Fleet Formation (Full Version)

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PWOFalcon -> Fleet Formation (5/23/2013 7:28:30 AM)

[:)]Hello, first post (and felt this was the best forum to post this, but sorry if I am wrong) and seeing that Shadow is coming out, decided to see what people think how I organize my fleets.

My theme is fast attack ships and outnumbering my enemy.

I have Fleets in my Navy. They are usually 18 to 26 ships within the fleet. Their purpose is to be the muscle, invading enemy lands and engaging large enemy fleets. They also protect high important regions.

Then I have Battlegroups. They are usually between 8 to 12 ships in them. I usually have them to engage smaller fleets, engage pirates, defend less important regions and/or help my main fleets if needed.

Then I have Marine Assault Groups, what they do is carry my Army to planets for mass invasions. Usually ending up between 18 to 24 ships, depending on the map and stuff.

Rarely I create defense fleets, solo goal is to protect key systems that I don't want other more combat fleets guarding (like my Capital system and remote systems).

Note: I do not include escort ships in any of these fleet to date, if I make them I use them on auto and let them do whatever. However I came up with the idea in turning them into more logistic ships, heavy armored and shielded. And put a lot of fleet wide support components on them like long range, Fleet countermeasure, etc.

Questions:
- What do you think of how I organize my Navy, any tips?
- I had a idea of having two Destroyer class ships (one for combat and one for troops/support), I found it a pain to maintain, should I continue it in Shadow?
- Do you like my new Escort ship turned into a fleet logistic ship?
- Any changes or tips on your guys end?

Just extra info, with my ships, I usually follow the Halo UNSC theme on their ships. More Rail gun, Missiles, Armored (don't worry, I have shields XD), I add torpedo's.



Bingeling -> RE: Fleet Formation (5/23/2013 9:37:41 AM)

Be prepared to change a bit in Shadows. In the early game, system defense is key.

I usually prefer to stay with the AI designs, or with slight modifications of them. Doing that I end up with preferring the big guns due to their range. I find destroyers and smaller too short range for proper fleet work.

If you want two destroyer designs, and don't build escorts, there is really a rather obvious solution...



PWOFalcon -> RE: Fleet Formation (5/23/2013 9:44:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

I find destroyers and smaller too short range for proper fleet work.



So your saying in Shadow, Destroyers, Frigates and Escorts will be pointless in the long run? Or as main fighting warships?



Bingeling -> RE: Fleet Formation (5/23/2013 9:51:56 AM)

Mainly as main warships, but that is not new in shadows.

Some speedy raiders can be nice, but in a battle fleet, any smaller ship becomes a drag on fleet performance, the ship that is always "out of fuel" and slows things down. If massive fighting breaks out in an enemy system, the small guys tend to shoot themselves out of fuel really quick.

If you design your own ships, that is of course fixable.

The AI ship templates have changed quite a lot in shadows. If having AI designs, pay attention to what the destroyers and frigates actually are. Some races may have pure blaster frigates, and pure missile destroyers.



PWOFalcon -> RE: Fleet Formation (5/23/2013 9:57:52 AM)

Thank you for that. I am already rethinking how to form my Navy. I like to design my own warships so I think I can fix that. IN the past, I just gave all my ships 10 fuel (mostly not to have to deal with refueling all the time). I might have to stop being lazy on that part. Thank you for the intel Bingeling. [:)]



Bingeling -> RE: Fleet Formation (5/23/2013 1:37:28 PM)

I prefer to keep somewhat even with the AI, and keeping at their level in ship design is helping that a bit.

Tweaking fuel capacity a lot is a way to ignore some of the more interesting issues in the game. In my opinion, of course. Doing military operations far away from home, should have logistic challenges. A side effect of those is of course that I ban destroyers and smaller from my main fleets due to their smaller fuel capacity. Some may enjoy the "small swarm" approach, and could maybe tweak them to cruiser range levels.

The range is now shown around the energy part of the design, it is easier to match them. If shooting is involved, though, the range is no longer true, as battles can burn a lot of fuel.



lgeorge53 -> RE: Fleet Formation (5/23/2013 2:18:41 PM)

Hello All,

I have only had DW for about a week, so, there is a huge amount I don't know yet. Regarding ships, at what stage are you able to build Capital Ships. I have yet to reach this milestone in any of my games. Granted Research is mostly automated with a preference towards Construction.

Cheers



Bingeling -> RE: Fleet Formation (5/23/2013 2:25:57 PM)

There is no hard rule for capitals, you can make them tiny if you want to. The AI designer, however, think they should be the "biggest, baddest".

What makes things a bit hard to predict is that the AI fit designs to size (to a degree). It got a preferred component set, but may drop some weapons, armor... to fit to size. I would expect you get capitals at the step above 500 size (is it 650?). If you open the research screen (and just say "yes, do please continue automation"), you can peek at the lowest part of the energy and construction tab (middle). The bottom is construction (yellow-ish), and you can see the various sizes as the tech advances. I figure the needed one is "component prefabrication", but I have not yet reached this in my current game, so I am not sure.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Fleet Formation (5/23/2013 3:58:15 PM)

Hi lgeorge53,

For the default designs, about Size 600 is required for Capital Ships.

Regards,

- Erik



Osito -> RE: Fleet Formation (5/24/2013 2:38:52 PM)

I like to role play design size, so at game start I only allow myself to build escorts, and then I include the rest gradually as my construction size decreases. I won't allow myself to make a ship smaller than the construction size at which I roleplayed its introduction. Also, the minimum size for the next class limits the maximum size for the lower class.

At present I'm working with:
Escort - 180-230
Frigate - 300
Destoyer - 400-500
Cruiser - 650
Capital - 800-1500

Needless to say, I delete all the premade state ship designs as soon as I start playing a new game.

One other thing I'm considering (but haven't tried yet) is to create defense fleets with accelerated hyperdrives, like the Kaldos. Might be useful early on in the game??



Bingeling -> RE: Fleet Formation (5/24/2013 2:47:26 PM)

I love the kaldos drives. I rarely find myself in a drag race, but jumping short distances faster is helpful quite often.

Your ships takes damage and needs to get into safety? Kaldos
Your defenders drifted off at the wrong end of the system, and the mine is under attack? Kaldos
You want your fleet to cover a few nearby systems? Kaldos

For the main fighting fleets, the "escape" vs "speed" is a trade off, for defensive fleets covering short distances it is not even a fair competition.

I should test the distance limit one day. Put fast jumper and fast traveller side by side, and check at what distance the speedy guy overtakes the fast jumping one. It should be a significant part of a sector, I would guess.



Plant -> RE: Fleet Formation (5/30/2013 2:49:37 PM)

Personally I prefer the high speed hyperdrives.
Don't care much for shorter jump times, since you mostly spend more time moving than jump initiation, unless jumping within system.
I've judged the difference to be between quarter and fifth of a sector, when the high speed takes over the faster jump.

Edit: I tested it again and it is about a 3rd of a sector.



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