So Is This Game Dead? (Full Version)

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Stwa -> So Is This Game Dead? (5/26/2013 5:03:19 PM)

Just wondering...

Maybe its not dead, just abondoned by everyone. The users, the developer, the uppers. [:D]

That's too bad, because the game system rocks. It's a shame to let it wither away without doing another title.

Can't this system be used for something besides WW1?

If it can, I am guessing, new background art for the forms wouldn't take a weekend to put together. Rename all the units, get some generic counters (they already exist), and bang.

And, we can play on the map we got now, until something else comes along. [:D]



lordhoff -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (5/27/2013 12:40:56 AM)

It wasn't all that long ago that it was patched but, WW-I was so unique with its lack of maneuver and static fronts that I doubt it would work with another war.



Stwa -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (5/27/2013 8:09:48 AM)

Ya, I was afraid people were gonna say that.

Oh well, it hasn't been abandoned by the on-line store. [:D]

But the developer (Frank), said he couldn't compile the software's code, because he doesn't use the same in-game buttons anymore. He said that many years ago. [:D]

Is that true? Kinda lame. If he doesn't have time for it, he should just say so.



Stwa -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (5/27/2013 4:30:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lordhoff

It wasn't all that long ago that it was patched but, WW-I was so unique with its lack of maneuver and static fronts that I doubt it would work with another war.


OK, I was thinking about what you said again. Maybe you are right, but also, maybe the game can be slightly tweaked so its not so static.

Then, add a strategic bombing phase and its good. [:D]

Then, we just need a map of most of Europe that doesn't show Spain, and has at least Tunisia, and Libya, and we could have our own War in the East without all the nausea. We could also have War in the West, and War in the South. Air power would be completely abstracted. [:D]




SMK-at-work -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (5/28/2013 11:18:27 AM)

I reckon the system would be great for WW2 at this high strategic scale - allow armoured units to move 2 hexes and it's be very interesting - there's a game called "Small General East Front" for Android that does that (inf 1 hex, armour & cav 2 hexes) with monthly turns & it's not a bad game at all...albeit very simple.

Frank is working on a WW2 game at the moment as per the "Game testers wanted" post at the top of every forum. He may come back to fix the remaining glitches in this - IMO it's still one of the great games of all time.



Stwa -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (5/28/2013 3:16:09 PM)

Thanks,

That sounds great. So we do that, (some units move 2), and we make the Air Recon actually Recon and Tactical. It can cause causualties, not just recon. Add strategic bombing. Done. [:D]

We use the NATO counters. And of course, the unit names kinda need to change. [:D]

Frank is never coming back, so someone that knows Erik (that's not his real name is it [:D]), should check to see if he can do anything. For instance, the scen and setup files must change. And, knowing Frank, there is other game date squirreled away in the EXE file. That would be my guess.

But, one thing I never got complete clarification on: I was left with the impression that the 1.3X updates no worky. I am thinking the scen files got messed up when he (Frank) added and subtracted some units, which then messed up the setup files, which then may have messed up the AIX file. Or something like that. [:D]

I am just guessing, but I still play 1.2X games, and they are fine.






SMK-at-work -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (5/29/2013 6:56:35 AM)

1.34 works fine



Stwa -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (5/30/2013 11:47:48 AM)

Don't you want to do the WW2 mod? [:D]

I do.

BTW, now days there are four options for this game that I can tell from looking in the members area.

v1.20 = Intial Release
v1.23 = Official Update, the version Stwa uses.
v1.32 = Official Update, except the AI Russians do not attack. The AI hotfix does NOT correct this issue.
v1.34 = Official Update, some setups (and maybe other data files), are not synced ("off") by 2 corps beginning with the Russians.



Stwa -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (5/30/2013 6:50:55 PM)

But, apart from all that version stuff, if anyone can clue me in on why the setups seem different for the 1.3X versions, I would appreciate it.

The game still rocks, and just got in a victory with CP. It was fun. But speaking of setup's, there are 3 different Schleiffen plans as below:

Schlieffen-Galacia - I think I understand this one.
Schlieffen
Schliffen <----- the filename is spelled this way

But what about the Schlieffen vs Schliffen plans. Are these just the same plan, they are not identical, but look very similar?



