Taking Rabul in early September '42??? (Full Version)

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Thurmonator -> Taking Rabul in early September '42??? (1/14/2003 2:08:56 AM)

Hello avid players,

This being my first post requires some intro stuff. Firstly, thanks to Matrix and 2 By 3 for making such a wonderful wargame. I remember putting hours and hours (and more hours) into a game called Guadalcanal, by Gary, and put out by SSI, on my Apple IIe, which spurred many future trips to the library to find books and info about the Pacific theatre in WW2. Well, here I am, what 15 years later, or should I say, two marriages and three kids later, playing the same basic game, albeit much improved and expanded with 15 more years of experience under the developers' collective belts.

I cannot wait to see War in the Pacific, and would love, love, love to see a remake of North Atlantic '86 with the kinds of additions that you've made with UV.

With that now said, let me turn to my experiences with my first game: Scen.17 - playing as the US vs. AI IJN, all historical settings at and 100% ship commitments. This may somewhat read like an AAR, but there's more...

May 42 - Moved as many ground units as I could to PM from Australia, to protect it from invasion. Avoided Jap CV's and didn't worry about Lunga or Tulagi yet. By the end of May, Japs had taken Buna and Gili Gili. My CVs had a few small scraps with Jap CVs and came away a little bruised but usable. I didn't sink any of his but I did damage a few.

June 42 - Using the built-up, heavily reinforced base of PM, now with B-17 support, in early June, I recaptured Gili Gili and Buna with the 7th Australian division and some elements of the New Guinea Force and the 3rd division. Supplying bases early on is a problem, but that will alleviate itself in time with more AK's and AP's on the way. With the arrivals of 2 more carriers, I commence to reinforce Lunga and start building up Tulagi, which although undefended, the Japanese did not endeavor to capture as of yet. Well it seems that I beat them to it as the first major Carrier vs. Carrier battle happened while I was defending my transports at Lunga. It was 5 on 5 as far as I could tell, and the US came out victorius with 2 CVL's sunk on the IJN side, and the Lexington put out of commission, but not sunk, on the US side. The Japs retreated leaving their transports defenseless. I sunk many during those few days. In New Guinea, not much action, just getting the supply lines worked out, and reinforcing PM and GG with Air Groups.

July 42 - Although the Japs caught me once with a night raid to Lunga, I learned their trick and slowly starting creaming their transports with nightly raids of my own into the Shortlands. with the Lex gone and the Yorktown joined up with the other carriers, I had a good many DD's to work with. Most of the time, I would catch APs docked, and I racked up the kills, but a few times, they had nice Surface Combat TF's waithing for me, putting a hurting on my TF. So by the end of July, my bombardment TF's were down to a few DD's. But that was OK as the 1st Marine Division was coming to town. I also moved SOPAC to Lunga and SWPAC to PM for the needed support troops.

Early August 42 - Sent full 1st Marine division into Shortlands. Using 5 carriers as a screening force, what was left of the Air Force from all the bombardments of the Shortlands was no threat to my invasion forces. By the time that the Japs knew what had happened , they scrambled their available CV's which took the hammer this time, and I managed to sink 2 more enemy CV's with very little damage to my own, only the Yorktown having to go back to PH. The Shortlands defense force was no match for the entire 1st Marine division with elements of the Americal division thrown in. I base all of the Lexington's and Yorktowns's planes on the Shortlands, and retreat 2 CV's back to Tulagi to refuel.

Late August 42 - With two new Australian divisions in Brisbane, I move one along with the New Guinea forces up to Lae, with two CV's in support released from duty over at Shortlands using the now numerous B-17s in PM to pound the heck out of that airfield, negating any air defense for the groud troops there. Lae falls to our forces, and we begin chaseing the remaining Japs around the region capturing all the other bases in that area. After Lae is secure, I send elements to Wewak and the other few bases along the northern New Guinea coast, and capture them all. Beyond some remaining troops that fled their bases, New Guinea is free of Japanese presence by September 1, 1942. Across the sea, at a very lightly defended Tulagi, the Jap AI makes a daring attempt to take the strategic port, but looses another CV and more transports in the process; mainly because of the 2 US CV's still in Tulagi, as well as a lot of LBA at Lunga and the Shortlands.

