Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (Full Version)

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paShadoWn -> Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/16/2013 9:25:27 PM)

The freighter exploit: when you run low on money, scrap all your freighters. Your bases will immediately churn out new ones and you will get money from it. Wait for these freighters to replenish resources at shipyards and scrap them again. I wouldnt say infinite but you can get 100k every few minutes.

The billions of civilian money: these bastards hoard huge sums as their income far outweighs what they pay to you and they dont spend any considerable amounts on anything else.



Darkspire -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/16/2013 10:05:16 PM)

Not to pour petrol on an all ready stoked bonfire but I am getting the distinct impression you are not feeling the love for DW [:D]

Darkspire



paShadoWn -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/16/2013 10:33:05 PM)

Do you believe in trolling? I do not. I tried to feed on others essence and found it weakening and disgusting. Most ppl are sick and corrupt. The good communities give much better stuff just for joining and doing some simple tasks.

Theres a good reference for it in DoW2: Chaos Rising when Space Marine exclamates with disgust seeing the sacrifice scene: "He feeds on them!" Which explains that Astartes, being undeniably powerful, do not condescend to feasting on others to sustain their super-human strength.

Love? All i feel is a bitter disappointment. First time in history of Earth a proper space sim was conceived, and for years it suffers from poor implementation. I had some expectations for Stardrive too, but it turned out to be a rip-off DW with missing features. Consider this, there are only two games of this kind: DW and Majesty. The second was flawless but could use a lot more expansions than one. The DW is still in development, which means it will improve.



necaradan666 -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/17/2013 12:11:45 AM)

Going by all your posts; it seems your dislike of DW, and your judgements on what would make it a superior 4x leave you with at least one obvious recourse.. make your own game. One that works the way you think it should. People might even buy it, who knows.

Plenty of Astartes feed on their foes, even of the most loyal chapters, and the Blood Ravens are far from the most loyal, depending on who you ask.



Shark7 -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/17/2013 2:04:19 AM)

Easy fix to the freighter exploit...don't do it.

The only person you are cheating is yourself when you do that. It's not a multi-player game, if you use an exploit, you have only yourself to blame and you only ruin your own enjoyment. I refuse to use such an exploit, even though I know how the economy works in game. I prefer to take up the challenge of fixing my cashflow without resorting to exploits, and it turns out to be a fun challenge.

There is no such thing as a perfect game. It really is up to you if you choose to cheat, if you don't use the exploit you have found, it is a non-issue.



MarQan -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/17/2013 2:10:12 AM)

+1



MayhemMike -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/17/2013 2:27:50 AM)

hm, does it even matter? I mean you can simply open the world editor and give yourself as much money as you want



Brainsucker -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/17/2013 4:06:26 AM)

But I think the civilian should be given more options on how to spend their money to. Not only to buy a new spaceship; so you can hoard their cash for the greater good. Well, maybe the next DW expansion can exploit these civilians more.



elanaagain -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/17/2013 4:22:23 AM)

I agree with stark7. Exploits are only exploits if the user implements the exploit (when playing a single player game). I have said this numerous times on the Elemental war of magic forums. If its an exploit, don't do it. If you don't like the teleport spells, don't use them. In DW, there are several ways to 'cheat.' Since its not an AI issue, just don't do it. I would rather the programmers spend their time fixing bugs, improving the AI's performance (better opponents), and improving the interface windows, etc.



Ob1ivion -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/17/2013 4:26:37 AM)

I've just started skipping over any response from paShadoWn. They're always full of some other video game quote and snide remarks on DW that aren't really effective criticism.



Lucian -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/17/2013 5:26:25 PM)

Still, if there were an easy way of fixing the exploit (big if), it should probably be fixed, not all of us like to hamstring ourselves when we play a game. The economic system should be robust enough that such cheap exploits are not even possible. The game design would probably benefit from it too, although at this late stage I fear that such a fix would be non trivial and far too difficult to implement.



Shark7 -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/17/2013 5:35:06 PM)

The simplest fix is to simply disable scrapping or gifting of civilian ships. Exploit fixed. Then again, this takes away a diplomacy tool from the player (ship gifting). In other words, a catch 22, you fix one thing and break another.

Of course I will always fall back on the 'Don't use it in the first place' fix myself.

Honestly, it was never a problem till now, probably because most of us either didn't think to do it, or didn't complain about something we chose not to do in the first place.



Bloodly -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/17/2013 6:21:52 PM)

It only works for Empires anyway. Pirates don't get a private sector to mooch off.



Larsenex -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/17/2013 6:39:50 PM)

Ooo, you can GIFT ships? All this time and I never knew that! Oooo I am gonna make some happy Securans!



Bebop Cola -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/17/2013 7:18:58 PM)

Does gifting ships net you any benefit diplomatically? I've not looked to confirm, but as it's happening outside the diplomacy screen is it tracked as a diplomatic action?



Shark7 -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/17/2013 9:10:15 PM)

Well I found it by accident actually, here's a screen shot showing what you do.

Choose the ship, right click on it, and you get a choice of who to give the ship to.

[image]local://upfiles/25927/A416C5F120664C888ED8840FCAB1A951.jpg[/image]



Bebop Cola -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/17/2013 9:13:58 PM)

Right. I've gifted ships to other empires as well, I'm just not sure it's registered diplomatically. Ideally it would be, of course.



Larsenex -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/17/2013 10:34:55 PM)

I just found this feature as well. It 'should' register some way diplomatically but who knows.

Does gifting a ship with a Admiral or General on it Kill him off? I know he dies if you scrap the ship as I scrapped a bunch of ships that were 'stuck retrofitting' and the Your admiral died off in a freak accident message.



