Empire in Age of Shadows Research Trick (~1400k at game start) (Full Version)

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peddroelm -> Empire in Age of Shadows Research Trick (~1400k at game start) (5/26/2013 8:47:49 AM)

[image]http://s21.postimg.org/id20kr4o7/early_research_trick.jpg[/image]

Nearly 1400k Actual Energy Research output at the start of the game !!! This would go a long way towards getting the gerrax hyperdrive in a timely fashion ..

Simple concept is to turn most of your TERP (total empire research potential) into Actual Energy Research output (ignoring weapon and high energy for a while)..

Reasons to do so are the absolute necessity of warp drive tech early to "unlock" the game/space. Second reason is to apply your Scientist/location bonus to your entire TERP not only to a fraction of it because you will get more total actual research output this way (downside it mostly be restricted to one of the three research branches)

Break down of the 1386k Actual Energy research number:

455 * (520 / (520 + 12 + 12)) * 1.5 * 1.4 * (1+ 0 + 0.52) = 1388.28529412
pretty sure the genius (20% research) Scientist trait is bugged and if it were working final number should have been 1388.28529412 *1.2 = 1665.94235294


455 TERP (total empire research potential - grows empire with population/colony culture; asymptotic growth (capped); pretty much a constant at the start of a new game)

520+12+12 = 544 Total Empire lab space (you get 12k for each branch by default)
because 544 > 455 it means I have more labs than I can use (will not waste research output will waste a bit of maintenance on empty labs but I'm covered for a while as TERP grows)...
520 is from 26 energy research labs (26*20)..

If I wanted to be precise one energy station with 22 energy labs would have been enough in this case
((455 - 12 - 12) / 20 = 21.55) to minimize waste ...
455 * (440 / (440 + 12 + 12)) * 1.5 * 1.4 * 1.52 = 1377.23793103

*1.5 * 1.4 Empire wide research bonuses (they add) they multiply
50% from Technocracy government
40% from racial bonus Quameno
/// 20% genius scientist (don't know if it stacks from multiple geniuses) this one doesn't seem to apply at all - maybe it affects TERP ?

(1 + 0 + 0.52) max of particular field bonus
0 is where bonus from location would add
0.52 is bonus from two scientist (44% to energy and one with 15% to energy ).. Apparently there are diminishing returns to stacking multiple scientists on the same location (44+15 > 52)..

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This outrageous high number is of course an nearly extreme case
( -technocracy
-Quameno race
-genius trait
- two scientists with good energy research bonuses
- don't think you can get +energy research location in your home system
)


Without the bonuses stacking you can still channel all your TERP into Actual Energy Research Output but the results would be of course much less spectacular ..

455 * (440 / (440 + 12 + 12)) * 1 * 1 = 431.465517241 which is respectable for early game ...

(22 energy labs stacking in one energy research base with no bonuses) ...

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Here is what would happen if I were to scrap one of my energy research bases (13 labs) and replace it with 13 hi-tech research labs (split TERP energy and hi-tech 50%)

[image]http://s21.postimg.org/r2uyr8dpj/early_research_trick2.jpg[/image]

455 * (12 / (12 + 260 + 260)) * 1.5 * 1.4 = 21.5526315789 weapons
455 * (260 / (12 + 260 + 260)) * 1.5 * 1.4 * 1.52 = 709.8 energy
455 * (260 / (12 + 260 + 260)) * 1.5 * 1.4 = 466.973684211 hi-tech

Note how total empire research output went down by (21 + 1386 + 21) - (22 + 708 + 467) = 231 because the 52% scientist boost now only applies for wrongfully 50% of the entire TERP...


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If I were to split it three equal ways

(460 / 20) / 3 = 7.66666666667 (8 labs each)

455 * ((8 * 20) / ((8 * 20) + (8 * 20) + (8 * 20))) * 1.5 * 1.4 = 318.5 // weapons
455 * ((8 * 20) / ((8 * 20) + (8 * 20) + (8 * 20))) * 1.5 * 1.4 * 1.52 = 484.12 //energy
455 * ((8 * 20) / ((8 * 20) + (8 * 20) + (8 * 20))) * 1.5 * 1.4 = 318.5 // hi-tech

Total empire research output is even less because now the 52% scientist bonus applies to only 33.33% of the entire TERP

(21 + 1386 + 21) - (318.5 + 484.12 + 318.5) = 306.88




BigWolfChris -> RE: Empire in Age of Shadows Research Trick (~1400k at game start) (5/26/2013 11:40:10 PM)

Dare I say this, but if you really want to have hyperdrive so soon, would it not make more sense to play the classic age?

Beyond that though, good job on the math, and I really hope eventually it'll be patched so you can't have such an insane amount of research so early ;) lol



peddroelm -> RE: Empire in Age of Shadows Research Trick (~1400k at game start) (5/27/2013 4:07:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigWolf

Dare I say this, but if you really want to have hyperdrive so soon, would it not make more sense to play the classic age?


I like starting during Shadow age much more - classical era as I was new to the series was too complicated - to many things to right out of the gate(with too many unknowns) .. But since I've played a few games Shadow age games and managed to learn more about a few of the game mechanics Classical era start doesn't look so scary anymore ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigWolf
Beyond that though, good job on the math, and I really hope eventually it'll be patched so you can't have such an insane amount of research so early ;) lol


Like I said -> that was a Quemeno (Heavily Research Bonused Race) with a few extra random factors (Scientist with 44% energy skill at game start)...

The other races would be lucky to max out at ~ half of that example while most (no research bonused factions would be very lucky to get a third of that) ...



joeyeti -> RE: Empire in Age of Shadows Research Trick (~1400k at game start) (5/27/2013 8:04:28 AM)

Nice!