Questions???
Early September 42 - With New Guinea and the Shortlands taken care of, the question is, should I try to go ahead and take Rabaul? I have almost 2 infantry divisions with armor and the works all loaded up on AP's and ready to go. Do I reinforce my existing bases for an expected counter-attack? Build up new bases like Buka, that are closer to Rabaul? Or Take one of the two other bases on the same island as Rabaul? Or should I just go for Rabaul now?

At this point in the game, I have sunk 3 CV's, 2 CVL's, 2 CA's, 2 CL's, ~15 DD's, ~12 TK's, ~75 AP's. The Japs have sunk 3 CA's, 1 CL, ~20 DD's, ~4 AO's, and ~20 AP's. With that many AP's lost on the Jap side, can they mount an effective invasion at any time in the future? With 5 CV/CVL's gone, and not too many LBA at Rabaul, what would you do? Remember this is my first game, so I don't know what more the Japs will be throwing at me, but at this point, it seems as though I am winning very easily.

I will be truthful and say that in learing the game, I have done a few savegame reloads, but typically only when I made some newbie mistake in learning the interface and commands. No more though, as I have sufficiently learned the game to the point that I no longer want to reload.

I am looking forward to PBEM play, but I want to finish this first vs. AI game before I PBEM.

Thurmonator

Ps : I thought it was funny that I had two squadrons of B-17s show up without the planes, and no replacements on schedule for the B-17s. I guess these were units that I withdrew, that are coming back even though they do not have the replacement planes yet.

Also, really, how neccessary is it bring ground units back to Noumea or Brisbane? I mean, even a tired outfit would be better than no outfit in defending a base. It only seems to make sense for supply issues, and that would only be later in the game when there are a lot more troops available to be thrown around, and not enough supply available to bases far away.




Thurmonator -> (1/14/2003 2:25:15 AM)

BTW, I don't know why my post double posted, but I do apologize for it, cause I'm sure I probably did something to cause it. Or maybe it is just my ego??? And indeed, it is spelled Rabaul. I thought Rabul looked funny.




Admiral DadMan -> Re: Taking Rabul in early September '42??? (1/14/2003 2:33:59 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Thurmonator
[B]BTW, I don't know why my post double posted, but I do apologize for it, cause I'm sure I probably did something to cause it. Or maybe it is just my ego [/B][/QUOTE] Go into the other thread you posted, click the "edit" button at the bottom of your post. When you reach the edit screen, click the "delete" box, and then click the "delete now" button to the right.

As far as strategy, Rabaul isn't going anywhere, secure staging bases first.




The Gnome -> (1/14/2003 3:04:24 AM)

Don't forget to mine and station PTs at your forward bases. The IJN will attempt to use its advantage in surface ships to bombard your base. I lost a lot of aircraft needlesly my first game or two until I started using this a as a counter-measure.

As far as Rabaul, I sent the 1st and 2nd Marine divisions in after starving and bombarding rabaul for a couple of weeks and that seemed to work well.




pasternakski -> (1/14/2003 6:20:43 AM)

Put plenty of DMS and MSW in your invasion and bombardment TFs. You'll get lit up if you don't. In the alternative, if you have suppressed the Japanese LBA, send them in ahead of time to sweep, sweep, and sweep again...




Thurmonator -> Well, I'm glad I waited. (1/15/2003 11:39:09 PM)

I guess I was a bit foolhardy to think that I should just waltz into Rabaul with one division+ and be able to sustain them in combat. I decided to reinforce some key new bases with my already loaded troops; some at Dobadura(sp?) and the majority at my new base in Farshaven(sp?). I want to eventually base some bombers there, and have already moved some bombers into Dobadura.