Osito -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/17/2013 11:13:41 PM)

I tried giving about 50 ships to another empire, which changed the balance of power so that they were more powerful militarily than my empire. It didn't have any effect on their opinion of me. So I'm inclined to think this doesn't affect diplomatic relations, until such time as someone can prove it does.

If you give away a ship with a Fleet Admiral or Ship Captain on it, you will lose them.

Osito



Bingeling -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/17/2013 11:22:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

The simplest fix is to simply disable scrapping or gifting of civilian ships. Exploit fixed. Then again, this takes away a diplomacy tool from the player (ship gifting). In other words, a catch 22, you fix one thing and break another.

Of course I will always fall back on the 'Don't use it in the first place' fix myself.

Honestly, it was never a problem till now, probably because most of us either didn't think to do it, or didn't complain about something we chose not to do in the first place.

Or simply remove all control of the civilian ships. They are civilian anyways. Why should you be allowed to gift them? Retrofit them? Scrap them? They are not under the player's control.

That way it would at least require some work with frequent design changes to exploit their cash into the player's bank account.



Darkspire -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/18/2013 12:14:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

The simplest fix is to simply disable scrapping or gifting of civilian ships. Exploit fixed. Then again, this takes away a diplomacy tool from the player (ship gifting). In other words, a catch 22, you fix one thing and break another.

Of course I will always fall back on the 'Don't use it in the first place' fix myself.

Honestly, it was never a problem till now, probably because most of us either didn't think to do it, or didn't complain about something we chose not to do in the first place.

Or simply remove all control of the civilian ships. They are civilian anyways. Why should you be allowed to gift them? Retrofit them? Scrap them? They are not under the player's control.

That way it would at least require some work with frequent design changes to exploit their cash into the player's bank account.


To be quite honest I can see the point or exploit as it were, but you would lose an awfully large amount of resources unless you constantly check the menus for there cargo, either that or lose the resources, personally I would not even think about. Tried a few last night, and the work needed far outweighs the returns, and you use up resources to replace the merchant fleet, so no, not a good idea in my book.

Darkspire



Bebop Cola -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/18/2013 1:32:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

Or simply remove all control of the civilian ships. They are civilian anyways. Why should you be allowed to gift them? Retrofit them? Scrap them? They are not under the player's control.

That way it would at least require some work with frequent design changes to exploit their cash into the player's bank account.

In my opinion, from this perspective one should wonder why the State gets to design civilian ships at all. I mean, that's not how it works in our world for the most part. The State can set certain guidlines(safety, fuel standards, etc) that the private sector has to work into the designs, but the State isn't handling the design itself.

If we're going to sever State control of civilian ships, design should go out the window as well. The extent of State influence should be on the order of requiring them to use caslon for fuel, and what limits are placed on offensive and defensive systems.



adecoy95 -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/18/2013 2:09:28 AM)

im not seeing the exploit honestly, humans can perform this action with their unique government type anyways i believe.



elanaagain -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/18/2013 4:11:58 AM)

Not seeing the exploit? The idea is this: when you ("I am the state") need cash, just scrap (or give away) a bunch of civilian ships. Then the AI will order new civilian ships to replace the ones that are gone. The civilian sector (run by the AI) has a target number of each type of civilian ship that is to 'exist' based on current empire's population, number of colonies, and number of space-ports (did I miss anything?). Of course, the building of new ships transfers cash from the private sector to the state (player) sector.



Ob1ivion -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/18/2013 5:34:22 AM)

It still takes resources. Its not like its just free money. You're boosting your money while crippling your supplies. Doesn't really seem worthwhile to me.



DarkThug -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/18/2013 10:11:59 AM)

Crippling your supplies and private sector's money. It's not like the money is pop up from nowhere.
You simply transfer the amount from private account to state account at the cost of all resource your freighters are carrying.

I don't think we should be restricted from scrapping civilian ship. I foresee more issues that way.
The problem here is that Private sector usually swim in money. So implementing this "exploit" is of no ill effect.
Robbing money from Private sector should cause severe consequent, potentially killing your own private sector off.
If we can somehow fix this. People will think twice before doing it. Only then this exploit will truly be "fixed" or rather "balanced".

I actually agree with paShadoWn here that it's a good practice to have game mechanic prevent us from doing so.
Of course we can control ourselves from abusing it but that doesn't mean the game doesn't need any fix.
This issue is, however, not high on priority. I believe there are way more pressing issues to be fixed first.



feelotraveller -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/18/2013 12:43:02 PM)

Compared to retrofitting bases this 'exploit' is laughable. It consumes resources, ties up construction yards and restricts transport (not to mention the drain on fuel).

Really if you want free cash just open up the editor. [sm=Evil-210.gif]



Shark7 -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (6/18/2013 4:59:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: feelotraveller

Compared to retrofitting bases this 'exploit' is laughable. It consumes resources, ties up construction yards and restricts transport (not to mention the drain on fuel).

Really if you want free cash just open up the editor. [sm=Evil-210.gif]


Yep, like I said before this is a non-issue, and the easy way to fix it is simply not to do it.



Gas Can -> RE: Freighter exploit and millions of civ cash (1/11/2014 11:34:57 PM)

This actually brings a vary interesting aspect: A wealthy private sector should help boost your empire in many ways.
(1)They tend to spend more money on Space Stations and Luxury Station.
(2)More kids, cause they can afford it.
(3)More tolerant towards temporary high tax rate.
(4)Private patrol ships that only flies within the empire territory and is not controlled by the player.



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