Calling it a win?

Calling it a win? (Full Version)

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Goblin -> Calling it a win? (1/8/2003 8:29:27 AM)
When you play a PBEM opponent, how do you determine who wins? No, no, screw the game point decision. A draw! A draw!:rolleyes: I think most guys are equal enough around here to get a draw just about every time. Jess and I had a game where we scored 12000 some each. He beat me by 40 or so points, so it was a draw. NO IT WASN'T! He beat me. Period. Usually, if I am being beaten, and I know it, I waste no more time, and hit that F9 key! Why waste important playing time, when your opponent has beaten you beyond recovery? Tell him so, and play again is my motto, lol. Just curious what you fellows do to determine a winner... Goblin

Redleg -> (1/8/2003 9:30:26 AM)
A win to me can be many things. It depends a lot upon the nature of the battle. Sometimes, I will play something just to see if I can avoid a loss. When this happens, I consider a "draw" to be a "win". Sometimes, I will think to myself, I wonder if I can stop a Soviet attack with Rumanians! Those I usually do not fare well in. (I am trying to avoid thinking of these things) OTOH, if I have a strong force and foul up an attack, I find myself thinking of a marginal victory as a poor performance. The best (most enjoyable) battles I have ever played have all been draws. I cannot think of a decisive win or loss that seemed like it was fun or something I would want to do again. I agree about the F9 key. If it is lost, why not surrender and go on to something else.

rbrunsman -> (1/9/2003 1:05:38 AM)
I was playing a well known/respected PBEMer and I thought I was done for when he admitted that I was kicking his ***.:confused: I would just suggest that you be absolutely certain you have been defeated before hitting F9. But I do know what it is like to be thoroughly thrashed: V2 did it to me in my first attempt at H2H as the Germans. Oh, boy! I played badly and had the Germans. It was not pretty, but I made us play it out because I was curious about what the computer would decide the result was... It was a Marginal Victory for V2. Yeah, right! I was swept from the field and didn't inflict that much damage, I thought.

Capt. Pixel -> The nice thing about a 'Game' is... (1/9/2003 1:09:32 AM)
Surrender is an option. :D I play this game for entertainment. After a while, one learns to recognize where a particular battle is going, without having to play it to the nitty-gritty end. (Other times a battle can keep you enrapt right up to the last turn. ;) ) As I consider this game an elaborate version of chess, conceding defeat and setting up the board for another go, is perfectly honorable. Two wise players can easily recognize when their game has slowly dribbled down to an inconclusive draw. The play's the thing. :cool: "Points, schmoints. I know when my a$$ is getting whooped!" - Capt. Pixel

Goblin -> (1/9/2003 1:12:31 AM)
Lol, I know, but isn't the fact that you thought you were beat very representative of real life? How many forces lost battles that they were not really losing because they [I]thought[/I] they were?! So far, all the battles I thought I was losing, I was when I surrendered. Most of them, I was losing very badly... Anyways, to me it is just not right to say you and your opponent got a 'draw' based on the games definition of a draw. If I am beaten, I am beaten. Goblin ;)

Orzel Bialy -> I hate the F9 Key... (1/9/2003 1:12:36 AM)
but I understand that there are times when it's a must. After all, if you or your opponent is to the point where one of you can't do anything but watch your units get wasted...so yeah...after all where's the fun to that? Move on to the next one and go at it again!

Goblin -> Re: The nice thing about a 'Game' is... (1/9/2003 1:13:34 AM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Capt. Pixel [B]Surrender is an option. :D I play this game for entertainment. After a while, one learns to recognize where a particular battle is going, without having to play it to the nitty-gritty end. (Other times a battle can keep you enrapt right up to the last turn. ;) ) As I consider this game an elaborate version of chess, conceding defeat and setting up the board for another go, is perfectly honorable. Two wise players can easily recognize when their game has slowly dribbled down to an inconclusive draw. The play's the thing. :cool: "Points, schmoints. I know when my a$$ is getting whooped!" - Capt. Pixel [/B][/QUOTE] Points, joints? Sometimes I think maybe, with you, lol.... Goblin:D

Katana -> (1/9/2003 5:12:53 AM)
Surrender? Even when I KNOW I'm losing, I'm still reluctant to hit F9. Depends on what's left. If I can still fight back as opposed to just drawing out the game, I'll hang in there. Instead of hoisting a white flag I'd rather play 'Butch and Sundance' :D