Stwa -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (6/1/2013 3:26:59 AM)

Man, this forum is dead as a doornail.

That's too bad. Is everyone already done with this title. Someone of stature in the community need to recommend to the uppers, that we use this thing for a WW2 game.

Anyway, I decided to work with the alternate map which I like a great deal. In fact, I normally use the alternate map with the original counters. You just can't beat those counters.

Now, I am really the wrong person for most art jobs, but I finished the alternate map out by getting rid of the big rectangle.

That being said, I haven't put in any rough terrain or open space where the rectangle was, just desert for now.

I was able to do the shorelines so they look just like the original, and I tried to blend everything into the sea areas as best I could.

[image]local://upfiles/17700/7842546D7135453EB5EB8B604E29E5DC.jpg[/image]



Stwa -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (6/1/2013 3:36:13 AM)

And as an extra bonus, this map properly scales to the corners, so the India hex is not all messed up like with the other maps.

Oh, and and several years ago, I got all the pure white pixels out of all the British icons, so they don't display with the black flecks in the flags. [:D]

[image]local://upfiles/17700/D77A9378B6654AE0B828727ECE3C731F.jpg[/image]



SMK-at-work -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (6/1/2013 4:37:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stwa

Schlieffen
Schliffen <----- the filename is spelled this way

But what about the Schlieffen vs Schliffen plans. Are these just the same plan, they are not identical, but look very similar?


Yeah they look like variations - perhaps 1 is "historical" and the other is the original plan, which historically got watered down a bit.

I'm not sure exactly.



Stwa -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (6/1/2013 4:48:02 AM)

Thanks,

If true, then the watered down version should be Moltke the Younger. [:D]

And also, don't stare at the alternate map too long, or you will notice there is no Crete, Rhodes, or Cypres. [:D]

For, the WW2 game, we should replace GAS (Poison), with BOMBS, working your way up to FAT BOY.

And tank R&D will get you the super heavy tanks in the end, but at the beginning you will get wimpy light and medium tanks.

And for Paratroops, we will need a special kind of "stategic movement" that lets you land in a hex behind enemy lines. It will be very realistic, because until the main force breaks through to the Paratroops, their readiness will decrease every turn.



SMK-at-work -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (6/1/2013 5:34:18 AM)

There are plenty of R&D "trees" out there in various games that IMO work quite well - the GOA one wold indeed work for heavy tanks and A-bombs, and also improved submarines & anti-submarine, electronic warfare (although that is probably incorporated in better "tech" for things like a/c and ships), and of course jets.

IMO they are no biggie.

I think Frank might well come back to WW1, but he has other projects, so if he does it seems unlikely it will be son.



Stwa -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (6/1/2013 6:50:07 AM)

Gosh,

We don't want Frank to do the project. I am so sorry, I left the wrong impression. If Frank does it, it will take FOREVER. Taking forever isn't always that bad. I does take time to make the codeline smaller. That's a fact. [:D]

But it's Frank's designs that are compelling. And he keeps things simple and in the norm, like the tech tree, and we should too.

This WW2 project, at the beginning just needs to be built with the existing GOA game first. If I had full time days, it could be done in a few weeks. New unit names, new set-ups, finish off the un-finished NATO counters. (Imagine including an alernate counter set that wasn't even finished). WTF, Erik made him do it. That's my guess. [:D]

But anyway, they are nice counters, and we can use them. Create tank units (that you can use at the start of the game) from the available infantry or cavalry units. Rename the ships, it's pretty easy when you think about it.

The cartoon effect in Gimp can be used on the color photos we will use for the background windowed forms. This looks alot like the current art, but whoever did the originals had a much better cartoon effect going than the one supplied by Gimp.

Worst case, don't we need permission from someone to mod the game. Its gotta be outside of the EULA. Right? [X(]

[:D]



SMK-at-work -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (6/1/2013 9:57:59 AM)

Mods are fine - but I think the only things that can actually be modded are the graphics - you couldn't change the game mechanics to reflect 1939 political boundaries for example, or add in a new tech tree, etc.

And from the conversations I had with Frank about coming back to GOA it seems the ..um...environment?? Whatever the system he used to create the game (I'm not an IT geek sorry) - he wasn't sure whether he still had GOA's one in order to revisit it, so he was looking at porting it into the new one he is using for his latest projects.