The extra month, during September, will allow for some critical pre-invasion operations, such as clearing out Surface Combat TF's, and Bombarding the Airfield. I'm getting some nice coordination between my Marine F-4F's in Buka and the 17's out of PM. I will eventually move the 17's to Dobadura, for shorter trips. It also allows for another round of supply missions once all the transports dropped their troops. When they drop their supplies, I'm going to load up the 3rd Div in PM, the 7th Div in GG, the freshly dumped 41st Div in Farshaven, and the Americal division in Lunga. I'll keep the defenses strong in Buka, Shortlands, and Lae.

4+ divisions should do the trick right? I'm shooting for a Oct.1 Invasion date. Pearl Harbor just released my first 2 BB's, so they should come in handy, as well as my 4 CV's.

One AI oddity??? I moved a 2 CV task force to 1 hex south of Rabaul, so I could pound the hell out of them, and too my pleasant surprise, the proximity of my carriers automatically forced the retreat of all the IJN ships at Rabaul, to a hex or two outside of port, WITHOUT ANY CAP; so without the Zeros, they were sitting ducks for my TBF's and SBD's. It seems to me that they should have stayed in port, not only for the CAP protection, but also for the protection of the airfield and port from bombardment TF's. What do you guys think?


Thurmonator




rcwkent -> (1/15/2003 11:57:14 PM)

[QUOTE]One AI oddity???[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]What do you guys think?[/QUOTE]


Thurm,

I think you should get in a PBEM game ASAP!!!
The AI will only teach you very very bad habits that
will get you slaughtered against humans. So jump into the deep end!!

Dick




thantis -> (1/16/2003 2:53:30 AM)

You're going to need a lot more than a couple of divisions to take Rabaul that early. Since you took Shortlands so early, the AI will stack Rabaul with just about every combat unit coming down from Truk. I attempted the same assault (bypassing Bonis & Buka) around the same time with 25,000 men & got my clocked cleaned by more than 60,000 Japanese troops waiting for me.

You would definitely need to secure the beach south of Rabaul as a retreat spot if your attack does not go well. Be careful, the nearer you get the Rabaul, the more dangerous the Betty's & Nell's get to your ships (especially the transports).




Thurmonator -> (1/16/2003 3:34:54 AM)

Well, that does make some sense. Although, my recon reports are only showing 4 INF Brigades at Rabaul currently. I'll guess that the fortification level is 9 and so it probably will take more than three divisions. Plus, my recon could be wrong, as it ususally is.

How about this:

Rabaul Invasion Force

3rd Division, full - Leaves PM virtually undefended
6th Division, 1 Brigade(only one in theatre)
7th Division, full - Leaves GG virtually undefended
32nd Division, full - Still leaves New Guinea Force in Lae
41st Division, full - Farschaven(sp?) doesn't need a defense yet
1st Marine Division, 3 INF Brigades - Paratroopers will secure beach south of Rabaul, flying out of Buka. That leaves Americal Division to defend Shortlands and the Marine Raiders and a 2nd Marine Division Brigade defending Buka.
2 Armor Battalions
5 Combat Engineer Battalions to take care of Fortifications
And:
4 CV's, 2 BB's and 6 CA's plus a plethora of DD's
With:
Level Bombers from PM, GG, Dobadura, Shortlands all attacking Rabaul's Airfield. (I figure why attack the port before invading, since any anchored ships are sunk anyway upon capturing)

Now, Japan might have pilled tons of troops into Rabaul, but I have my doubts because of the large number of AK's that I have sunk so far. At this point in the scenario, I'd bet that Japan is going to have some major land assets coming into play very soon. So, even if there aren't 60,000 troops in Rabaul right now, there will be soon if the IJN continues to hold the base.

