The AI isn't very smart about ship graveyards (Full Version)

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invaderzim -> The AI isn't very smart about ship graveyards (6/6/2013 12:08:13 AM)

It seems to always send lone construction ships to repair a capital ship at the graveyard. The fleet I have guarding one graveyard has "acquired" construction ships from about four or five different factions and I'm not even done capturing all the old ships. I could just leave one ship unfinished and see how many more ships they send...



Arcatus -> RE: The AI isn't very smart about ship graveyards (6/6/2013 9:22:26 AM)

Wait what?

I often fire off a shot or two at other constructors to scare them away, but this increases tension, so quite a few wars have broken out over that. Even if war doesn't break out they will often send out escorts to attack my "provoker".

A similar thing should surely happen when capturing a contructor?






TanC -> RE: The AI isn't very smart about ship graveyards (6/6/2013 9:56:55 AM)

What? They even have ship graveyards? I didn't even know that. Learn something new about DW every day. :)



jesuswhywhy -> RE: The AI isn't very smart about ship graveyards (6/6/2013 12:30:04 PM)

hehe one game i got like 2-3 graveyards that were quiet accessible, both times the ai didnt bother with them



MartialDoctor -> RE: The AI isn't very smart about ship graveyards (6/6/2013 3:18:02 PM)

Yes, the AI doesn't seem to realize how important they are. I actually make a self-rule to play like they do and only send one construction ship. I also never keep capital ships in my fleet, as they are too game altering.



Bebop Cola -> RE: The AI isn't very smart about ship graveyards (6/6/2013 4:37:55 PM)

I think there may be a point of interest regarding the diplomatic hit for capturing constructor ships. I've not looked in to it in my game terribly closely as I'm usually capturing pirate constructors and don't care about the rep hit.

That said, one does need to fire at the ship to drop any shields to capture it, so there should still be the same diplomatic hit as firing at it. However, is the same diplomatic hit levied for capturing the ship as is when destroying it? From the other empire's perspective, they lose control of the ship as assuredly as if it were destroyed, so I think it should be if isn't already.

Regarding the ship graveyards, I would assume the middling response to them on the part of the AI is a question of balance. If the AI were to treat them with the same priority as the player does, I would expect it would be faster about discovering and capitalizing them, resulting in quick leaps in AI tech and strength over the player. If that's true, then I would suggest that instead of having the AI respond tepidly, it send constructors to grab a few key ships and military ships to destroy the rest. If it can't have them, either because it couldn't afford to maintain them or because it doesn't have the time or resources to grab them, then it should work to deny them to everyone else by destroying them. Same goes for the world-destroyers.



invaderzim -> RE: The AI isn't very smart about ship graveyards (6/6/2013 6:54:57 PM)

quote:

Yes, the AI doesn't seem to realize how important they are. I actually make a self-rule to play like they do and only send one construction ship. I also never keep capital ships in my fleet, as they are too game altering.


Does turning off the Distant Worlds storyline event disable the huge ship graveyards? I think that's the reason Das02468 turns them off for his games.

If you have a treaty with someone and they show up at a graveyard, you basically have to shoot them or let them take some ships. I think there should be a diplomatic option to tell the AI that I've claimed the graveyard and they should either leave or risk starting a war. Or you could have an option to pay them off with something so that they let you have the graveyard.



Lucian -> RE: The AI isn't very smart about ship graveyards (6/6/2013 7:29:41 PM)

I agree about the diplomatic option, but I also think that changes should me made so that ship graveyards are NOT so game altering. Basically almost all my efforts go into finding these things - every single game - and once I have a cap ship or two on my side in the early era the game is all but won.

I think its too unbalancing. Perhaps the solution would be to make graveyards much harder to find in the early era and only make them visible - possibly with better sensor tech - at higher tech levels when finding them wont unbalance the game so much.



invaderzim -> RE: The AI isn't very smart about ship graveyards (6/6/2013 9:00:12 PM)

Perhaps so, it would probably be better if they had fewer ships and few capital ships too. The last graveyard I found had about 3 cap ships, 4 cruisers, and a handful of destroyers, frigates and 2 transports.

Or perhaps they could be defended by a strong alien defense force like the Guardian in Master of Orion so that you would need a powerful fleet to capture it first.



Bebop Cola -> RE: The AI isn't very smart about ship graveyards (6/6/2013 9:05:42 PM)

I would suggest something along the lines of prohibiting or slowing repair on components you don't have the tech for. If you find a graveyard, you could assign your constructor ships to it, but if you don't have the tech for the components you will either be unable to repair them, or will have your repair rate slow to a crawl as your repair and research teams reverse engineer them to learn how to repair them.

Now, to make this work you would likely need to assign each ship or graveyard a tech level, as DW technology advance is often about improvements to existing components. Sure, you only get the component at the level of what you already have researched, but if it's packaged in a large ship with other techs that's often not a particular disadvantage. There should also be a risk, scaled with the difference between tech levels of the repairer and ship, of failure that destroys the ship and/or component. Racial technologies and components, of course, are impossible to break down/repair unless you're of that race or have the tech through trade or theft.

This would tie up construction ships(and military vessels for defense) to long periods of time that in early games are more likely needed elsewhere.



Lucian -> RE: The AI isn't very smart about ship graveyards (6/6/2013 9:28:40 PM)

quote:

I would suggest something along the lines of prohibiting or slowing repair on components you don't have the tech for. If you find a graveyard, you could assign your constructor ships to it, but if you don't have the tech for the components you will either be unable to repair them, or will have your repair rate slow to a crawl as your repair and research teams reverse engineer them to learn how to repair them.


I like this idea, in addition to nicely solving the problem it actually makes sense too.



invaderzim -> RE: The AI isn't very smart about ship graveyards (6/6/2013 11:12:30 PM)

I think the game actually gives you a research boost while you are repairing graveyard ships. I hope they don't require you to actually get the materials to fabricate the components though or it will take a very long time with the current freighters.



elanaagain -> RE: The AI isn't very smart about ship graveyards (6/10/2013 4:13:28 AM)

My last game, I found the humans repairing the death star (1/2 done). Of course, I blasted the death star (humans too strong to start a war with!). I haven't noticed tech gaining while repairing graveyard ships in Shadows.



turtlefang -> RE: The AI isn't very smart about ship graveyards (6/10/2013 8:53:25 PM)

You get about a 10% tech bonus (or did, don't know if you do in the expansion) while working ship graveyards. These don't stack, so having multiple graveyards won't give you more than the 10%.



elanaagain -> RE: The AI isn't very smart about ship graveyards (6/10/2013 11:31:59 PM)

I noted the tech gain while 'working the graveyard shift' in legends... just not in shadows...



Shark7 -> RE: The AI isn't very smart about ship graveyards (6/10/2013 11:32:56 PM)

With the ship graveyards. Once you have more construction ships than you need, they should start repairing the old derelicts. The problem in shadows I've seen thus far is my constructors are always behind schedule trying to get mines built. [:-]



invaderzim -> RE: The AI isn't very smart about ship graveyards (6/10/2013 11:59:16 PM)

It would be handy if you could leave one constructor on repair duty to help fix up derelicts or disabled fleet ships.



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