Morale Settings Question (Full Version)

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Michael T -> Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 2:19:41 AM)

If I start a game with Axis morale at 100 then getting a Panzer/Mot unit to morale 88-90 is about the limit in most cases, no matter how many wins I get. But if I start a game with 105 Axis morale it seems very easy to get morale up to 99.

I would have thought that the cap might be around 93-95. Can anyone explain this?

Maybe 103 is enough?



Peltonx -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 2:44:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

If I start a game with Axis morale at 100 then getting a Panzer/Mot unit to morale 88-90 is about the limit in most cases, no matter how many wins I get. But if I start a game with 105 Axis morale it seems very easy to get morale up to 99.

I would have thought that the cap might be around 93-95. Can anyone explain this?

Maybe 103 is enough?


seeing I just PMed you the answer



Peltonx -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 2:44:47 AM)

I will explain



Peltonx -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 2:48:48 AM)

1st off you should be in the 90-93 range with all your panzer units not under 90 and have 12 + infantry divisions over 90 by end of summer with a 100 vs 100 setting. I been doing it for yrs.

Now this is only IF you can panzer blitzkrieg east as or close to as fast as MT. MT is still the best at that, but I am getting closer.

People simply do not watch morale closely enough, including MT.

100 to 105 is 5%

So give me 5% and you get on turn 8.



[image]local://upfiles/20387/84497193706742539AE2FCB0364FF53D.jpg[/image]



Peltonx -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 2:51:57 AM)

Remember people are running like little girls east from me so I simply farm the pickets and do not pocket them.

I will take 20+ retreats to a single surrender and day

Morale is [sm=happy0029.gif] of The Battle Field.


That answer your question MT?

[sm=00000436.gif]

The other thing is morale is working as designed FINALYYY.

The only thing broken is the Middle Earth rule of 10 hexes from the front and you get 50 morale



Michael T -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 2:59:51 AM)

I have done a test and even at 101 morale setting its easy to get to 99% morale with Pz/Mot. With 100 morale its a struggle to get beyond 90%.

I don't want a cakewalk no matter which side I play. And on the face of it even 101 morale setting is too much. Seeing a German Army full of Pz/Mot units at 99% is goin to be a cakewalk for them. So we go from a Red I win button to a Axis I win button.

That may be some peoples preference but not mine.

To be honest I don't know what to do now.

The stock settings favour the Reds. Adjusting Axis morale to just even 101 makes it too much in favour of the Axis.

[&:]



Peltonx -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 3:04:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I have done a test and even at 101 morale setting its easy to get to 99% morale with Pz/Mot. With 100 morale its a struggle to get beyond 90%.

I don't want a cakewalk no matter which side I play. And on the face of it even 101 morale setting is too much. Seeing a German Army full of Pz/Mot units at 99% is goin to be a cakewalk for them. So we go from a Red I win button to a Axis I win button.

That may be some peoples preference but not mine.

To be honest I don't know what to do now.

The stock settings favour the Reds. Adjusting Axis morale to just even 101 makes it too much in favour of the Axis.

[&:]


There is an easy fix, throw out the stupid Middle Earth rule of 10 hexes from the front you magicly get to 50 morale even though NM setting is 35 Romanians ect ect.

Who comes up with these rules?

How is that crap historical? Its like 1v1 = 2v1 based on nothing other then Middle Earth Magic.



Peltonx -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 3:12:18 AM)

Also infantry is more important then panzers in the long run.

GHC has to be strong all along the front.




Michael T -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 3:19:22 AM)

All I know is this, even just a 101 bump in Axis morale it is an Axis 'I win Button'.

I am going to do some more tests. Obviously there is some kind of 'butterfly effect' going on here.



Michael T -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 3:32:18 AM)

I started a 1942 CG with 101 Axis morale. I was able to easily get a bunch of non SS Pz/Mot XX up to 99% morale.

Anyone who thinks this is fair or realistic is kidding themselves. Obviously the morale settings have hidden effects we are unaware of.

Back to the drawing board I am afraid.



Spielverderber -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 4:26:58 AM)

Hm, this is interesting. So lowering SHC moral to 95 has a limited effect. Basically it guarantees the Axis a super start with almost zero losses and a nice moral boost. I'm assuming that new Russian units entering the map also have lower moral and it takes them maybe one extra turn to get to 50? Now, raising GHC moral to 105 means that after a couple of turns all German tank/mech units have close to 100% moral and it's a total cakewalk for the Axis.

Who would want to play like this? And don't come with the newbie shut up crap again. If all your units are at 99% morale even a veteran has no chance.



Michael T -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 4:40:25 AM)

I have based all my thoughts on the 105-110 Axis morale boost on what a couple of other guys have said, from their experinces. It is only now that it is being touted as a 'semi-offical' balancing tool that I have tested out. My own opinion now is as I said above.

I can only hope 2by3 correct the problem. I see no other solution now.




