RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (Full Version)

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Bingeling -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/17/2013 6:50:20 PM)

There have been changes to the economy, with some new drains added. Lots of structures have maintenance now, for instance.

From what I have seen, though, "mature" empires still usually got money. And trade values get inflated. There is a lot to test, though, and I have never ran a game for very long in beta, but I have had lots of automated ones running overnight to find crashes and odd issues.

If you up the difficulty enough, I doubt excessive amounts of money is an issue anytime real soon, though.



shinobu -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/17/2013 7:17:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spacecadet

That's all I've got for now on pictures and a quickie preview.

I'll add some more notes as I remember them, here are a couple more:

- Mines and Bases can now Retrofit
- You'll see Mines and Bases storing a few extra resources, this is to help them in Retrofit events
- You can "Gift" items to other Empires/Pirates (ships, Mines, maybe even Planets)
- AI Empires are now much better at building out Research capacity
- Early game + Tractor Beams + Rail Guns = Death . . . watch out
- Gravity Weapon + no Defense against it = ouch
- Pirate Raids . . . think of the Moon raid in Return of the Jedi




Yes- yes- yes! Fantastic! Thanks for the info Spacecadet...



scotten_usa -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/17/2013 7:31:43 PM)

Destroyed Pirates do not respawn? Awesome! [&o]



Shark7 -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/17/2013 7:50:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ScottenChi

Destroyed Pirates do not respawn? Awesome! [&o]


It is a choice, so those of us that enjoy endless pirate raids can have them, while those that don't enjoy pirates so much can actually rid themselves of them.

Pirates are a real challenge in Shadows.



shinobu -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/17/2013 8:52:32 PM)

Can Pirates create troops? Wouldn't you need a population (i.e.- planet) to be able to do that? Just wondering...



Bingeling -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/17/2013 8:55:44 PM)

Pirates can own colonies, and have defending troops, so I guess they can do all kinds of stuff with them.
What I have noticed is that pirate colonies don't create a zone of control.

They don't start with colonies, though, nor am I sure what they need to do for full control.



jpwrunyan -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/18/2013 12:42:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spacecadet
- Mines and Bases can now Retrofit


In what way do they retrofit? It's the colony itself that retrofitted space stations and orbitals (my understanding). So with what does the base retrofit? Does it require a constructor ship to come and do the actual work? Does it require freighters to come with the supplies needed (or components)? I hope so. Because just retrofitting "magically" would be lame.



jpwrunyan -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/18/2013 12:47:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: shinobu

Can Pirates create troops? Wouldn't you need a population (i.e.- planet) to be able to do that? Just wondering...


My understanding is that there are now boarding parties that "spawn" over time in a component called "pods" which pirates can make because it just requires a space station that can make ships.

Real troops can only be made on a planet.

However, when pirates raid a planet, it is the boarding party troops who fight against the ground troops. Likewise, I *heard* (ahem, hearsay) that boarding parties are not effective against troop transports when raiding a ship because the ship is full of, well, space marines.

I have not played shadows. I have only watched Das' videos. So I invite corrections if I am wrong.



Spacecadet -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/18/2013 2:14:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jpwrunyan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spacecadet
- Mines and Bases can now Retrofit


In what way do they retrofit? It's the colony itself that retrofitted space stations and orbitals (my understanding). So with what does the base retrofit? Does it require a constructor ship to come and do the actual work? Does it require freighters to come with the supplies needed (or components)? I hope so. Because just retrofitting "magically" would be lame.



The line after "Mines and Bases can now Retrofit", "You'll see Mines and Bases storing a few extra resources, this is to help them in Retrofit events"

Depending on your Policy and design settings, the Mines/Bases will Retrofit when you complete research on a more advanced Tech that applies to them.

Once you build a Mine/Base, your Freighters will move a set amount of resources to each Mine/Base in order to be prepared for a Retrofit.

You'll find that your Freighters are much more active in Shadows, and the supply line is much improved.
I think there were actually more issue with the supply system than anyone knew, but it didn't really show up until the enhancements from Shadows [;)]

We're still testing/tweaking, and will be until well after the release - we (Testers) want this to be as good as you do [:)]




Spacecadet -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/18/2013 2:35:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jpwrunyan


quote:

ORIGINAL: shinobu

Can Pirates create troops? Wouldn't you need a population (i.e.- planet) to be able to do that? Just wondering...


