timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (Full Version)

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timmyab -> timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (7/13/2013 10:35:37 PM)

We started this game a couple of weeks ago.I think we should be fairly well matched so I thought I'd post a brief AAR to help the developers to assess whether the game needs rebalancing or not.
I'm not a great Axis player so I'm expecting a challenging game.

Turn 1
Turn one is the usual catalogue of mistakes and misfortunes without being a disaster.The technical challenge of the AGS opening got the better of me again,.The Soviet units South West of Rovno are only half trapped, they shouldn't get far though.The trouble started when 47th pz corps met stronger than usual resistance around Baranovichi which required me to send one of 24th pz corps divisions to assist.This left me short handed at Rovno.
I think the pockets should hold.Frankly I'll be disappointed if any of them are broken.


[image]local://upfiles/36871/BEA929450FAF4EF28CCFFCEC8CF0B422.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (7/18/2013 12:42:27 AM)

Turn 2

I'd planned to get some of pz group 4 across the Velikaya this turn but they had exceptionally bad MP rolls and air recon showed enemy strength to the South of Pskov.I knew there must be a weakness somewhere at this stage of the game so I sent an armored probe towards Velikie Luki which met with only light resistance.Sending panzer groups through here wouldn't be my first choice but there are some plus points if the area is left undefended.
1. It threatens the rear of the land bridge defenses.
2. It forces the Soviets to spread their defense over a wider area.
3. It gives you more strategic options and leaves the Soviet player uncertain of your long term intentions.
Having said that, I still consider this to be round one to Bobo.

Bobo puts up a good checkerboard in the South and progress is disappointing partly because of his good defense, partly because of more poor MP rolls and partly due to my own incompetence.The Dneiper looks a long way away at this point.
Most of 1st and 2nd pz group end up just South of Proskurov.They could have got a bit further but not enough to form a tight pocket and would have become vulnerable to being cut off.This position gives plenty of options for turn three and supply in this area should be good next turn so I'm hoping for some 40+ MP units to work with.
3rd pz corps just barely forces a bridgehead over the Dnestr and occupies the high ground to deny it to the enemy.Again this isn't to plan, I'd much prefer 3rd pz corps to have crossed the river further South.


[image]local://upfiles/36871/6D261B5087264217966020605EECE36F.jpg[/image]



Spielverderber -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (7/18/2013 1:28:25 AM)

Awesome screenshots! What are the moral settings in this game?



timmyab -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (7/18/2013 1:38:26 AM)

Everything is standard setting.



schascha -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (7/18/2013 7:07:07 AM)

I like your screenshots too[sm=00000947.gif]



Michael T -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (7/30/2013 5:50:04 PM)

Any progress?



timmyab -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (7/30/2013 8:04:01 PM)

I was away for a week and then Bobo's been away for two weeks.We're on turn six and I'm on the verge of bogging down.Historically accurate at least.



bigbaba -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (7/30/2013 9:03:37 PM)

gl timmy. bobo is a good opponent and played a good summer against me as axis player. if he plays the russians with the same level of skill then you get a good fight.



Michael T -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (7/30/2013 9:53:58 PM)

Good to hear the game is still going. Please update when you can [:)]



timmyab -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (7/31/2013 3:16:25 AM)

The next turn has just come back so it's game on.

Turn 3

Bobo maintains his grip on the land bridge.This leaves me uncertain of what to do next with my mobile forces to the North of Vitebsk.They have options to the South East, East and North.An MP shortage means that any push South East across the Dvina is going to be half-hearted and vulnerable to counterattack.North and East are equally tempting, but in the end I decide to grab a bridgehead across the river South of VL.Unfortunately I miscalculate here though.I think that 8th pz div has enough MPs to cross the river through ZOC, but I'm wrong.Exactly the same situation in the South had cost 12 MPs to cross, but here it costs 14.Maybe Velikie Luki adds an extra cost, that seems to be the only difference between the two cases.Whatever the reason it's very bad news because the bridgehead would have been dodgy even with 8th pz added, now it almost certainly wont hold.
41st panzer corps clears a fortified position in front of the Velikaya and rests while it waits for infantry support.47th and 57th pz do likewise.

In the South I also have three options.Either hook North where recon indicates weakness, smash my way through the checkerboard to the East or head further South where I calculate I can get a solid bridghead over the Yuzbny Bug.The Northern option is actually very tempting and it's even concievable that I could get a unit across the Dnieper just South of Kiev.I would be stretched very thin though and I don't like the area North of Zhitomir because it can turn into a cul-de-sac if you're not careful.In the end I opt for the safer Southern option, for one thing because it's closer to the rail head.
6th army is held up by stubborn resistance from three isolated divisions at Dubno which survive two 2:1 assaults.48th pz corps heads North to clear a path for 6th army and maintain a mobile threat in the area.


