RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (Full Version)

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Ketza -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/8/2013 6:10:03 PM)

Turn 9 end central - I broke the pocket again but had to commit the big dawg divisions to do it. He will pocket the lot again but he is tied up in the center for another turn. His 2 Panzer balls are somewhat contained for the moment.

[image]local://upfiles/23687/807E1F1CB8C04A1A9482555F5D33E530.jpg[/image]



Ketza -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/8/2013 6:12:44 PM)

Turn 9 end south - As his Panzers romp along the shores of the Black sea some local attacks are launched against some of his exposed infantry divisions.

[image]local://upfiles/23687/B17C25478E614BC182C94CB9028A89CF.jpg[/image]



Ketza -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/8/2013 6:16:17 PM)

Ten end south attacks - As the Soviet army gets a little tougher I am making more and more attacks:

[image]local://upfiles/23687/A5A6AC249FED4604B0980BD9A08ADCB7.jpg[/image]



Ketza -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/8/2013 6:16:57 PM)

Turn 10 South offensive - Not a full scale offensive like we will see in the Blizzard but because he leaves some infantry exposed we get some easy wins thanks to the 2-1 rule.

[image]local://upfiles/23687/CE74438D742346DE8291BE06D244E9AB.jpg[/image]



Ketza -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/8/2013 6:19:07 PM)

Ten end south - He continues to cause trouble near the black sea. Everything is out of D and Z town. I have been moving as much HI as I can as well.

[image]local://upfiles/23687/D3B0CABDD98A47BE8034972E5FBF4D33.jpg[/image]



Ketza -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/8/2013 6:20:24 PM)

Ten end central - I break the pocket again. The 2-1 rule lets some focused attacks succeed. His Panzer are visibly weak from all the fighting as well. My higher CVs are taking a toll. I doubt I will break the pocket again. He wont clean it up until turn 12 or 13. The divisions that will be lost are mostly unready and they will have served a good purpose in a 3 or 4 turn delay in a vital section of front.

[image]local://upfiles/23687/4410F5FB9CEB42CE817FB0932A04C5B8.jpg[/image]



Ketza -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/8/2013 6:22:40 PM)

ten end north - No real change - I did pounce on a panzer division and made it retreat.

[image]local://upfiles/23687/BC75751B27B445FBBA9DBC3052FED9EF.jpg[/image]



Ketza -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/8/2013 6:24:07 PM)

Turn 10 casualties - My attacks are bleeding his forces and racking up morale.

[image]local://upfiles/23687/B0AF80D541B44B62B8378CF6DC4EFDC6.jpg[/image]



Ketza -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/8/2013 6:28:35 PM)

Because his Panzers are focused and contained other parts of the front are under control just facing infantry. Because his tempo is slower then normal I can defend forward. I haven't really given him much for free. I do regret not defending Odessa I think I might have slowed him another turn along the Black sea.

[image]local://upfiles/23687/CBF3869DE86841CCBF4F970A957474B4.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/10/2013 12:24:46 AM)

I have not followed the events these last 3 or 4 months. But humm... the look of this AAR is er... déjà vu (it reminds me my second game vs 2ndACR) [8D] Looks like the Red Army is stronger then. Way too much?

About time I read the different threads [:)]



SigUp -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/10/2013 6:13:17 AM)

Uhu, it is August and there is already a Panzer Division with 10 tanks? [X(] You really are hammering him.



Ketza -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/18/2013 10:23:13 PM)

Many turns lost due to the forum issues but here goes. Nothing new I except he is breaking down for his winter defense in the rear.

Turn 16 end north

[image]local://upfiles/23687/8AE7B6C7BEA443708A6A30EEE4597EEE.jpg[/image]



Ketza -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/18/2013 10:24:23 PM)

turn 16 center I a few local offensives against his exposed infantry.

[image]local://upfiles/23687/B8D60526E6774186B57AD2E58B68A78D.jpg[/image]



Ketza -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/18/2013 10:25:31 PM)

Turning up the heat in the south

[image]local://upfiles/23687/554A5CDEACB047B89679B8E1F4E77D98.jpg[/image]



Ketza -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/18/2013 10:26:13 PM)

turn 16 south final

[image]local://upfiles/23687/59A6DE5CE85E4CFD876218CF6231F32C.jpg[/image]



Ketza -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/18/2013 10:27:02 PM)

turn 16 south panzer push - I had prepared for a 2 tier attack fro North and south against the Kiev salient that has been forming. I positioned some strong armies in the center to break his ring if it formed and then hopefully trap some Panzers in the mud. His northern pincer came dancing across the steppe but his southern pincer did not make any headway. This left his Panzers strung out and weak and Southwest front pounced.

The army in the redbox is very potent and if he tries to create a pocket he will be in a world of hurt.

[image]local://upfiles/23687/584A5BD4A8A94A859CAD744F37D64421.jpg[/image]



Ketza -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/18/2013 10:32:16 PM)

17 south end

His Panzers withdraw north but one division is left as a rear guard and its fate is sealed.

[image]local://upfiles/23687/D60C74F8259D435B8EA60B5F2B3F3143.jpg[/image]



Ketza -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/18/2013 10:33:12 PM)

17 center end - This seems like it will be the front until the winter onslaught.

[image]local://upfiles/23687/5ADF38D4F4EB4CC483380C17224FE6D1.jpg[/image]



Ketza -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/18/2013 10:33:56 PM)

17 north end - same as center. Front is stabilized

[image]local://upfiles/23687/B532D435A0C5437C983A9DB8317C419B.jpg[/image]



Disgruntled Veteran -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/18/2013 10:47:00 PM)

Looks like the axis player is shut down hard. This will be strangling kittens.



