Fortification outside a base (Full Version)

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Micke II -> Fortification outside a base (4/24/2013 7:18:39 PM)

By heading some AAR (Greyjoy for example) I have seen that it's possible to build fortifications in a jungle hex. I have seen no command or button to active the construction. What is the way to proceed ?



RogerJNeilson -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/24/2013 7:26:08 PM)

Sit them in a hex and provided they have supply and some engineers in their TOE they automatically 'dig in'. You don't need to do anything. They do need to be in combat mode AFAIK.

Roger



jmalter -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/24/2013 7:33:07 PM)

LCUs in non-base or in enemy-owned base hexes automatically try to 'dig in'. Apparently they don't even need inherent engrs (or maybe another unit's engrs give an assist), but I think they do need to be in Combat mode. Look at the 'Ground Units' screen & tag the Show Soft text - under the Forts column, you might see a "#p" value, the p indicates a non-base fort level.



Micke II -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/24/2013 7:56:45 PM)

Thank you, both of you, for your quick answer. What is the time required to reach a level 1,2.... ?
I suppose also that the building units must have a reasonable amount of supply.



Canoerebel -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/24/2013 8:11:53 PM)

I think the unit does have to have engineers. I have seen strong infantry units without engineers sit in hexes for six months and never build a fort.



Canoerebel -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/24/2013 8:14:29 PM)

The time needed to fortify varies with the number of engineers in the unit. Decent infantry units with a modest number of engineers will usually have forts one with a few days; forts two might take a couple of weeks; fort three might take a month or more; forts four probably takes three months or more.

I haven't tested this yet, but it's possible (and would be reasonable) that it's easier to build forts in wooded or rough terrain rather than in open terrain. I'll try to give this more attention going forward to see if that's true. (I haven't had much chance to observe, because in early 1942 it's usually a bad idea for the Allies - especially the Chinese - to sit out in the open!)



dcpollay -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/24/2013 10:43:03 PM)

I've seen listed in the unit name section of the LCU screen, something like, "XXXX unit with 3 forts." Is that related?

And if this unit is in a base hex, are these fort levels added to the base forts for defense purposes?



Capt Hornblower -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/25/2013 3:45:42 AM)

Colonel Mustard:

The 3 forts listed on the LCU screen are in all likelihood a reflection of the fortification level of the base at which the unit is located. Check the base screen for its fortification level. The answer to your question is no, there's no cumulative effect. A land unit at a base takes the base's fortification level.



Alfred -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/25/2013 5:15:30 AM)

Read this thread.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2763265&mpage=1&key=forts%2C101�

It has several posts from me (and others on clarifications) plus my fortification 101.

Alfred



guctony -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/25/2013 5:18:28 AM)

Then the other important question is the attacking sides engineers lower the defenders fort level in attacks on open hexes



Alfred -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/25/2013 5:21:21 AM)

The link explains that you do not get partial fortification level reduction. One of the benefits of fighting outside in the field.

Alfred



obvert -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/25/2013 7:28:09 AM)

Alfred's linked thread answers most questions. I have one more that I've been wondering about for some time. When a unit is split into it's component parts, say a division in three regimental units, and they arrive separately to a hex, they begin to build independently. I have one division in those three unit parts that all have different fort levels in one hex. I want to combine them to get the advantage in combat a full division allows, but one of the units has level 4 forts, one has level 2 forts, and the last to arrive has just built up to level one forts.

When I recombine the units what fort level will the combined full division have in that hex?

I am wary of doing this as the units with higher fort levels are likely better off keeping those than recombining and going to say level 1 forts, if that is how it would work. Any ideas or experience on this one?

Also, as stated in the linked thread, units with no engineers will build forts, but more slowly. It's likely they are depending on engineers from another unit, but I've not tried them alone so I can't say for sure.

One last thing. I've had full divisions in a hex for up to six months and they only built to level 2 forts. They had supply and plentiful engineers (in one case it was 4 IDs in one hex with an HQ, and the HQ continued to build up to level 3 forts). My brigades in another hex (with more intermittent supply as well) have built over the same timeframe and got to level 5 forts. The divisions stayed at level 2. Has anyone else noticed this before?