[image]local://upfiles/36871/14D124C4638F45FE97A19B47F911721C.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (8/10/2013 9:34:25 AM)

This is a very slow game, but it's still going.

Turn 4

The motorized division South of VL was thrown back across the river as expected.The threat from my armor in this area has seemingly weakened the land bridge defenses though.56th pz corps gets one division across the Dvina while 57th and 47th pz corps with infantry support smash through from the South threatening to cut off several Soviet divisions around Vitebsk, although about half of these will probably break out unless the 11 CV pz division from 57th pz corps gets lucky.After this screenshot was taken I strengthened this division to 14 CV by transferring a pioneer and a flamm battalion.I still don't think it will hold.
41st pz corps and part of 16th army are now safely across the Velikaya river.

In the South, air recon identified a small chance to cross the Dnieper just North of Cherkassy so I went for it.Unfortunately the Ruskies were too strong and now I wish I'd gone East to smash up the river line.Oh well, at least I've got a more central position now, I was starting to wander too far South for comfort.This was probably my last chance to rush the Dnieper, we'll have to fight our way across now.



[image]local://upfiles/36871/E5BC2B03FD5247F9BE7C3C624E693FA1.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (8/20/2013 10:29:57 PM)

Turn 5 North
A critical battle in the North goes badly against us when two divisions in a fortified swamp refuse to yield to a deliberate attack from a strong infantry corps.There's no option but to go around them which causes serious delays.
The Vitebsk pocket is sealed tight with nine victims left inside.
4th army gets a strong bridgehead across the Dnieper.
47th pz corps redeploys South of Mogolev.I'm taking pains to keep the position of this corps a secret.I'll probably do an HQ build up on it next turn and hold it in readiness for any opportunity to break out, either South towards Kiev or North towards Smolensk.Surprise is the key here.From my experience of playing the Soviet side, there's nothing more worrying than a pz corps that goes missing.



[image]local://upfiles/36871/49DDF2BA883E4739B791C39093E6B2F3.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (8/20/2013 10:37:54 PM)

Turn 5 South

There's a difficult decision to make in the South.
The defense between Cherkassy and Kirovograd where I want to cross is very strong and my infantry still haven't arrived in sufficient strength.I don't want to go South but air recon suggests that the Dnieper is undefended down there and 25th mot division can just make it across.In fact this division can cross but I choose to use it's MPs to flip hexes instead, believing that enemy units will be too far away to occupy the converted marshes around Kakhovka in their turn.
I'm now way too far South and at least one turn behind a reasonable schedule.
Odessa is defended.Two German divisions are dispatched to help out the Romanians.I'm not sure if this diversion of effort is necessary or not.


[image]local://upfiles/36871/B3DD60B20CD7486089158D24A744A795.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (8/26/2013 11:00:32 PM)

Turn 6 North

A better week for AGN with heroes of the Soviet Union thin on the ground.Five divisions including last weeks' heroes are cut off and doomed around Pskov.
The Finnish army traps it's three target Soviet divisions. I'm happy with that.

Bobo has decided to stand and fight in the center.It looks like this is going to turn into a real grind.My best hope of gaining mobility is 47th panzer corps which does a build up and now lurks out of sight in the woods and swamps NW of Gomel waiting for an opportunity.


[image]local://upfiles/36871/B1AFE074C08A4C16801C9487343C68A7.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (8/26/2013 11:05:49 PM)

Turn 6 South
Well it turns out that I was wrong about the converted marsh hexes around Kakhovka.Bobo managed to occupy them with two cavalry divisions.The one in the town was weak though and a hasty attack by the entire 24th pz corps dislodged it comfortably.25th mot division was all that I could get across (31 MPs for a 86+ morale unit.)This division is joined by 48th pz corps HQ and reinforced by two pioneer battalions and a stug battalion.
The rest of the armor fans out to the North East in search of another crossing point.The situation is actually starting to look pretty serious with most of 17th army still at least two weeks march away.My best hope is that the crossing to the South will draw some of the defenders away.


[image]local://upfiles/36871/D5A56993F3B049FE87E0357FE3D1DF61.jpg[/image]



Peltonx -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (8/27/2013 10:07:26 AM)

Wow that's a really poor showing in the north.

Center looks about average.

Looks like he is in trouble in the south also.