Ketza -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/19/2013 12:57:15 AM)

I have played DAK41 before. I was surprised that he grabbed the game I had thrown up but knew I would have a timely and enjoyable opponent and hoped he had learned from our last game about a year ago. Although overall his offensive has ground to a halt it is better then the last game we played.

I mainly did an AAR to show what the Soviets are capable of against a seasoned/average opponent who was not a Micheal T or a Pelton who each have an amazing grasp of the logistics of the game. An average Axis player just cannot maintain the tempo that is required to do enough damage.

I am sticking to my early statement that I will only consider this a win If I am in Berlin in 44.



821Bobo -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/19/2013 7:51:05 AM)

Its not only about logistic. He could do better even if he is not MT. DAK41 did to many mistakes and wasted Panzers for totally useless actions.

Btw. why did you run in the south? I am not blaming you. It is just I have heard here to many voices saying that w/o Lvov pocket Soviets will not run but fight.



Gabriel B. -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/19/2013 8:11:56 AM)

Up to september the axis progress was along historical lines, but he failed to get a bridgehead on the dniepr and close the kiev pocket.

and there is Leningrad.



Ketza -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/19/2013 2:55:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

Its not only about logistic. He could do better even if he is not MT. DAK41 did to many mistakes and wasted Panzers for totally useless actions.

Btw. why did you run in the south? I am not blaming you. It is just I have heard here to many voices saying that w/o Lvov pocket Soviets will not run but fight.


I didn't really run in the south. I concentrated in front of his Panzer balls and he drove forward through the path of least resistance. This was ok by me as he went where I wanted him to go. I have pretty much defended forward the whole game with some local retreats when it looked like a pocket may be forming. I did a lot of attacks and I have a treasure trove of guards units to show for it.

Knowing what the panzers can do I was careful and became more aggressive as his Panzers wore down.



loki100 -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/19/2013 3:19:43 PM)

noticed how many Guards you had, I've never managed any before the Winter counterattack. So it underpins the argument that you have put in a lot of combat to bring the Germans to a standstill



Bozo_the_Clown -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/19/2013 3:32:26 PM)

quote:

I didn't really run in the south. I concentrated in front of his Panzer balls and he drove forward through the path of least resistance. This was ok by me as he went where I wanted him to go. I have pretty much defended forward the whole game with some local retreats when it looked like a pocket may be forming. I did a lot of attacks and I have a treasure trove of guards units to show for it.


It's another example why the Axis player should always do the Lvov pocket. It doesn't matter what the Soviet player says. It's all about preserving your troops and getting some easy wins against tired and depleted German tank divisions. I've played a number of games now as SHC. It's ridiculous how easy it is to counterattack with superior numbers. I just finished turn 16 in a game. I didn't count but I probably did 10 counterattacks. All successful. I already have four or five guard units and probably some more next turn. Of course the Axis player shouldn't leave tank and mech divisions exposed. But that's easier said then done.

Do the Lvov pocket and at least you have a fighting chance as the Axis. I'm not talking about the extended Lvov pocket. Just the regular one.



Ketza -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/19/2013 3:56:33 PM)

Turn 21 start guards divisions

[image]local://upfiles/23687/295A2C11946E44CFAC7B8277C1746388.jpg[/image]



Walloc -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/19/2013 4:42:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

Its not only about logistic. He could do better even if he is not MT. DAK41 did to many mistakes and wasted Panzers for totally useless actions.

Btw. why did you run in the south? I am not blaming you. It is just I have heard here to many voices saying that w/o Lvov pocket Soviets will not run but fight.


Then u missing the point. Ketza as he also him self says, didnt just run. He at turn 3 had a line at Vinnetsa, turn 4 Zhitomir, turn 6 still a line well west of the Dneiper, at turn 8 he is still W of the Dneiper and so on. He early recognizes the fallings of his oppenent givent him the incentive not just to run to Stalio right away.

A case of what happen when a good player meets a not so good one. If it had been reverse and Ketza as Germans and Dak as russians trying the same. The end result would have been very different.

Kind regards,

Rasmus



timmyab -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/19/2013 6:17:46 PM)

Actually considering his disastrous early strategic errors, what we have here is close to what I would expect.He must be a reasonably capable tactician I would think.
The Lvov pocket is not optional for the Axis player and the Narva attack is a hopeless dead end.He may have reached an historical type position without those two major mistakes.
1941 without Axis fuel exploits feels more realistic now than it ever has done with a roughly historical type advance or be it with a giant pocket on turn one that never happened and no giant pockets in late Summer that did.Also German stacks are far too vulnerable to counterattacks now, you could possibly even lose the 1:1 rule from the game completely, it's certainly ridiculous during the blizzard.Of course what happens after turn 17 is still pure fairy land.



Bozo_the_Clown -> RE: Ketza (Soviet) vrs Dak41 (Axis) (9/19/2013 7:47:45 PM)

Ketza, very impressive list of guard units. The point I'm trying to make is that it seems way to easy to rack up victories as the Soviets. The combat system seems to be in favor of SHC. I'm getting odds way above 4:1 in almost all of my combats.

What are the lessons for the Axis? Pull back your tanks after an attack or only use them for exploitation? Pair them up with infantry? If you leave them exposed in clear terrain they get slaughtered. I've even pushed back stacks of three. It just doesn't seem right.




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