cashflow collapse (Full Version)

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Adjantis -> cashflow collapse (8/30/2013 12:21:07 AM)

Hello all, I have a big problem with the game. From one game day to another my cashflow gos from plus 18k to minus 3k. And I did nothing.

I even loaded an older game and went forward with x4 time (just waiting doing nothing). It always happens at nearly the same time. Nothing changes, the money just gos down.

The only thing i notice is, that the development of my planet (I dont have more than one yet) gos down from +27 to +21. No idea why though. Since from what i read in the Galactopedia thats just about population and luxury resources. And both dont change (well pop gos up a tiny bit).

Private Colony Revenue gos down from 170k to 126k which is the big problem. But there is just no reason for that.

Since i didnt do anything its just makes no sense. It could go down a bit but from plus 18k to minus 3k?

And it seems I have that problem every time I play. Last time i thought its just happens when i build a second colony. But it just happens it seems.



Icemania -> RE: cashflow collapse (8/30/2013 11:41:53 AM)

Adjantis, would like to help, but need more information e.g. maybe post some screenshots of key screens. When you say that are you did nothing are you playing on all manual policy settings?



Adjantis -> RE: cashflow collapse (8/30/2013 12:32:10 PM)

Most things are still automated. Havent played for some months so the only thing i put to manual was research. Everything else is automated and i just do some things by hand from time to time. No gouverment stuff though.

No idea if this screenshots will help.

pre collapse
[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69740166/DW/precollapsecolonies.jpg[/image]

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69740166/DW/precollapseempire.jpg[/image]

after
[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69740166/DW/aftercollapsecolony.jpg[/image]

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69740166/DW/aftercollapseempire.jpg[/image]



Icemania -> RE: cashflow collapse (8/30/2013 1:03:17 PM)

For some reason your colony development has dropped from 135% to 105% and then the AI has adjusted your tax rate down to compensate due to the cascade effect on happiness.

I see you have 30 cargo items after the collapse rather than 31 cargo ... what has changed?

This is interesting because in my current game I've also noticed similar changes in colony development which I don't remember seeing in past games.



Adjantis -> RE: cashflow collapse (8/30/2013 1:40:21 PM)

Its Loros Fruit. Didnt find that one before since the expansion planer shows 0.0k Loros Fruit.

That was pretty much the same problem i got in my last game. I had Loros Fruits and then lost them.

What I just dont understand is, that it destroys my whole economy. I dont have that many ships. I only have one space port and I go from plus 18k to minus 3k? That means Loros Fruit is a cargo which gives you plus 20k and is the only reason I can handle 20 ships? My cashflow never went up 20k within a second which is weird since it should have done that if Loros Fruit gets me down 20k.

My Problem is, it happens every game i start. And it just doesnt seem to be right.



Icemania -> RE: cashflow collapse (8/30/2013 2:15:24 PM)

Well the Super Luxuries are very lucrative Adjantis.

Since it's 2118 I'd suggest considering how to expand your economy more quickly, so that the effect on cashflow is reduced, or to ensure you have more supply of Super Luxuries.

There are plenty of good suggestions to help around the forum. For example, when you have the funds set 0% tax to optimise population growth, and vastly increase your revenue base etc, etc.



Adjantis -> RE: cashflow collapse (8/30/2013 2:50:58 PM)

I just started a new game and went to 2113 with x4 did nearly the same things like the last time. Instead of a cashflow of 18k I have 26k. I have the same fleet and nearly the same bases. Ok the planets will be a bit different.

But I have no Loros Fruit. That means my economy is very healthy without Loros Fruits. I never had any. So i have a cashflow difference of 30k from my old (after fruits) to my new game. Thats with one planet and warp for just some years. I just doubt its just the different planets/moons in my home system.

So the question is, why do I always have big problem in games i get Loros Fruits (no idea from where anyway, is that normal? do every players get Loros Fruit early in the game?). And always when I run out of stock all breaks down. But I never even notice to get them since there never was a big positive jump. Before I get them all is ok. While I have them all is ok. But when I lose them ... boom.

Its just looks like a bug to me. But its weird that it nearly every game (well every game I started seriously till now) happens to me. But no one else seem to have a problem.

PS: 2120 and still a stable economy. Really weird.



gingerbread -> RE: cashflow collapse (8/30/2013 7:22:33 PM)

The 135 dev lev (DL) pre crash looks as if is not as it should be and probably a bug.

My guess is that once the Loros fruit is found, the DL is recalculated and set to 105 (50+50+5) with a potential +10 if/when there is enough Loros to satisfy demand. Bug adds 30 for some reason.

BTW, review your research stations as it is very expensive to have as many as you have. 1 per field max.



Adjantis -> RE: cashflow collapse (8/30/2013 8:43:35 PM)

Thanks for the answer. Guess I will just take one of the games i got with x4 to pretty much the same level, or just start again. More fun than playing a game where i just lose 30k per year without a reason. I just hope it doesnt happen again.

Yes research stations were a bit much. :)



Jeeves -> RE: cashflow collapse (8/31/2013 12:52:07 AM)

Loros Fruit comes from the Guardians trade in early game if they like you, or delivered by independent freighters coming from them. Loros, Korobbian, or Zentabia add 30 development level automatically and instantly when in stock, and take it away when you have no more in stock, such as when your idiot civilians sell all your stock to another empire. What you are experiencing is not a bug at all, just working as designed...

Lonnie Courtney Clay



Shark7 -> RE: cashflow collapse (8/31/2013 1:45:00 AM)

One thing I've learned is that (especially early game) you need to keep on top of your mines. That is, go into the galaxy planner, look at what is showing you have zero stock of, and then queue constructors to build mines on planets with those resources.