Stwa -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (6/1/2013 2:23:22 PM)

Hi again,

I am enjoying this conversation, btw.

OK, the environment. With the GOA exe, Frank used a Resource Manager, probably from the late 90's. The Resource Manager allows the progarmmer to create forms (windows) within an EXE file, to handle all the list boxes, messages, buttons and artwork, and displays of other strings, etc. that you seen when you execute the game. Chances are this part of the exe (its a tool), is older and maybe 16 bit (I don't know), and this maybe why you need compatability mode in Win 7 (maybe the 64 bit version), when you run the game in that environment.

Surely, he hasn't pitched this RM. He just wants to use a newer one going into the future for the newer operating systems. Also, he could link the RM portions of the exe into it's own DLL (another form of exe), so that these parts (that manage windows), are seperated from the remainder of the executable code.

It would a goal for the mod, to come up in the existing game first, in its current environment, and then see if anyone wants to go futher.

If Frank has done his job, the executable code, has no idea that it is running a period specific game. What makes it a WW1 game vs a WW2 game, is the artwork, and the game's data.

If the border hexes are determined by program logic alone to determine where to display the borders, then that would be an exception to what I just stated above. However, perhaps it is the case that the hex or map data file or the scen files, describe which hexes are border hexes, etc.




Stwa -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (6/1/2013 3:32:59 PM)

Also,

It should be a goal of the mod, to NOT expand upon the game system, either to create new mechanism's, or "correct" existing mechanisms. This goal can partly answer the initial approach on the tech tree. The current tech tree as it stands now, is totally suitable for the WW2 game. The gamers will be pondering whether to invest heavily in Trench technology, because armor units can move 2 hexes, as you suggested above.

The poison gas technology, for the time being, can simply be changed to bomb technology. We just need 3 names of bombs, to replace Green Cross, Yellow Cross, etc... We don't really need an A-Bomb, just some fancy real life names of giant bombs.

Now, applying our other mod goal (using the existing game as the first prototype), you will see Bomb technology in the R & D section (it replaced Gas), and when you click on an artillery counter, you will see Tactical Bombing in place of Poison gas in the menu. You can then point to the target of such bombing, and voila!

It is just having to point to an artillery unit that will make this feature seem odd. If we go beyond the mod prototype, perhaps you can click on some other kind of unit, to initiate tactical bombing.



Stwa -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (6/1/2013 4:05:22 PM)

To make all this happen in a professional and correct way, it would be best if the mod was allowed to modify the forms created with the resource manager I described above, and/or to change some text strings. In theory all text strings used by the game should be contained with the resources section of the exe. But sneaky (or sometimes lazy) programmers put string data in other sections of the exe.

It's not that they are being so lazy. It's just that the games forms can't really do heavy duty string manipulation, and nowdays most programming languages can. It wasn't always that way, for instance, FORTRAN comes to mind.

If the mod was allowed to change the items I mentioned, then a satisfactory prototype of a WW2 game using Frank's design for WW1 could be achieved in weeks, as opposed to months or years. [:D]



SMK-at-work -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (6/1/2013 10:49:27 PM)

I really can't comment on the technical aspects sorry - well outside my area of expertise - last programming I did was Fortran V in the mid 1980's!!!!

Edit: I posted some info I'd received from Frank in October last year - http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3191644



Stwa -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (6/2/2013 1:28:01 AM)

Ya, I saw that thread a while back.

In today's world, dissemenating information is getting harder and harder to do. Birthers, 911 Truthers, the Kennedy assassination, fake moon landings, Mars rodents. It just is all getting too much to cope with. [:D]

But when I read the quote from Frank, in the thread that you linked, I thought to myself, "what a strange response". And so, I concluded that the post was basically fake. [:D]

It was the part about Matrix playtesting his "turned in" WW2 game prior to its release, that hung me up. [:D]

But, you never know, and hopefully I am just wrong.

So, I gotta ask, maybe you could send another e-mail to Frank. One per year is not too many is it? [:D]

Maybe I will set up a scenario file (and setup file) with WW2 type data, and try it with the current GOA game. [;)]



SMK-at-work -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (6/2/2013 4:39:33 AM)

He had a WW2 game mentioned in the play-test message that was at the top of each forum until recently.