Good job.



timmyab -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (8/27/2013 12:52:57 PM)

He is me Pelton.And yes, I'm screwed.I've already started fortifying Berlin[:)]



821Bobo -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (8/27/2013 1:11:12 PM)

Actually I am not sure who's showing in the north Pelton meant. At least from the screenshot it looks like there is no Soviet resistance between Pskov and Leningrad. But that's just poor German recon [:)]



mktours -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (8/27/2013 4:32:47 PM)

great AAR with best pics. I want to know what tool you are using to do the Pictures, they are so beautiful, especially the arrows.



timmyab -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (8/27/2013 7:31:01 PM)

It's Paint.NET.It's free too.



mktours -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (8/28/2013 1:03:00 AM)

Thank you, I would try that software.[:)]
quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab

It's Paint.NET.It's free too.




timmyab -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (8/31/2013 9:01:46 PM)

Turn 7

We're starting to hit the wall now.The best I can do is remove the odd brick here and there, but in the long run it wont be enough.Lots of held results too this turn, guards units should be appearing soon.
A couple of rays of hope though:
47th pz corps finds some space and advances 150 km in a week.This success is soured though by a partisan attack near Minsk which will delay the Gomel rail line by one and a half weeks, and by a critical hold result caused by a reserve activation which prevents the Soviet forces guarding Kiev from being surrounded.
Further South, a hasty attack by 14th pz corps forces a bridgehead over the Dnieper just East of Kremenchug which is occupied in strength by 3rd pz corps.The Das Reich division adds extra protection to 3rd pz corps but isn't expected to hold.
In the Kakhovka bridgehead, 25th mot division is joined by the rest of 48th pz corps.This bridgehead isn't going anywhere fast but it is tying down substantial Soviet forces.
Odessa is assaulted with predictably dire results.
AGN plods towards the Luga with an air of impending doom.

[image]local://upfiles/36871/EE7EFC03AA4948478EE6A947233AD758.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (9/6/2013 10:50:09 PM)

Turn 8

The 47th pz corps breakout has forced a large scale withdrawal so this turn from Smolensk South is mainly about pushing up, regrouping and refitting.Bobo also decided to abandon his position in the deep South, probably to reinforce the front further North.
I think that this is the point in the game when some sort of game mechanic designed to tempt the Soviets forward would really help the feel of the game and get it conforming more to history.The German logistics would need taming a bit for sure and possibly Soviet counterattacking potential increased, but this would become a very interesting part of the game.
3rd, 14th and 46th pz corps just rest and refit this week.There's nothing useful for them to do so they might as well save the fuel for next week.I also want to delay commiting them in case of an opportunity to the South.48th pz corps heads East on a flag waving exercise.Hopefully the worry factor for Bobo of having a pz corps in this area will tie down a disproportionate number of his divisions.On the other hand if he ignores the threat then this corps could break through to strike at the Donbas.The corps is also in position to exploit a breakthrough in the Crimea, although this seems unlikely.
I've abandoned my attempt to take Odessa.Instead I've routed the loose division and I'm setting up for a siege with just one German division sitting idle.Hopefully I can take it in the snow turns with a big assault, or does it even matter?
Smolensk falls to 9th army which also pummels the Soviet defenses in front of Belyi with mixed results.Another turn with loads of held results, Soviet CVs often quadrupling.I'm trying to create tension for his forces in the VL bulge.I definitely don't want them there come the winter and he seems keen to hold on to the area.If he insists on holding on then 39th and 57th pz corps will head North to threaten the rear of the position.I've deliberately hidden 57th pz corps in Smolensk to create uncertainty.
56th pz flips hexes and is in position to assist North or South or even punch East (less likely).

Mixed results as well for AGN.Some shocking held results and some good retreats especially two reserve units routing in the Novgorod area.I wasn't intending to go that way but one reserve unit rout in particular made it tempting.I'll settle for the end result, it may even unhinge the Luga line with any luck.
Now that we're in the thick of it, Model takes charge of 1st corps.I can't see AGN taking Leningrad but it's important to maintain pressure up here to tie down as many units as possible.The bulge South of Novgorod is a worry, I just haven't got the strength to shift it.It mustn't be there come the winter or I'm doomed.
One strong German division is tasked with taking Tallinn.I'd like Tallinn (and Sevastopol) to be made more important in WITE2.

[image]local://upfiles/36871/F5C36E5742A841528B6E99939640F919.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (9/18/2013 2:08:09 PM)

I posted turn 9 a few days ago but it got deleted somehow so I'll have another go.
Turn 9

AGN
The worrying bulge South of Novgorod must have been worrying for Bobo as well because he's withdrawn behind the Polist river.This position is still too advanced for comfort, I'd like to have the Valdai hills before winter comes.
Novgorod falls to 1st corps and 41st pz corps makes painfully slow progress along the Volkhov with the river guarding it's right flank.Every bit of protection helps, even with CVs well into the thirties they are not certain to hold against a full scale counterattack.
16th army gains a tenuous hold on the East bank of the Luga.This bridgehead may well be eliminated but it's a useful distraction from the main attack.Alternatively he might decide to abandon the Luga, it's a close call either way I would think.
No major setbacks this turn with Soviet final CVs generally behaving themselves, i.e only doubling instead of quadrupling.An assault on Tallinn failed though.

