the mechanics of the rowboat corps, read this thread.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3180077&mpage=1&key=rowboat�

Alfred



Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/16/2013 12:18:25 AM)

Thanks Alfred!

and for the lazy:

"Expanding further on treespider's answer. Treespider is commenting on the actions which are often described here as the "rowboat corps".

Bases do not automatically flip over from one side to the other side. It is possible therefore to have an Allied owned base completely surrounded by Japanese bases. That state of affairs will only change if the Japanese player organises an invasion ground force to enter and successfully attack and capture the base after achieving 2:1 odds in adjusted assault value. The one exception is when the "rowboat corps" becomes involved. The conditions for that development to occur are:

1. The enemy base has no enemy garrison present.

2. The enemy base is adjacent to and shares contingous land borders with your own bases.

3. Your own adjacent bases must have a friendly garrison present. Merely owning ungarrisoned friendly owned adjacent bases will not suffice to effect the automatic ownership flip over.

Alfred "



Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/16/2013 12:23:20 AM)

and CV2 reply:

This is not entirely true.

First off, you do NOT have to be adjacent. Bases within 2 hexes are subject to this flipping.

Secondly, they do NOT have to be land hexes. And a base that is 2 hexes away can flip even though a base 1 hex away hasnt.

The friendly base does indeed have to have troops present, but it can NOT be a dot hex. It must actually have a base in the hex. The more AV and the more supply you have in the hex seems to increase its chances of flipping a base.


I can say I have witness bases that are 2 hexes away changing sides.



Alfred -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/16/2013 12:33:02 AM)

There was no contradiction. Look up the meaning of the words adjacent and contiguous.

Bases 2 hexes away can flip over but they won't if there is a third base between the two. For then the flipped over base would not have been adjacent to the enemy.[;)]

Too many around here don't pay close attention to what I say, instead they are quick to create a straw man argument.

Alfred



Insano -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/16/2013 1:25:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

There was no contradiction. Look up the meaning of the words adjacent and contiguous.

Bases 2 hexes away can flip over but they won't if there is a third base between the two. For then the flipped over base would not have been adjacent to the enemy.[;)]

Too many around here don't pay close attention to what I say, instead they are quick to create a straw man argument.

Alfred


No


[image]local://upfiles/32328/7F81FEAD9E4C4CAA8E6B6997B58CA51C.jpg[/image]



Lokasenna -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/16/2013 1:44:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Insano


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

There was no contradiction. Look up the meaning of the words adjacent and contiguous.

Bases 2 hexes away can flip over but they won't if there is a third base between the two. For then the flipped over base would not have been adjacent to the enemy.[;)]

Too many around here don't pay close attention to what I say, instead they are quick to create a straw man argument.

Alfred


No


[image]local://upfiles/32328/7F81FEAD9E4C4CAA8E6B6997B58CA51C.jpg[/image]


I've seen this happen also.



Alfred -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/16/2013 1:54:28 AM)

A dot base, not on a contiguous land mass. Isolated dot bases are more complicated.

Alfred



Micah Goodman -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/22/2013 1:34:53 AM)

Aside from esthetic reasons do dot bases have a negative reason for not capturing.



Justus2 -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/22/2013 2:45:23 AM)

The primary risk (IMHO) is that the owning player could fly in (air transport) a force and occupy it fairly easily (and using PBYs or equivalent, at long ranges), whereas once it is 'flipped' it requires and amphib assault or use of paratroops. I believe they also still give intel/Detection, even if unoccupied.



Alfred -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/22/2013 2:47:31 AM)

1. They prevent enemy supply going through the hex.

2. Potentially provide an easier ingress path for reinsertion of enemy forces into the theatre.

Alfred



zuluhour -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/22/2013 9:16:15 PM)

2. Potentially provide an easier ingress path for reinsertion of enemy forces into the theatre.

[sm=innocent0009.gif]



John Lansford -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/24/2013 4:32:19 PM)

I only invade dot bases that have non-zero port or airbase capabilities. The others take so long to develop it's not worth the effort even if they are undefended. On larger islands such as New Guinea, though, if I can take an undefended dot base like Sansapoor I'll do it in a heartbeat, since I can build up that base and interdict all the enemy occupied bases around it with little effort.



Icedawg -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/26/2013 2:20:52 AM)

I like to take the dot bases just to provide more flexibility for my TF retirement paths. The more bases you own, the more options you have for "home port" selection. With more ports to choose from, you can tweak your retirement paths to a greater degree.

The flip side of this is that your opponent has fewer "home ports" to choose from and hence, fewer retirement paths for his TFs. Less flexibility for your opponent is a good thing.

In most cases, "home port" isn't going to matter much either way, but there very well can be cases when you really want your TFs to go in a particular direction to a particular port (and cases when your opponent really wants his TFs to go in a particular direction to a particular port - which you now have denied).

Also, those dot bases can be convenient places for your float planes to operate out of. They can make nice temporary sites to base your ASW float planes to cover your big cargo TFs; and they can hop from one dot base to another virtually the entire length of the cargo TF's path to provide continuous ASW cover.

These aren't exactly the most crucial elements of the game, but they can provide a slight advantage in certain situations. And, playing as the Japanese, you can use every advantage you can get.



Cap Mandrake -> RE: Should I invade all dot bases? (4/27/2013 5:58:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

2. Potentially provide an easier ingress path for reinsertion of enemy forces into the theatre.

[sm=innocent0009.gif]



Yes, quite. I strongly recommend JFB not occupy dot bases especially in the Moluccas, Sulawese or the Phirripines. . [:)]



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