DaBigBabes vs. BigBabesLite? (Full Version)

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diamond dave -> DaBigBabes vs. BigBabesLite? (7/4/2013 2:19:57 PM)

Been playing the full campaign (Quiet China) for a little over a year now (work, family, and just the need to take a break has kept things slow). With the help of Saurdaukar's excellent primer (thank you!) I managed to make it up all the way to May 1945. Even though I had more than enough VP to declare total victory at the beginning of the year, I wanted to stick around long enough to at least experience the firebombing and the A-bombing of Japan. Trouble is, things have gotten to the point where I am effectively beating a dead horse. Checking the other side shows that, outside of some subs, subchasers, and a number of auxiliaries, there is virtually nothing left floating. Virtually all the combat ships, and almost all the merchant marine, has been sunk. Kamikazes aren't much of a threat unless my ships get too close to the home islands. I tried carrier raids, but Tokyo is stocked with an insane number of A/C and chews up anything I send over them, even B29's at night, then overwhelms my carrier CAP with multiple strikes until nothing's left, and finally the Kamikazes start racking up hits. Faced with this, and no real challenge anywhere else, I'm declaring victory and starting over.

Okay, after that overlong intro, here's my question. I want to restart a full Allied campaign against the AI (this time with China fully involved). I've been checking out the DaBigBabes and BigBabesLite scenarios and trying to decide which is best. I want to play the best game possible against the most challenging AI I can (yes, I know the AI is limited but I'm not ready to play a human) without having to completely nerf my forces just to balance the game. So which one would be most recommended?



Shellshock -> RE: DaBigBabes vs. BigBabesLite? (7/4/2013 2:25:32 PM)

I'm afraid if you really want a challenge you may just have to pick the Ironman scenario. I played the DaBabes against the Japanese AI and had much the same experience you just described above.



Shellshock -> RE: DaBigBabes vs. BigBabesLite? (7/4/2013 2:34:29 PM)

Something to bear in mind is that even with some of the features and restrictions that DaBabes introduces, is that you now have one full game under your belt. YOU are more experienced and will play better and with more knowledge of where the pitfalls and potentials are. The AI is still the same which means you will likely crush it sooner unless you impose restrictions on yourself.



Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: DaBigBabes vs. BigBabesLite? (7/4/2013 2:41:33 PM)

DaBabes is not supposed to be used vs AI... It will not handle the new rules and you will be beating the dead horse even sooner

Maximum challenge will be ironman scenario on "very hard"



diamond dave -> RE: DaBigBabes vs. BigBabesLite? (7/4/2013 2:55:17 PM)

I actually found things to be quite challenging up to 1943. Then the reinforcements started showing up, and the AI started getting stupid, mostly by sending surface forces piecemeal right into heavy LBA cover. Both Yamato and Shoho, not to mention numerous cruisers, died unnecessary deaths this way at the hand of swarms of B25's. Would like to see unfortunate errors like this corrected.



Shellshock -> RE: DaBigBabes vs. BigBabesLite? (7/4/2013 3:10:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: diamond dave

I actually found things to be quite challenging up to 1943. Then the reinforcements started showing up


That's the actual war for the Allies in a nutshell. [;)]

quote:



Both Yamato and Shoho, not to mention numerous cruisers, died unnecessary deaths this way at the hand of swarms of B25's. Would like to see unfortunate errors like this corrected.


Regrettable, the AI does not think. It does what it has been scripted to do and it won't stop until the time is expired or all assets in a script are dead. In the more historical scenarios, Japan simply does not have enough surface and air assets to adequately protect everything it needs to and the AI is unable to realize it's just throwing assets away. (But then sometimes the actual Japanese were guilty of the same thing.)



Symon -> RE: DaBigBabes vs. BigBabesLite? (7/4/2013 3:16:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: diamond dave
Okay, after that overlong intro, here's my question. I want to restart a full Allied campaign against the AI (this time with China fully involved). I've been checking out the DaBigBabes and BigBabesLite scenarios and trying to decide which is best. I want to play the best game possible against the most challenging AI I can (yes, I know the AI is limited but I'm not ready to play a human) without having to completely nerf my forces just to balance the game. So which one would be most recommended?

If you are an AI player, then BabesLite is the way to go.

BabesLite - FULLY and COMPLETELY compatible with all AI files for both Japan and Allies. If a set of AI files works with any stock GC scenario, they will work with BabesLite.

DaBigBabes - REASONABLE compatibility with the AI IFF playing Allies against Japan computer opponent. MARGINALLY compatible with the AI if playing Japan against Allied computer opponent. Designed primarily for PBEM/HotSeat play.

As people have mentioned, AndyMac has some very challenging AI GC scenarios. His latest Beta versions incorporate all the gameplay features of BabesLite as well as his own special brand of nastiness [;)]

Ciao. JWE



diamond dave -> RE: DaBigBabes vs. BigBabesLite? (7/4/2013 4:42:39 PM)

Thanks for the input. I'll try the Lite scenario and see how it goes.

I've been known to jump in and take over the Japanese side if the AI is getting really stupid, just for the sake of a little game balance. But usually when I let go of the controls, the AI goes back to screwing things up.

What I'd like to see are scenarios for Japanese players starting from about 1944 or mid-1943, when it became obvious to Japan that they were going to lose. The whole point would be to make it as costly as possible for the Allies to go on the offensive, perhaps to the point that they would get so weary of excessive casualties that they may allow a negotiated surrender, i.e. a Japanese "victory". I, for one, could be truly devilish as to the allocation of submarines and Kamikazes, but really don't want to spend time playing a full campaign from Dec. 7th and deal with all the headaches of the Japanese production system and logistics.



Numdydar -> RE: DaBigBabes vs. BigBabesLite? (7/4/2013 4:52:34 PM)

DaBabes does have an Ironman scenerio as well. That is what I am playing against the AI on Hard. Have not got very far though. It is also compatable with the AI files.

Also make sure you get the new AI files that were made just a few months ago. That might help too.



Mac Linehan -> RE: DaBigBabes vs. BigBabesLite? (7/4/2013 5:37:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

DaBabes does have an Ironman scenario as well. That is what I am playing against the AI on Hard. Have not got very far though. It is also compatible with the AI files.

Also make sure you get the new AI files that were made just a few months ago. That might help too.


+1 on this. Babes adds more to the mix - you will not be disappointed.

However, the bottom line is that you will enjoy whatever variant you decide to play - they're all good.

Glad to have you with us, Sir.

Mac



Symon -> RE: DaBigBabes vs. BigBabesLite? (7/4/2013 6:08:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: diamond dave
I've been known to jump in and take over the Japanese side if the AI is getting really stupid, just for the sake of a little game balance. But usually when I let go of the controls, the AI goes back to screwing things up.

Well, that's kinda how it goes [8D] The way the script thing works is that between April and June, you do this. Between August and October you do that. And so it goes, over and over. And over the entire Pacific theater and over 4 and a half years. And script step # 277, depends on 276, 275, 114, 112, and all the way back to # 7. It is a "feed forward forever" algorithm. It is NOT and CANNOT ever be "branch conditional to present". What you see is what you get.

Once you are in a situation, and the AI is doing something, it is possible to tone it down a bit by swapping sides, but the AI will go right back to it's initial instructions given the time. That's how it works. Once loaded, it cannot be changed.

Ciao. JWE



Sardaukar -> RE: DaBigBabes vs. BigBabesLite? (7/4/2013 7:42:16 PM)

DaBabesLite is really nice, thanks for contributors.



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