Spielverderber -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 5:03:54 AM)

When we play a campaign game we invest a lot of time and effort. We look forward to a wonderful and challenging game in which everyone has a chance. It is extremely frustrating to have someone temper with the settings and ruin the game for everyone else. You guys are doing just that. You were insisting in many forums that 105/95 was the new fair setting. I remember Pelton telling everyone that these settings were almost meaningless. Instead, now it is clear that the game is rigged with these settings. You guys are openly admitting it.

Just look at Pelton's last five games. It's silly! He cuts like a hot knife through butter with his tanks on steroids. I'm sure he has nothing but 99% morale tanks and mech units. And this is suppose to be fun? Thanks a lot for waisting my time! [:-]



Michael T -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 5:21:06 AM)

Look, I would never adjust the settings of a game without informing my opponent. Or testing the effect. Don't paint me with the same brush as some others. I am just the messenger.

Meanwhile more tests show that getting an INF XX up to 98% morale is not a problem either with a 101 setting.
I am curious what might be possible with the Rumanians. They are next on the list.



Michael T -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 5:47:58 AM)

I got a Rumanian INF XX up to 75 morale when I stopped. It seems that a morale setting of 101 means that there is no cap on gaining morale pts through winning battles. The extra 1% means that you always get 1 extra morale pt for winning a battle. So in theory with a setting of 101 Axis morale you could get your whole German Army up to 99% morale, and keep it there. Even the Rumanians could get to 99% morale. But I suspect there would be no Russians left on the map long before that was acheived.

Personally I am sorry if my initial support of this setting has influenced others to start games with it. I can only offer that I assumed that a setting of 105 simply meant NM was increased from 75 to 80. That assumption was wrong.



Peltonx -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 9:37:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I got a Rumanian INF XX up to 75 morale when I stopped. It seems that a morale setting of 101 means that there is no cap on gaining morale pts through winning battles. The extra 1% means that you always get 1 extra morale pt for winning a battle. So in theory with a setting of 101 Axis morale you could get your whole German Army up to 99% morale, and keep it there. Even the Rumanians could get to 99% morale. But I suspect there would be no Russians left on the map long before that was acheived.

Personally I am sorry if my initial support of this setting has influenced others to start games with it. I can only offer that I assumed that a setting of 105 simply meant NM was increased from 75 to 80. That assumption was wrong.



You might want to do a little more testing on 100 morale setting old boy.

Remember morale has never worked as designed until after 1.07



Spielverderber -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 9:49:49 AM)

quote:

I got a Rumanian INF XX up to 75 morale when I stopped. It seems that a morale setting of 101 means that there is no cap on gaining morale pts through winning battles. The extra 1% means that you always get 1 extra morale pt for winning a battle. So in theory with a setting of 101 Axis morale you could get your whole German Army up to 99% morale, and keep it there. Even the Rumanians could get to 99% morale. But I suspect there would be no Russians left on the map long before that was acheived.

Personally I am sorry if my initial support of this setting has influenced others to start games with it. I can only offer that I assumed that a setting of 105 simply meant NM was increased from 75 to 80. That assumption was wrong.


Thanks for doing the testing. It looks like GHC moral level of 101 or higher should be reserved for the AI. 100/95 might be a good solution because it gives the Axis player the chance to do the huge Lvov pocket.

I apologize for putting you on the same level with Pelton. [:D] I'm slightly upset because I just wasted 8 turns on a rigged game. I have very little spare time. Quite frankly, I find Peltons behavior shameful. He doesn't even tell his opponents up front that he changed the settings. That itself should make everyone suspicious. GHC moral level of 105 is a joke. I'm sure after a couple of turns he has nothing else but 99% tank and mech units. What's the point? All this just to humiliate an opponent? What bugs me most is that he is so good that he could surely beat all his last five opponents including myself on standard settings.



Disgruntled Veteran -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 10:03:44 AM)

Damn, I wished I had 105 morale settings when I started my game vs the Pro's. I need 75 morale Romanians[:D] .



Peltonx -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 10:21:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

Damn, I wished I had 105 morale settings when I started my game vs the Pro's. I need 75 morale Romanians[:D] .


Like I told you MT before crowing ask a pro about Morale

this is with setting 100. It took me 4 turns to get set-up.

and no I am not going to say how I do it.

you can see battles won lost, one unit I did not mess with until turn 5.

Getting above 90 with infantry is not magic when you know how. Like I told you but like everyone else you do not believe me so here is the proof. I have been getting 12+ infantry units 90 - 99 morale now for yrs. Sure its easyer now with 1.07, because the % to gain a point has been upped from 3% to 15% as has been posted.

Getting 99 morale on infantry units with a 100 setting is possible, getting 99 on SU units is possible if you use my defensive settings also.

Take a little more time MT and "mess" with stuff before claiming there is an issue with morale.

[image]local://upfiles/20387/961280B399F543359A9C834024193E16.jpg[/image]



Spielverderber -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 10:22:18 AM)

On GHC 105 you get the Romanians to 99 for sure. Killer mutant Romanians! And maybe Hungarians with a CV of 18? [:D]



Peltonx -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 10:26:11 AM)

You can do the same with Romania units



Peltonx -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 10:30:08 AM)

It looks like the 100 to 101 simply ups the chance of a gained pt.