Goblin -> (1/9/2003 5:40:50 AM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Katana [B]Surrender? Even when I KNOW I'm losing, I'm still reluctant to hit F9. Depends on what's left. If I can still fight back as opposed to just drawing out the game, I'll hang in there. Instead of hoisting a white flag I'd rather play 'Butch and Sundance' :D [/B][/QUOTE] You still didn' say how you decide who won. Everyone here can fight it out to the last unit, and still end up with the game saying 'draw' because of the stupid point cutoffs. Do you give it to the guy with the higher points then? Or just get draws all the time? That's what I am curious about. Goblin

Katana -> (1/9/2003 7:09:53 AM)
Most of the time it's fairly obvious who won. Other times decide by points, I guess. (but the smaller the margin the more it feels like a draw)

rbrunsman -> (1/9/2003 7:11:24 AM)
I look at points to see who won. But you can "win" on points and still know that you were outplayed. The game is fun because each person can have his own idea of who "won." You can easily have two winners in SPWAW.

Capt. Pixel -> (1/9/2003 7:28:06 AM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman [B]I look at points to see who won. But you can "win" on points and still know that you were outplayed. The game is fun because each person can have his own idea of who "won." You can easily have two winners in SPWAW. [/B][/QUOTE] If you get to play, you're a winner :D I'd have to guess that in 5+ years, I've only had a handful of games that were 'close' (and consequently, memorable). Most of the rest develop into a totally victory or a total defeat in fairly short order. I believe it has something to do with being the one who controls the tempo of the battlefield. You're all aware of that feeling that: A) There's nothing I can do, everywhere I go he whomps me. -or- B) I'm unstoppable. The only thing slowing me from killing more is my shot and movement limits. Once the game has reached that point, I tend to bow out. (unless, of course, I'm with option B and my opponent is a masochist. But even Goblin won't put up with that for long. :D)

Gary Tatro -> I do not know if I am quoting (1/9/2003 9:15:20 AM)
But I feel like I have won if I can control the battle. If I can control when and where my opponet attacks, force him to go where I want him to go and choose my engagements through out most of the battle I feel that I am the winner. Even if I lose.

hellcat -> (1/9/2003 10:36:51 AM)
excuse me popping up everywhere but there's so much cool stuff to catch up on... I'd agree about not being too hasty with that F9 key (unless you are playing Gary maybe) as sometimes you never know... The tide of battle can turn all the way around sometimes. But... true when you know it's over you may as well cut your losses and come back for more (eh Goblin? ) :mad: who has taught me that one :mad:

rbrunsman -> (1/9/2003 12:53:26 PM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Capt. Pixel [B]I'd have to guess that in 5+ years, I've only had a handful of games that were 'close' (and consequently, memorable). Most of the rest develop into a totally victory or a total defeat in fairly short order. [/B][/QUOTE] I'd have to say that in a year of PBEMs that I guess I'm very lucky because I have alot of tight games. I think I know who is going to win, but I'm not sure. VikingNo2 and I have had several that went to the last round (except the last one, it was over for me by turn 5, well OK turn 4, but that was because I was trying a new tactic, and it was the first time I tried H2H). :D The best games are the ones where the tide turns several times. Those battles will necessarily be draws by the computers reconning. But they are the most satisfying wins/defeats.

M4Jess -> (1/9/2003 8:48:01 PM)
I always "win" but I dont often get a "Victory" The players and the game make me a winner!:D as far as victory..if I am loosing the battle and cant save my troops I will surrender and give the victory to my opponent. Doom and Bel vs. Me in Stalingrad..My force broke and I knew I was dead. The game showed a draw but I gave them a well deserved victory. Right know Viking is kicking my arse or is he?;)

VikingNo2 -> (1/10/2003 4:37:59 AM)
Yes, he is :rolleyes:

Irinami -> Without having read the entire thread yet... (1/12/2003 11:14:16 AM)
I define victory/defeat with the following conditions: Can I "hold what I've got?" Then, can my forces take what he's got? Then, can they hold that? Concurrently, I believe that the time limit at the end of the battle means that either this sector has become irrelevant to the rest of the war, or reinforcements from one or both sides have arrived and will totally change the face of the battle (probably making the victory hexes different). So... If we both get equivalent reinforcements, could I achieve the above three? What reinforcements could I expect from my nation, from his nation, and could mine do the top three? If I can't hold what I've got, then it's a Decisive Defeat. If I can only hold what I've got, but don't have the forces to prosecute an advance, then it's a Marginal Defeat (unless I hold like, all but 2 V-hexes ;p). If I can take what he's got, but can't be sure of holding it, it's a Marginal Victory. If I can hold what I've got, take what he's got, and hold what he had, then that my friends is a Decisive Victory... because IM(ns)HO that would require having most of your original force intact.

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