AGC
More desperate chipping away at the wall in the centre.I've managed to remove five more bricks this turn.This small encirclement took the combined effort of three pz corps to give it a good chance of holding.
I had high hopes of a breakout North of Belyi at the start of the turn but the Soviet defenses there proved too strong.9th army continues to push forward in that direction, but a two corps attack on the main river line failed.



[image]local://upfiles/36871/3C15A5F552F24006A6FD981B2F63251D.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (9/18/2013 2:09:40 PM)

Turn 9 South
A good opportunity was wasted this turn.1st pz group had a great chance to trap most of the Soviets between Poltava and D-town.I carelessly failed to do any deep reconnaissance though and missed that cavalry division in the river bend.When one of my lead pz divisions bumped into it unexpectedly, a routine operation suddenly turned into mission impossible.If I'd known it was there I'd have been fine as well.GRRRR.
47th pz corps rests idle for another turn hidden in woods hexes.I'm hoping a gap will appear in front of it next turn as Bobo shifts units South.
11th army and 48th pz corps start to apply pressure South of Zaporozhye.Combined with the threat from the North I'm hoping that this will spark a panic.
Infantry MPs have been a problem for me in this game.Most often in the 8-11 range.I seem to remember them being more generous the last time I played the Axis side.


[image]local://upfiles/36871/DA51BA21936940988E6B6A9EDFF62D7F.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (9/18/2013 2:15:47 PM)

Turn 10 North
AGN continues it's slow grind towards Leningrad.I haven't completely given up hope of taking the city yet, It's still odds against though.41st pz corps will almost certainly be beaten back, LAH may even be routed.
9th army keeps shoving NE from the Belyi area but one stubborn Russian division refuses to budge.The pressure here has forced a withdrawal from VL which is good.
Four more divisions are surrounded, marginal if it will hold or not.


[image]local://upfiles/36871/EEAA7E14606441ADB081C04CD9E65AC7.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (9/18/2013 2:20:18 PM)

Turn 10 South
My logistics are feeling the strain in the South.A pocket attempt North of Kharkov fails and the Southern pocket is just short of being closed.


[image]local://upfiles/36871/5CCB189458F8406BA80131EA0B5AA653.jpg[/image]



821Bobo -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (9/18/2013 2:22:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab

I posted turn 9 a few days ago but it got deleted somehow so I'll have another go.


Matrix had hardware failure and they loaded the forum from backup.

quote:


AGN
The worrying bulge South of Novgorod must have been worrying for Bobo as well because he's withdrawn behind the Polist river.


Actually I was not worried but needed reinforcements in front of Moscow. The retreat released one(or 2, not sure) army which reinforced the "wall" [:)]



timmyab -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (9/25/2013 1:20:12 AM)

Turn 11
North
I get some decent infantry MPs in the North for a change which enables 1st, 2nd and 50th corps to clear the way for 6th pz division to occupy the important swamp hex South of the Neva river.I'll be well fed up if they get kicked out of it.I've started to transfer pioneers and artillery into 18th army, probably should have done so before.
The Finns are nearing the Svir river.

Centre
Another pocket attempt foiled by unexpectedly strong Soviet resistance.I should get three or four of them eventually.
Bobo supplies pocketed units from the air which gives them some impressive CVs.
12th corps plus 56th pz corps with one mot and one pz division have been sent North.I'm hoping to launch a surprise attack South of lake Ilmen.It was meant to be four mobile divisions but two got drawn into the fighting at Rzhev.I'll add a division from 41st pz corps and hope to push past the Valdai hills before Bobo can occupy them or, less likely, get behind the Volkhov line.

South
Kharkov is surrounded.This encirclement will definitely be broken but the pocket should eventually yield at least five divisions.The Poltava pocket is sealed tight and 48th pz corps moves North to trap three more.I'm not sure if Bobo will choose to break this pocket or retreat Das Reich, he may be able to do both.
The industry is still in Stalino.I'm not expecting to capture it but I'd like it to be moved as soon as possible.
47th pz got cut off South of Kursk so has to sit idle this turn.I'd like them to go NE towards Tula if only I could get some fuel into the tanks, but they're at the end of their logistical tether.


[image]local://upfiles/36871/988CE4D5AEE844D7A97A8E71B11A00D8.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: timmyab (Ger) vs 821Bobo (Sov) (10/1/2013 1:45:28 PM)

Turn 12 north
18th army clears another hex South of the Neva and takes up position for the crucial assault across the river.This is do or die, Leningrad must fall.
I've cancelled the surprise attack South of lake Ilmen, the Russian defenses there have been strengthened.
9th army crosses the river North of Rshev.Three divisions are trapped South of the city.


[image]local://upfiles/36871/BB20DD6F1A0945B5AE94C5411CE0F03C.jpg[/image]



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