So it is easyer to gain a point, but like I have posted you can do the same thing with 100 as 101 or 105, it simply takes longer.

BUT IT CAN BE DONE AND HAS BEEN BEING DONE FOR YEARS NOW BY ME.

Nothing broken its simply working as designed, which it was not before 1.07.

Whos the [sm=happy0029.gif] of Morale?



Peltonx -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 10:49:15 AM)

Ok here is my test using 100 setting.

at start 36th is 85 morale and the other 2 start at 90.

So again getting 99 with a 100 setting is easy. Its is faster at 101 or 103 or 105.

Also I was not totally set-up until the last turn of testing so most of the gains were in a single turn.

You can get all SU's to 99 using my defensive set-up

Who is [sm=happy0029.gif] of Morale?



[image]local://upfiles/20387/30AC5A5829964ED5AE9DC5AF42EA1A2C.jpg[/image]



Peltonx -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 10:56:44 AM)

As long as SHC keeps using checker boards or pickets to screen getting above 95 morale on any unit is easy no matter what the setting.

Why I have been saying GHC players should be getting a draw at min.

Morale is the biggest part of the game so once you get most of the German infantry over 80+ in 42 the lines will not be broken until mid-44 and that was with several bugs handy capping GHC. I have proven this as 3.5 million vs 9.5 million held the lines into March 44(with bugs).

The higher morale/exp lowers losses ect ect as with everything this has a snow ball effect.



Manstein63 -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 11:46:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T


Personally I am sorry if my initial support of this setting has influenced others to start games with it. I can only offer that I assumed that a setting of 105 simply meant NM was increased from 75 to 80. That assumption was wrong.


Michael have you tried running SHQ @100 & GHQ @101-05? The higher chance of a Axis moral gain might be mitigated by the more robust soviet units
Manstein63



Peltonx -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 12:00:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Manstein63


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T


Personally I am sorry if my initial support of this setting has influenced others to start games with it. I can only offer that I assumed that a setting of 105 simply meant NM was increased from 75 to 80. That assumption was wrong.


Michael have you tried running SHQ @100 & GHQ @101-05? The higher chance of a Axis moral gain might be mitigated by the more robust soviet units
Manstein63


my tests were at 100 vs 100, but you make a good point.

if you have less units to pick on it will take longer, but the chances are the same.



Michael T -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 12:38:53 PM)

Pelton from the look of it took your 1st Pz XX took 64 wins with no defeats to get to 98.

With a setting of 101 it takes no more than about 12 wins to go from 85 to 99.

Also I doubt you could get a INF XX to 99 morale. But with 101 you can do it in 20 wins if you start from 80 morale.

You are way wrong on this issue. Any morale setting above 100 is an I win for the Axis, and you know it.



Spielverderber -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 12:58:33 PM)

Thank you for calling him out on it. Believe me, I don't want to cause trouble. I love this game and I would like to keep playing it.



SigUp -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 1:09:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spielverderber
100/95 might be a good solution because it gives the Axis player the chance to do the huge Lvov pocket.

I think you are missing the issue here. MT for example can do the extended Lvov opener without problems, even on 100 for the Soviets. The problem is the subsequent turns; with the corrections of 1.07 it is more than easy to put out hordes of 50+ morale Soviet units onto the map, which is a real killer for the Germans in 1941, as those units practically don't rout. The question should be, how quickly the morale for units 10+ hexes away from the front on refit rises. As far as I understood it, Pelton claims that even on Soviet 95 the rise is as fast as on 100. If this is true, morale 95 for the Soviets is meaningless.

EDIT: In my game against the AI with German morale on 100 I got 78th Infantry Division from 80 up to 97 in 16 battles (16-0). On the other hand a division like 1st Infantry Division needed 23-0 to get up from 90 to 97. Similarly for 21st and 30th Infantry Division. 12th Panzer Division rose from 85 to 96 in 25-0, 20th Panzer went from 75 to 86 in 15-0, the 18th Panzer did the same with one more victory.



Peltonx -> RE: Morale Settings Question (7/23/2013 2:24:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Pelton from the look of it took your 1st Pz XX took 64 wins with no defeats to get to 98.

With a setting of 101 it takes no more than about 12 wins to go from 85 to 99.

Also I doubt you could get a INF XX to 99 morale. But with 101 you can do it in 20 wins if you start from 80 morale.

You are way wrong on this issue. Any morale setting above 100 is an I win for the Axis, and you know it.


Your simply wrong which if and I mean if you look at the all the data (Sigup) now and I am sure I can get some back up from others who are interested in looking at all the data an not what your opinion is about the issue.

Your making wild claims that's its impossible to get 99 morale with 100 settings on MoT and Tanks units, which is flat out BS as I am others have posted its easy to do.

Posts FACTS aka data to back up your silly claims.

More data and less cow manure, you have newbies like Spielverderber believing you manure instead of the data.



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