My understanding is that there are now boarding parties that "spawn" over time in a component called "pods" which pirates can make because it just requires a space station that can make ships.

Real troops can only be made on a planet.

However, when pirates raid a planet, it is the boarding party troops who fight against the ground troops. Likewise, I *heard* (ahem, hearsay) that boarding parties are not effective against troop transports when raiding a ship because the ship is full of, well, space marines.

I have not played shadows. I have only watched Das' videos. So I invite corrections if I am wrong.


Not having played as Pirates myself, but having been on the receiving end, Pirate Raiders have a fair chance of succeeding even when they are out numbered (thus my reference to the Moon raid in Return of the Jedi).

As for Assault Pods, I think anyone can build/equip them once the research is complete (and there are multiple levels for this).
This is where you'll see my earlier reference to Boarding Defense equaling Habitat + Assault Pods.

Very early in the testing process, I lost a planet to a Pirate faction, which as you can imagine, totally shocked me.
I'm not sure where this stands now, as once burned, I've become much more defensive minded [:D]


This reminds of another piece of advice I should give to first time players.
I've played a lot of DW over the years (several dozen games just in Shadows testing), and for Shadows, playing in the Age of Shadows I've definitely had to change my play style.

I used to expand/Colonize like crazy.
I'm not saying you can't still do that, I just don't advise it with Pirates in the equation.

Maybe I got a little jaded, because initially the Pirates were just absolutely brutal (think multiple Shakturi Empires) . . . or course it didn't help that I was playing with some "minimized" settings which I've mentioned earlier on.
Quick expansion may still work to a degree, but with Pirates competing for the very thing you are (they're basically additional Empires without restraint), you may just find yourself losing planets to those Empires.


Of the expansions, Shakturi is my favorite, and Shadows is definitely a close second.




Tanaka -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/18/2013 3:51:32 AM)

Oh thank god they finally fixed this!!! [&o]
quote:


Bonus

Speaking of the Galaxy and locations, remember how setting Empires to "Distant" would pretty much cluster them all together down in one area of the Galaxy?

Well, that's pretty much not the case in Shadows.
In Shadows you'll see Empires fairly well distributed throughout the Galaxy.
Oh, there'll be a few cases here and there where a couple of Empires are close together, but for the most part you'll see them well spread out.












feygan -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/18/2013 8:17:58 AM)

So far all seems good just wondering how bad things are with key resources? I recall in vanilla DW there were times where you just simply did not have a much needed resource and so couldn't build certain things. Does this happen very often from the start in Shadows? Are there many games where you simply have to give up due to an impossible situation of stunted growth?



Bingeling -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/18/2013 9:44:00 AM)

On default galaxies, resources are not too hard to find.

If you lower the star density, you are more prone to random problems, of course.



Mansen -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/18/2013 9:49:49 AM)

Does the universe generator make any attempt to place (strategic) resources in a somewhat balanced manner, similar to games like Civilization? :)



Buio -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/18/2013 12:14:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mansen
Does the universe generator make any attempt to place (strategic) resources in a somewhat balanced manner, similar to games like Civilization? :)


They are all put in the left bottom corner.

Seriously, a balanced but not boring distribution is nice. There should be some resources you have to hunt or trade for. I remember a Civ V game where I didn't have any iron close early. Things like that give the game a more exciting feel in my opinion, especially when you manage to hard earned trade or conquer the resource.



ASHBERY76 -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/18/2013 1:43:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

Oh thank god they finally fixed this!!! [&o]
quote:


[


But Bingeling's Shadows AAR.[:D]

[image]http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h426/Bingeling/Ikurro/part3/map_zps4550ca6a.jpg[/image]



ASHBERY76 -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/18/2013 1:43:53 PM)



Woops delete this..





Mansen -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/18/2013 1:56:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Buio

They are all put in the left bottom corner.


That's not even funny - I've played Civ 4 games that were like these. [:D]



Plant -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/18/2013 3:44:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Later game economy.Is it still the zillion credits in the bank with nothing to spend it on bloat.


Sounds like an acute symptom of not spending your money on production and units.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Buio
They are all put in the left bottom corner.

Haha. But seriously, in Spiral Galaxies, I always seem to find the crucial carbon fibre centered in the core of the galaxy.