Not sure if I still have his email - I'll check - nope - lost it in a crash/upgrade over Xmas :(



Stwa -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (6/2/2013 1:06:44 PM)

So, is there a play-test message at the top of the Guns of August forum?

If this e-mail address for Frank still works, you can give it a try ... fhunter@telus.net

Maybe Frank will clue you in on the status of the WW2 game, and you can pass that info on to the rest of the forumites.

[:D]



SMK-at-work -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (6/3/2013 1:10:52 AM)

There was a message for a while - it went about 2 weeks ago I think - that is the address I have tried, and yes, I'll pass anything on.

But it's not like we're regular buddies! :)



Stwa -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (6/5/2013 1:46:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work
But it's not like we're regular buddies! :)


Thank GOD. [:D]

So, I suppose there was no reply eh? Maybe the game is in BEEG SECRET mode right now. [:D]

And, no need for additional play testers? BTW, is the WW2 game, going to be ARMY/CORP level like GoA?

Anyway, I got a nice 1.31 version going. I think this was the last one I had working when I stopped playing sometime late 2009 or 2010.

Then, I got 1.34 going. I am checking out the Editor and the scen and setup files, to see if everything is ok or not.




SMK-at-work -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (6/6/2013 8:22:05 AM)

IIRC the WW2 game is a lower level than corps/army, but I dot' recall exactly. and no - no reply yet, so the address might not work any more :/



Stwa -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (6/6/2013 11:46:18 AM)

OK,

Thanks so much for trying. Perhaps you will hear from him soon.

But you know, even this game (GoA) doesn't have to present to the User an ARMY/CORP level game. It could present smaller echelons. Then the time scale or movment scale (area on map), would be changed to follow suit.

Also, it would be better, if he (Frank), could at least re-compile (re-create), the current GoA game. If for no other reason, there might come a time when a small update would be beneficial, without having to change out the UI.



SMK-at-work -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (6/6/2013 12:14:36 PM)

I like the high level of GOA - I prefer commanding an army at a strategic level and planning the economy/resources/production of the war at least as much - even more so - as carrying out "manouvres" :)



Stwa -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (6/11/2013 2:39:42 AM)

Hi,

Sorry I didn't get back sooner. Ya, I agree with you. But any game with this much stacking is gonna be mind boggling. I have played to completion several Schlieffen plans, and each game has turned out to be remarkably different than the one before it.

It is amazing how the "beeg" battles turn out to be different locations. The readiness factor can just be excruciating. Even if your attacks succeed, you are always vulnerable to counterattacks. The AI, is pretty nifty at encirlment too, which is the best part of the East front. (i.e. encirciling the largest part of the Russian Army that you can).

Frank Hunter need to make more that 2 games a decade. This system alone might be able to be used for some other periods. It's a shame it may not happen.

But, I have to admit, WWI is a great subject. Having so many participating countries at once is a real blast.

And this is one game where the economic stuff, is a lot of fun, based on how Frank set it up. Having to constantly prop-up Austria every strategic phase is a blast. [:)]



Stwa -> RE: So Is This Game Dead? (7/6/2013 7:46:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Mods are fine - but I think the only things that can actually be modded are the graphics - you couldn't change the game mechanics to reflect 1939 political boundaries for example, or add in a new tech tree, etc.



Hey, I have been messin with this game all summer. Its been alot of fun. But I thought to myself, one way to deal with the borders, is to just not have them. To do that you would just paint the border graphics as totally transparent. The game would display the border graphics as is does now, but the borders would not be visible to the gamers.

That being said, I like the borders, but Frank (or whoever set them up), gomered them. They don't really line up with the dashed hexes very well. Especially the NE corner of each hex.

Also, I messed around with the 1.3X versions again. I must have done a certain amount of this in 2009. IMHO, the 1.3X versions attempt to make some signigicant changes to the game, and these changes weren't tested thouroughly, and I keep thinking that the best version for moi is 1.23, which still has a few bugs (like the Italian fort ratings). But since I always play solitaire, this version seems the best. I put together a script, which I can run which will modify the saved game file and correct the Italian forts. But even without this, this is hardly a beeg time issue.

I would like to find version 1.24, but I just can't seem to find it on-line anywhere, because it was a beta (not an official) patch.



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