Which leads to my conundrum...if I go on Oct.1, I'll have to leave a lot of key bases open to invasion, but would the Japs even attempt any other invasion instead of defending against the invasion force in Rabaul (really, with all my LBA, they probalby couldn't get too close to any of my formerly frontline, now rear area bases (PM, GG, Tulagi, Lunga)).

If I can capture Rabaul by early October, well, I guess all I have to say is - I need to PBEM because the AI in my first ever game (although, I played the hell out of Guadalcanal in 1984 and 1985) is being found to be pretty lacking.


Thurmonator




Veldor -> Earliest Rabaul Occupation (1/16/2003 4:50:35 AM)

So what is the earliest anyone has managed to "capture" Rabaul?? Mine is Mid-Late November sometime (AI game of course), I'd have to check my save for the exact date.. I hadn't done the absolute best in the game, I had taken every original base that the Japs had put anything at.. Shortlands, Wewak, Gasmata, Lae, etc... and they started building up just about anywhere else they could... But Rabaul was pretty "stacked"... They still had a few carriers and good air support... I couldnt manage enough bombardment to keep them fully grounded long enough, I kept running out of supplies/fuel at Shortlands.. So I lost nearly every AP/AK I had and a bunch of DD/AV as fasttransports..

But I took it, and after that looking at the score... I wonder if its not worth any amount of loss... I can't see how the Japs could ever win now... I have enough DD's left to run basic supplies to bases until more AP's show up... And with the ground losses for the Japs at Rabaul (I did cut them off on the beach)... And all the planes gone...

Shouldn't that be auto-victory for the allies??????




Thurmonator -> (1/18/2003 5:37:56 AM)

So, here are the results of the my go-ahead invasion of Rabaul.

I used Lae and the Shortlands as my staging areas with the largest (25 ship convoy of all AKs and APs) being 1 hex south of Shortlands. One question? Is there a way to get your loaded transports to go to a new port and not start auto unloading?? I hate having to park my ships offshore not being able to stay under cover of local CAP. Am I missing something with controlling my transports?

Meanwhile, while I was loading up about 60,000 troops with all my available transports, I sent one of my 2 CV TF's and my new BB TF up to pound Rabaul's port. THEN came my first big mistake...forgeting to order my carrier planes into operation after having them in Stand Down. Luckily, only one strike force attacked my TF, but that was enough to lay 2 bombs onto the Hornet. Boy was I pissed at myself, and that made me wish that there was some kind of minimal AUTO-CAP. Come on, what carrier TF commander would sail into harms way with all his fighters in the hanger, even if the Admiral on high had not sent the order down to defend themselves!

Anyway, the Hornet wasn't all that damaged...yet. I guess the smell of blood in the water brought out some Jap subs and one got fish in her side on 9/28/42. I had to detach her and send her back to port. Unfortunately, her planes were unable to change bases. I needed thjose planes, even if she had to go back to Pearl. Next day, on her way to Shortlands, two more fish. Then the message, CV Hornet sunk. ****, my first CV loss, with her entire compliment of the most of the best pilots the navy had.

Then the next big error, I parked the Enterprise in Rabaul for air cover for the bombardments by two TFs. Well, I guess the orders got screwed up, because they both ran back to the Shortlands when dawn broke, but the CV TF stayed. THATS when I met the Yamato in surface combat. Slight damage was done to the IJN fleet. I lost 3 CA's, 1 CLAA, and 4 DD's, but **** if not one shell touched the Enterprise. Surprised, joyous, yet sad. It had beed a costly defense, but they allowed the Enterprise to leave the scene unharmed. She then joined up with the Wasp and Saratoga for the invasion.

Zero hour was on 10/5/42. I had captured the southern Beach near Rabaul by fast transport a few days earlier. I landed about 40 AK's and AP's on that day. Their coastal batteries were a bitch, but over all, I only lost about 4 AP's and about 8 more damaged beyond local repair. After landing 45,000 troops, I started attacking on 10/7/42. I captured Rabaul and 35,000 Jap troops on 10/9/42. And so it continues...

Thurm




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