Luckily I cannot usually exploit games in this manner as I tend to "go with the flow" (and do not tend to overanalyze things). But for those who do, this is a nice examination!



Kruos -> RE: Empire in Age of Shadows Research Trick (~1400k at game start) (5/27/2013 9:51:46 AM)

I am not sure that scientist bonuses stack. From my observations, when you have multiple scientists, it seems that it is the best bonus wich is applied.

For example, if you have one scientist with +13% in HT, and another one with +25% in HT, it is the +25% which is applied empire-wide.

To be confirm. :)



peddroelm -> RE: Empire in Age of Shadows Research Trick (~1400k at game start) (5/27/2013 12:55:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kruos

I am not sure that scientist bonuses stack. From my observations, when you have multiple scientists, it seems that it is the best bonus wich is applied.

For example, if you have one scientist with +13% in HT, and another one with +25% in HT, it is the +25% which is applied empire-wide.

To be confirm. :)


IF they are in different locations - the best (location + scientists) bonuses apply ..

However if you have multiple scientist at the same (best) location their bonuses will stack but with some diminishing returns ...

---
Also edited the images in ...



Kruos -> RE: Empire in Age of Shadows Research Trick (~1400k at game start) (5/27/2013 1:18:18 PM)

I will check ingame, thank for the info. :)



Kadrush -> RE: Empire in Age of Shadows Research Trick (~1400k at game start) (5/29/2013 5:57:42 PM)

Tech focus is essential in early game, the only diff is that i first do that with weapons, to get starfighters, than i move to energy, research shields, energy collection and only them to warp bubble generator.



Bentley264 -> RE: Empire in Age of Shadows Research Trick (~1400k at game start) (5/30/2013 3:56:52 PM)

The toughest research project to me has been colonization, which seems to take forever; plus it costs about 200,000 credits to crash research it. 
Of course there are several other critical high tech research projects that I would like to have ASAP.



ehsumrell1 -> RE: Empire in Age of Shadows Research Trick (~1400k at game start) (5/30/2013 5:32:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kruos

I am not sure that scientist bonuses stack. From my observations, when you have multiple scientists, it seems that it is the best bonus wich is applied.

For example, if you have one scientist with +13% in HT, and another one with +25% in HT, it is the +25% which is applied empire-wide.

To be confirm. :)

Hello Kruos;

The scientist character bonuses act like this. Scientists are assigned to a research location (Research Station, Space Port, Starbase with labs, etc.). They give the research at that location a bonus that will be cumulative with the existing bonuses.

Each scientist at a research station provides research bonuses to the specific research area of the location/station they're assigned at (Weapons, Energy, HighTech). Additional scientists at the same research station provide half their skills on top of the first scientist, progressively halving with each additional scientist. Thus: Scientist 1 gives full 12% energy research bonus, Scientist 2 gives half of their 10% energy research bonus (5%), Scientist 3 gives one quarter of their 8% energy research bonus (2%), for a total of 19% energy research bonus (12 + 5 + 2). Hope this makes it clear!
[:)]



Bingeling -> RE: Empire in Age of Shadows Research Trick (~1400k at game start) (5/30/2013 6:56:42 PM)

Cumulative with all existing bonuses?

If you have a 20% weapon researcher and a 15% weapon bonus site with a weapon's station.

Will the scientist placed on the research station give a bonus of 20+15% is 35% to weapons research? I assume yes.

If you place him at a spaceport, will you only get a total of 20% from the scientist, while the weapons site is ignored since it is 15% and the spaceport is now a better site?

Now, if it is like the latter and get the 100% weapon research bonus colony. Is it possible to place the scientist at that colony? :)



Kruos -> RE: Empire in Age of Shadows Research Trick (~1400k at game start) (5/31/2013 9:29:01 AM)


1)
quote:

Will the scientist placed on the research station give a bonus of 20+15% is 35% to weapons research? I assume yes.


Yes.

2)
quote:

If you place him at a spaceport, will you only get a total of 20% from the scientist, while the weapons site is ignored since it is 15% and the spaceport is now a better site?


Yes. You will get only the +20% from the researcher, because it is the best bonus. To stack the site and researcher bonuses, you need to have it in the same place. TBC.

3)
quote:

Now, if it is like the latter and get the 100% weapon research bonus colony. Is it possible to place the scientist at that colony? :)


I suppose yes.

quote:

Hello Kruos;

The scientist character bonuses act like this. Scientists are assigned to a research location (Research Station, Space Port, Starbase with labs, etc.). They give the research at that location a bonus that will be cumulative with the existing bonuses.

Each scientist at a research station provides research bonuses to the specific research area of the location/station they're assigned at (Weapons, Energy, HighTech). Additional scientists at the same research station provide half their skills on top of the first scientist, progressively halving with each additional scientist. Thus: Scientist 1 gives full 12% energy research bonus, Scientist 2 gives half of their 10% energy research bonus (5%), Scientist 3 gives one quarter of their 8% energy research bonus (2%), for a total of 19% energy research bonus (12 + 5 + 2). Hope this makes it clear!



Thank you Ehsumrell1, it's very clear. :)



DarkThug -> RE: Empire in Age of Shadows Research Trick (~1400k at game start) (6/16/2013 12:46:04 PM)

lol nice trick. I don't know how will they fix it though. It's a flawed game design to the core [:D]

So just don't abuse it too much ?? [;)]



paShadoWn -> RE: Empire in Age of Shadows Research Trick (~1400k at game start) (6/16/2013 11:51:24 PM)

Well ive found that Ackdarian Republic works better because you get gerax somewhat later but when you get it you also have uber ships to fly on it. You can also disassemble captured pirates for boost.



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