Spacecadet -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/18/2013 7:24:25 PM)

FYI, I added a few comments on a thread in The War Room with a few more bits about Shadows.

I'm going to post two pictures I missed from yesterday, here's the first:


[image]local://upfiles/34818/A11A53D0FC8B499AAFED6C1E9C49AD73.jpg[/image]


The Shadow notes for this section:

Size - PreWarp has been added
TechLevel - PreWarp has been added




Spacecadet -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/18/2013 7:28:44 PM)

Here's a look at the Victory Conditions screen:


[image]local://upfiles/34818/D5E3DE01F9EA409D91983E257B9E9BF9.jpg[/image]



Of note here:

[]Enable Shadows story events




fierceking -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/18/2013 8:40:17 PM)

Is there any new info on tech trading since I assume tech is going to play a big part in the early game. In Legends, it was so easy to trade techs that made one's empire very powerful very quickly.



Bingeling -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/18/2013 8:57:32 PM)

I think it has been tweaked. I never saw a problem with tech trading though. This is a single player game, and tech trading is optional :)

At least some other favorites have seen tweaks, including zero tax.



Kayoz -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/18/2013 9:29:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling
At least some other favorites have seen tweaks, including zero tax.

How has it been tweaked?



Spacecadet -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/18/2013 9:39:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fierceking

Is there any new info on tech trading since I assume tech is going to play a big part in the early game. In Legends, it was so easy to trade techs that made one's empire very powerful very quickly.


I think this really depends on your Research speed.

The slower the Research setting, the more expensive Tech is to trade.

I will say that it is more difficult to trade for Racial Techs though [;)]




Spacecadet -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/18/2013 9:42:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling
At least some other favorites have seen tweaks, including zero tax.

How has it been tweaked?


Zero Tax rate now no longer causes your population to grow as fast as it used to.
It still helps, but it's not like it was before.

Migration rates have been tweaked as well, so you may want to keep an eye on that as you're learning all the new stuff.




feygan -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/18/2013 10:23:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spacecadet

Here's a look at the Victory Conditions screen:


[image]local://upfiles/34818/D5E3DE01F9EA409D91983E257B9E9BF9.jpg[/image]



Of note here:

[]Enable Shadows story events




Just wondering how the original and ROTS story events fit in with shadows? If the timeline is set in a postwar period before great empires, do we take our empires up from prewarp all through the first two story lines as in one massive story arc?



Erik Rutins -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/18/2013 10:32:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: feygan
Just wondering how the original and ROTS story events fit in with shadows? If the timeline is set in a postwar period before great empires, do we take our empires up from prewarp all through the first two story lines as in one massive story arc?


Yes, that's exactly what you can do. [8D]



Kayoz -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/18/2013 11:34:12 PM)

A few questions:

Tractor beams:
    1. Do tractor beams interfere with hyperspace? Or do you still need a warp disruptor field to stop it?
    2. Do tractor beams apply vector force? If, for example, your ship is in front of the other ship, will you be increasing it's speed?
    2a. Do ship settings apply, such that the presence of tractor beams in a combat will affect their ability to determine the range of the engagement? What happens if both ships have tractor beams, but different preferred engagement ranges - say, one is armed with blasters and the other with missiles - what happens here?
    2b. Does size/thrust of the ships apply? If a tiny escort ship uses a tractor beam on a ship the size of a world destroyer, is it similar to a flea trying to stop a Clydesdale?

*edit*
    3. Are tractor beams "pull" only, or "push/pull"?
    4. Do tractors apply to "wildlife"?


Boarding actions:
    1. What influences the number of defending boarding parties? Is it purely based on the number of habitation modules?
    2. Do any unused boarding pods of the defender contribute to the defender's force?
    3. Do ships with troops loaded benefit from the troops they are carrying?



Bingeling -> RE: DW : Shadows - notes as an Empire in the Age of Shadows (5/19/2013 1:22:42 AM)

Not sure about all, but.

Tractors:

1: They tend to die before hyperspacing.
2: Dunno.
2a: Dunno.
2b: Size matters.

3: Yes, they can both push and pull according to some info.
4: Not sure, but it should do.

Boarding:

1: Hab modules and troops as far as I know.
2: I think so. There is a bar above ships that decrease when they launch pods.
3: See 1: Yes (supposedly).




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