Saros -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/25/2013 9:33:42 AM)

I have not seen IJA divisions build more than two forts. I've had some holding lines in China for 6 months in the same hex and they are still at 2. Rgt seem to be able to build to 4.



obvert -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/25/2013 10:29:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Saros

I have not seen IJA divisions build more than two forts. I've had some holding lines in China for 6 months in the same hex and they are still at 2. Rgt seem to be able to build to 4.


Is your regiment solo and is it one with engineers or without?




castor troy -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/25/2013 12:32:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I think the unit does have to have engineers. I have seen strong infantry units without engineers sit in hexes for six months and never build a fort.



if there are units in the hex that got engineers, also those that don't have eng will build forts though.



obvert -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/26/2013 1:16:13 PM)

I just answered one of my questions, as my split division was able to combine since the threat posed by other units in the hex retreated.

The three division parts had forts 4, forts 3 and forts 1. After re-combination they ended up with forts 2.

This may also support my other theory/question that IJA division will not build forts over level 2 in the field.



Miller -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/26/2013 8:42:42 PM)

I have never seen any Jap unit, weather it be a Div, Rgt or whatever build 4 forts in a non base hex. Usually gets up to 2 fairly soon and 3 after a few months.



Canoerebel -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/26/2013 10:45:41 PM)

(Miller was drawn to this thread because he saw the title an thought it read: Fornication Outside a Base.)



Cribtop -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/26/2013 11:06:40 PM)

Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "All your base are belong to us."



obvert -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/26/2013 11:30:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

I have never seen any Jap unit, weather it be a Div, Rgt or whatever build 4 forts in a non base hex. Usually gets up to 2 fairly soon and 3 after a few months.


But have you ever had a division at forts 3 in a non-base hex?



Miller -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/26/2013 11:49:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

I have never seen any Jap unit, weather it be a Div, Rgt or whatever build 4 forts in a non base hex. Usually gets up to 2 fairly soon and 3 after a few months.


But have you ever had a division at forts 3 in a non-base hex?


Yes.



Cribtop -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/27/2013 5:52:54 AM)

I've seen IJA units get to forts 4 in a non-base hex. Never more than 4 however.



Sardaukar -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/27/2013 11:29:21 AM)

I have seen units dig in to Fort Level 5 even.



1EyedJacks -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/27/2013 4:36:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Read this thread.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2763265&mpage=1&key=forts%2C101�

It has several posts from me (and others on clarifications) plus my fortification 101.

Alfred


Ya know - I kinda like that Alfred guy.



geofflambert -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/28/2013 5:49:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

(Miller was drawn to this thread because he saw the title an thought it read: Fornication Outside a Base.)

Well, if you're going to fornicate, it better be outside a base, otherwise you might get court martialled. But that brings up a question, what would a fornication level 1 be, versus a 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9? Furthermore, is it possible to achieve a fornication level 10? Has anyone attempted that?



obvert -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/28/2013 6:13:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
But have you ever had a division at forts 3 in a non-base hex?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Yes.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

I've seen IJA units get to forts 4 in a non-base hex. Never more than 4 however.


I've had a brigade at forts 5, but as I mentioned above divisions in place for 6 months with supply only got to 2 and stayed there. Were there any special conditions, Miller, or other factors that led to an IJA division getting to forts 3?



Alfred -> RE: Fortification outside a base (4/28/2013 4:33:32 PM)

I once did notice a division of mine, which had been in the same spot for 18 months, had achieved field fortifications of level 6. But that is quite rare.

1. You should not expect to ever be able to go above level 6 in field fortifications.

2. Infantry/armour units have limited engineering assets embedded with the unit. Most engineering resources are found in dedicated engineering units with zero, or nominal assault value. It would be rare for players to send those units out to the countryside to fortify their zero/nominal AV, preferring instead to deploy them much more effectively in building up base infrastructure or base fortification levels which are available to all the units located at the base.

Just as it is relatively quick to build up a base's fortification levels up to level 2, the same applies to infantry/armour although you should expect that it will take longer to do so in the field because of the reduced number of available engineers in the unit. To see higher levels you are going to need to keep the unit stationary for a lot longer than most players will allow, and be in a good supply position.

Alfred



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