Ancien/Medieval Wargames (Full Version)

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timc -> Ancien/Medieval Wargames (2/24/2001 1:02:00 AM)

Does anyone know of an ancient/medieval wargame similar to Steel Panthers? I've looked (briefly)at some of the real-time strategy games (like Age of Empires and the Cossack demo), but the tactical combat is so abstracted, uncontrolled and silly that I can't stand them. I've got Medieval 2, which is OK as far as it goes, but is seriously flawed by the lack of a random battle generator or a campaign. Also the scenario editor is very clunky. I've looked at the Great Battles games, but once you play through all the scenarios, you're done. The most enjoyable game of this type (for me) has been Lords of the Realm II (Yes.) despite the fact that the combat is cartoon-like, at least you don't have catapults wandering around on their own smashing cavalry units (like in AOE). A turn-based ancient/medieval tactical game similar to Steel Panthers or a turn-based ancient/medieval strategic/tactical game similar to Space Empires IV (a really fun game) would sell at least one copy. To me. Anybody else interested?



BlitzSS -> (2/24/2001 1:11:00 AM)

I don't know why you say about the Great Battles "once you play through all the scens, you're done". They do have an editor and between all the games there are a lot of scens plus there is an active following, so the PBEM list is strong.



timc -> (2/24/2001 1:35:00 AM)

BlitzSS, understand Great Battles has a scenario editor (as does Medieval 2) but I would like a game like SPWAW in which you could click "Battle" pick Mongols vs. Hungarians in 1270 A.D. and go.



DoubleDeuce -> (2/24/2001 1:49:00 AM)

Timc. You must be psychic. I was just thinking about that the other day. I was heavily into D&D and have always looked for MOD's for games like Age of Rifles, etc covering this topic. No luck. What Matrix has done with the SP engine and SPWAW in marvelous, outstanding, incredible ASO. They have given us the tools to just about redesign the entire game to suit our own needs. SPWAW comes with or is compatible with editors galore (OOB, Map, graphics, etc). I guess if someone had the time (and talent) they could design and modify the basic game to cover any time period (historical or fantasy). Only thing you couldn't really change is the code/programming in the game so you may wind up with alot of strange results or occurances. Either way it would be a monumental task but probably do-able. ------------------ "Double Deuce on the Loose" http://www.aspmall.com/ddmain/



timc -> (2/24/2001 2:00:00 AM)

Double Duece, Amen to the praise for the people at Matrix games. SPWAW is absolutely fantastic. I think that's why I want other games to be like it. I'm spoiled.



mogami -> (2/24/2001 6:46:00 AM)

Hi, WOW you read my mind...For quite sometime I have been looking at a way to use SPWAW's map generator, and other features but redo the weapons/ob's for ancient warfare (specificly Punic wars) Play a long campaign. What stops it is that there is no hand to hand. And the combat formulas would need to be redone. I believe with the right fiddling SPWAW's system could be applied to almost any period of history. (Would that not be great?) Buy a core of Spartans or Athenians, Greeks or Trojans, Romans or........Napoleonic combat.....Civil War....WWI.... almost anything with the right OB's and weapon tables. The map and battle/scenario/campaign generators would work in any battle where 50 meters per hex would work. (might need some new terrian) Of course some artistic person would have a lot of work doing icons!!! ------------------ I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!



troopie -> (2/24/2001 6:55:00 AM)

The problem with warfare before the late 19th century is, formations. Infantry and cavalry had to be in formations to be effective, and keep in formation. The phalanx, the shield wall, the three line, the pike sqauare with harquebus backing, all examples of formation that SPWAW SFAIK can not model. But go ahead and prove me wrong. I would love to see you do it. And purchase the results. And for late 19th cent warfare, indirect arty fire, open order, repeating rifles, the SP engines can do that very well. I'm creating Boer war units in SPWAW. I have to have them fight in 1931, but the result should be a lot of fun. troopie ------------------ Pamwe Chete



mogami -> (2/24/2001 7:21:00 AM)

Hi "And for late 19th cent warfare, indirect arty fire, open order, repeating rifles, the SP engines can do that very well. I'm creating Boer war units in SPWAW. I have to have them fight in 1931, but the result should be a lot of fun." I have Mukden and Port Arthur battles I did using SPWAW. (Both are terrible bloodbaths) ------------------ I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!



timc -> (2/27/2001 12:06:00 AM)