Keeping on top of your resources will really help keep the economy collapse from happening.



Icemania -> RE: cashflow collapse (8/31/2013 3:02:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adjantis

I just started a new game and went to 2113 with x4 did nearly the same things like the last time. Instead of a cashflow of 18k I have 26k. I have the same fleet and nearly the same bases. Ok the planets will be a bit different.

But I have no Loros Fruit. That means my economy is very healthy without Loros Fruits. I never had any. So i have a cashflow difference of 30k from my old (after fruits) to my new game. Thats with one planet and warp for just some years. I just doubt its just the different planets/moons in my home system.

So the question is, why do I always have big problem in games i get Loros Fruits (no idea from where anyway, is that normal? do every players get Loros Fruit early in the game?). And always when I run out of stock all breaks down. But I never even notice to get them since there never was a big positive jump. Before I get them all is ok. While I have them all is ok. But when I lose them ... boom.

Its just looks like a bug to me. But its weird that it nearly every game (well every game I started seriously till now) happens to me. But no one else seem to have a problem.

PS: 2120 and still a stable economy. Really weird.

Early game it's luck of the draw. Again I think the right question you need to ask is how to expand faster. In the time frames you have quoted I'll have colonised a couple of Super Luxuries and well before that have a source for everything else. I'd also have used 0% tax to increase the population leading to much higher colony income etc. Hence why it's not really a problem, it just shows how important Super Luxuries are.





Adjantis -> RE: cashflow collapse (9/1/2013 4:50:47 PM)

Thanks for all the answers.

Sounds like it isnt a bug. But the weird thing about is, that in 3 games now, were i didnt get Loros fruit my economy is healthy. In 4 games where I got them the economy is doomed. Even if it isnt a bug, it just doesnt sound like it is working as intended. In my opinion the Lorus fruit should be a nice bonus while it last. But in my experience its no bonus at all but a bad thing to have.

So the answer is to dont play nice with the guardians.



garfield666 -> RE: cashflow collapse (9/1/2013 8:45:26 PM)

it is a bonus, your mistake was to build economy around it.



mSterian -> RE: cashflow collapse (9/2/2013 9:24:37 AM)

You get increased income from the loros fruits, then you start upping your maintenance costs to the point that if you lose loros fruits, you start losing money.

You should do something useful with the increased income while it lasts. If you build ships... use them for something profitable. If you build ships that just stand around, it's not useful and it's normal that you start losing income when you run out of loros fruits.

If you don't intend to go to war and conquer stuff.. don't build ships and troops. Use that extra income from loros fruits for crash research projects and colony ships. Also, build mining stations only if you need them.If you're not doing trade with any empire, having multiple mines of the same resource is wasteful.



Icemania -> RE: cashflow collapse (9/2/2013 12:41:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Adjantis

Thanks for all the answers.

Sounds like it isnt a bug. But the weird thing about is, that in 3 games now, were i didnt get Loros fruit my economy is healthy. In 4 games where I got them the economy is doomed. Even if it isnt a bug, it just doesnt sound like it is working as intended. In my opinion the Lorus fruit should be a nice bonus while it last. But in my experience its no bonus at all but a bad thing to have.

So the answer is to dont play nice with the guardians.

Super Luxuries are great to have ... you just need to ensure you have permanent supplies i.e. explore and mine/colonise Super Luxuries as a priority.



Adjantis -> RE: cashflow collapse (9/2/2013 7:44:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: garfield666

it is a bonus, your mistake was to build economy around it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mSterian

You get increased income from the loros fruits, then you start upping your maintenance costs to the point that if you lose loros fruits, you start losing money.


I really wish that would be the problem (and the Loros Fruit might be a bonus. But in no game I played, it was a cashflow bonus at all). But it isnt. I dont build my economy around the money of Loros Fruit. I would never do that after I had such bad problems with Loros fruits in former games.

And as I wrote, I tested it. Every game without Loros Fruit and the same fleet and bases, is a game where i am at plus 30k cashflow. I dont just write here since I have a bad economy in one game. Its because its the same problem every time with Loros Fruit.


PS: you can see my maintance costs on the SS. Do you really think 7k maintance for military is a lot? And yes i might have too many research stations. But thats what? 3k?



gingerbread -> RE: cashflow collapse (9/2/2013 9:10:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Adjantis


PS: you can see my maintance costs on the SS. Do you really think 7k maintance for military is a lot? And yes i might have too many research stations. But thats what? 3k?


7k navy mil is OK, I guess, 8k ground is a lot.

Your 7(!) res costs 8k, so cutting down to 3 res would save 4-5.

I prefer res stations with 1 lab (disable auto refit), then I make the home world space port fill up to res capacity.



Adjantis -> RE: cashflow collapse (9/3/2013 9:17:12 PM)

Thanks for the tips. I havent played for a year so there is a lot i can do better for sure.

But I think I know what the problem is now. The bad things happen when you start with Loros Fruit. I found an old savegame of the above game. And I had the Loros Fruit from day one (checked an older game where I had the same problem and found Loros Fruit at day one there too).

Still no very high cashflow at the beginning. Pretty normal one, 7k or so. So i guess its a "bug" witch happens when you start with Loros Fruit. Maybe the game calculates your start cashflow with a max or something like that. So if you got Loros Fruit at the beginning, your starting cashflow is a high minus one but gets to positive numbers with the Loros Fruit. The problem is, unlike other games where you have normal resources, the Loros Fruit will go to zero at one point of your game. And thats where everything gos wrong.



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