Question on AI and ship designs (Full Version)

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MartialDoctor -> Question on AI and ship designs (6/19/2013 5:25:08 PM)

Hey everyone,

Just a question. If every race is given specific ship designs, will the AI use those as well? Or will they still use the default AI design criteria? Or, possibly, do they use a combination of the two?

I'm just curious as I'd like to know if using ship sets, and making my own, are worth the effort.

Thanks [8D]



dostillevi -> RE: Question on AI and ship designs (6/19/2013 8:43:55 PM)

I think you're talking about the designtemplates folder? As long as you match the templates to the techs the race is prioritizing, you should see each race differentiating its ship design. I'm not sure though how the game scales the components in the templates to smaller ships. I'm sure the modding guide with explain that when it finally comes out.. probably it just takes a percentage of the listed quantity until the ship is small enough to able to be built.



Fenrisfil -> RE: Question on AI and ship designs (6/20/2013 11:13:23 PM)

The design template system works reasonably well unless you want to use certain unique techs, which it has a tendency to ignore. The scaling seems to be based at around tech 4 size so it scales up above that and down before. Mostly that affects the capital ships (they can scale up quite a lot I've noticed, occasionally out of build-able design size).

You can also use the optional "design" folder for specific designs but to do that you have to design right the way down to tech zero and make sure the autodesigns are off for the individual ship types in the race policy. You get the exact designs you want, but it does result in less updating. It's very cool when it works, but probably not worth the effort for anyone but the most fussy. Personally with Shadows I only do this for a few key races and use the templates for everyone else.



kasper747 -> RE: Question on AI and ship designs (6/21/2013 6:10:12 PM)

I was looking for algorithms of this updating for the last few hours. And I think, I got now the code.

Components with free scaling:
Such like Support-Items: Gens and LifeSup are scaled automatically.

Components without scaling:
Most important of them: shields and fuel tanks
Also other small stuff like sensors.

I have not tested pods and other secondery weapons.

Components with scaleing (exception - armor)
These components are scalable only in one step and one time. One group can be reduced at ones by 30% to fit the availably space.
first engines => then beams => then torpedoes. (only tested this three. I think they go in the direction from top to bottom like they are wrote in the file)
If these groups was reduced by 30% and there are still not enough space, armor will be reduced one-by-one until its 0.

armor
If all the previous steps was made and the space is not enough, the design will appear as not scaled.




I'am thinking now to change this tamps to make tougher ships for AI and to fit more the strategy of races. Also i think in late-game they can use much more shields and armor.

I think placing more shields and less guns will help AI much. The ships will leave longer and he will have more of them. Normally AIs are better with more units. If some one have ideas about it, pls share.



MartialDoctor -> RE: Question on AI and ship designs (6/26/2013 7:00:03 PM)

Thanks for the replies everyone. I have some free time now and will mess with some design templates to see how the AI uses them.

I think it would be really cool to build effective and unique designs for the races. It would create both more of a challenge and make the AI ships more interesting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fenrisfil
The design template system works reasonably well unless you want to use certain unique techs, which it has a tendency to ignore.


What technologies does it tend to ignore? You aren't talking about the racial techs are you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fenrisfil
You can also use the optional "design" folder for specific designs but to do that you have to design right the way down to tech zero and make sure the autodesigns are off for the individual ship types in the race policy. You get the exact designs you want, but it does result in less updating. It's very cool when it works, but probably not worth the effort for anyone but the most fussy. Personally with Shadows I only do this for a few key races and use the templates for everyone else.


Yeah, this is what I was getting at. As you say, it would be tedious to make one for each race. It might be cool to have people pool their designs together, if there's interest in that.

When you say the autodesign, are you talking about the part in the race policy that states: "DesignUpgrade[Type]"?



Icemania -> RE: Question on AI and ship designs (7/1/2013 1:18:25 PM)

This is a great initiative MartialDoctor. A major first milestone would be more effective designs for any/all AI to generally increase game difficulty. I encourage the forum to contribute!




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