Mogami and troopie, you've found the two long poles in the tent: hand-to-hand and formations. This is where it's such a shame that Medieval 2 doesn't have either a campaign or a random battle generator. It does have formations and hand-to-hand weapons and armor values. About the Boer War: Did either of you ever play those scenarios in Age of Rifles? That's a good game, with excellent editors, but for some reason it never held my interest like SPWAW.



mogami -> (2/27/2001 2:13:00 AM)

Hi, All I need is a programmer with lots of free time and who doesn't need any money, and my "Punic War" game could be finished HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ------------------ I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!



halstein -> (2/27/2001 3:58:00 AM)

Hi. I have also wondered if there were any good medieval/ancient wargames. Preferbaly something in SP-style. Especially one, where I can run around with Late Roman Cataphracts. Ideally I would have it cover up to about 1500, as this is when guns becomes common. Wish-list: SPAncient&Medieval(up to 1500), SPBlackpowder (1500-1840), SPAgeofRifles (1840-1930, something like this migth be in progress, I think), SPWAW(1930-1949), SPMW(1950-2010), SPFutureWars(2010-) [img]http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/s/cwm2/lurk.gif[/img] ------------------ Halstein



troopie -> (2/27/2001 7:18:00 AM)

Yes timc, I have played the Boer war scenarios in AOR. I have played most of the scenarios in AOR. It was my second computer wargame, Tanks! was my first. And it's still on my HD after three years. AOR has three major flaws IMHO. 1: You can only fire once in a turn. This means that while things like QF Krupps and Mausers are modeled partially (Through greater lethality) they are not modeled completely. 2: you can't fire indirectly. 3: You can't take open order. Which you do when facing things like quick firing Krupps and Mausers. Other than that, it's the best 19th century wargame ever made. I hope Matrix can sign Norm Koger to do AOR2 with event triggers, indirect fire, armoured vehicles, and extended to 1930 for WW1 troopie ------------------ Pamwe Chete



Hunpecked -> (2/27/2001 7:50:00 AM)

Players looking for a Middle Ages wargame might want to try Shogun: Total War. It portrays the struggle of rival clans for control of Japan in the 1500s. The strategic game is only so-so, but the battles are superb, with archers, spearmen, swordsmen, cavalry and (later) arquebusiers operating in real time (but pausable for issuing orders) in a variety of formations over 3D terrain. Not much resemblance to SPWAW, though, except in the attention to detail. For more information, check out www.totalwar.com.



Possum -> (2/27/2001 10:48:00 AM)

Hello. I have fond memories of Sword of Aragorn. A CRPG/Fantasy wargame where you got to design your own army companies. You recruited the warm bodies, bought the equipment, and then spent up to several months training them. The economic model meant that you could only afford a small number of well equiped & trained men, where as pesant levies with spears were easy & quick to raise, and you could afford lots of them.(relativly) They also died easy, but then having your elite heavy horse company attack a dragon is also a good way to get them (the horsemen) all killed. It also had, I think, for the time, a very good combat system. with stacking, formations, faceing, weapon reach, morale, experience, fatigue, leaders, terrain effects, height, oppertunity fire/combat, shock effects, etc... An now that I think about it, a good economic model, but the only things you could do as Ruler to effect economics, was tax rate, conscription rate, and what area of the economy you would/could throw money at in the hopes it would improve.



Arralen -> (2/28/2001 8:21:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Hunpecked: Players looking for a Middle Ages wargame might want to try Shogun: Total War. .. Not much resemblance to SPWAW, though, except in the attention to detail.
And of course the absolutly crappy AI [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Really, folks, stay away from that game - they spend 1/2 their money on advertising, 1/2 on graphics and guess how much on AI ?? And, after all, it's very much like the board game "Shogun" (aka "Samurai" aka "Samurai Sword" aka .. dunno whatsoever) from MB, at least as far as the strategic level goes. Found it most promising and was bitterly disappointed ... sadly, could have been a classic.. Arralen



Dedas -> (2/28/2001 10:08:00 PM)

Hey guys! Wouldn’t it be great if we could cooperate in making a mod to SPWAW like the one you are talking about. This is something Im really burning for to do and would dedicate all my free time in make our dreams reality. What do you say?! Lets gather our ideas and experiences and start making the dream come true! If you want something real much you are unstoppable, that is my view of life and here we are, an opportunity not to be lost! This starts a new era in SPWAW, the mod making! Dedas at your service forever! All interested send me E-mails and we can talk about it! dedas@telia.com ------------------ Glory to the brave



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