RE: Pricing Suggestion (Full Version)

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Primarchx -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 4:21:45 PM)

Got the boxed version on the way!



NefariousKoel -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 4:29:17 PM)

While I'm not fond of the pricing situation, my biggest concern is whether Command will see another full-priced re-release in the future.

Why pay a "premium" price now if we'll have to do it all over again in two or three years, and lose patch support for this one once a multiplayer version is put out? It doesn't happen for all titles but has happened enough, here, to place this doubt in my mind. If we decide to pay $80 for this, how do we know that it won't be replaced by a newer version on down the road?



Alchenar -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 4:32:33 PM)

It's a really tough one. £60 is a big ask. It's as much as I paid for Command Ops: Battles from the Bulge. But Command Ops had a demo I'd spent 10-ish hours getting hooked on before taking the plunge.

When you are Rockstar games and you are selling GTA V and everyone on the planet and their mother is going to buy it because you have a track record of excellence then you can ask me to drop £60 blind on your game. If you are coming out of nowhere then you are going to have to let me see the thing running on my screen before you can make the same ask of me.

e: It's also no good telling me 'I'm sure all true wargame fans will get their money's worth out of this, take my word for it' because
a) you are paid to say this and would say it even if you didn't believe it
b) you sell Pride of Nations



Xornox -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 4:38:22 PM)

The price was surprisingly high. I have very many Matrix games but I will definetely skip this one. I should see exceptional reviews before I can invest this kind of amount to the game. What a pity...



wodin -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 4:45:11 PM)

No idea why people are surprised at the price..it's been hinted at for a while it will be premium title.



thewood1 -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 4:48:52 PM)

Finally ran two scenarios...worth the price. Now to go build a new version of Dawn Patrol.



Alchenar -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 4:50:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

No idea why people are surprised at the price..it's been hinted at for a while it will be premium title.


It's the whole 'aaaargh, why put all the effort into building an accessible product if you are instantly going to slap an inaccessible price tag on it' factor.



thewood1 -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 4:57:13 PM)

Is it really inaccessible?



Xornox -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 5:03:14 PM)

It is totally new game. In the case of other premium priced games I knew that I will get back something extraordinary. I am not sure now. Demo is not available and there are no reliable reviews. The scope of the game is also such that I would like to try it before buying.

I have already once made a mistake with Matrix. There was not demo available for the Field of glory. I was thinking that I like it because I am huge fan of historical war games but eventually game mechanics were too simple for me.

There should be always demo available for this kind of niche games.



fuf -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 5:05:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Is it really inaccessible?


Yes, of course it is. Buying a game like this is a risk, and no amount of "trust me you'll love it" is going to change that. The price is too high for the vast majority of people (I'm even tempted to say "any rational person") to take the risk.



Brausepaul -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 5:08:40 PM)

Seems like this game needs a few AARs or good Let's play videos.



Hertston -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 5:09:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Dang Erik, getting steep on these prices.[8|] I am buying it, but mercy. Only reason I am willing to take the risk is I know Matrix stands behind their products with out standing support long after a game is released. I have yet to get burned by Matrix with a bad product. But it is getting hard to justify the expense to the wife, I mean the boss.


What he said. I'll take the chance on this (and it is a chance - no demo, no track-record, no idea how good/bad/indifferent the AI is in an SP only game) as I am a genre-fan but the 'price' means a definite 'no' to ACW 2, World in Flames or Pandora, all of which I was likely to buy.

I also share the suspicion an MP enabled 'Admirals Edition' will come along at some point for which we'll be asked to fork out full whack again, with maybe only the usual pathetic Matrix 'existing owner' discount - remember Crown of Glory folks? [:(]



Kipper -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 5:21:48 PM)

To be honest I don't understand the economics or the data behind these decisions, I am not and never was in the publishing business. I only hope that the decision is right vis a vis making the devs optimum money in the mid and long term.



gexmex -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 5:30:06 PM)

Hands on videos, AARs, and dev diaries are great at garnering my interest and answering some questions. At the same time though, screenshots and vids of other people playing only get me so far, especially with an $80 price-point. Being able explore even just the tutorial of the game to get my feet wet and kick the tires a little bit would go a long way to improving my chances of purchasing. Maybe this is a bit over dramatic, but you would never purchase a car without a test drive. While it's a car vs a computer game I feel like the analogy still applies. This is a Cadillac of the game world. Let me take it for a spin before committing.



thewood1 -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 5:38:16 PM)

inaccessible is never being able to afford something. So a game that is only $20-$30 above the average is hardly inaccessible. A Maybach is inaccessible because no matter how long you save, it is still unaffordable.

I have complete empathy with people not liking the price. But hyperbole and over-reaction only drowns out valid points and opinions.



tevans6220 -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 5:44:04 PM)

Guess I'll pass on this one. You've got to be kidding on price. I only paid $59.99 for Rome TW 2 which is a AAA title from a well established franchise. With prices like these the so called "niche" wargaming community is going to get even more niche. Oh well. Back to Harpoon for me. Good luck with selling a game for that price in a bad economy.



Nemo84 -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 6:07:46 PM)

77.5 euro??? It's utterly ridiculous. I got Rome II for 45 euro, I can buy GTA V for 65 euro, both AAA titles with much higher production values than this one.

No wonder this is a "niche" genre, with prices like this you're basically only selling to an ever-dwindling group of old-time hardcore wargamers with no hope of ever attracting new blood. Yet another good developer who'll never be a big success because they're held back by an utterly outdated business model.



kvob -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 6:21:58 PM)

Price is far too high. I'm out.



EagleMountainDK -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 6:25:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Djoller

I have just payed the equivalent of USD 106,37 incl taxes in Denmark. Anyone higher?

PS. If the game is properly supported, I dont mind paying a little extra,


Auch, then I will have to wait. Damn taxes.... [:@][:(]



Terminus -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 6:33:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cougar_DK


quote:

ORIGINAL: Djoller

I have just payed the equivalent of USD 106,37 incl taxes in Denmark. Anyone higher?

PS. If the game is properly supported, I dont mind paying a little extra,


Auch, then I will have to wait. Damn taxes.... [:@][:(]



Not the taxman's fault that this game has the price it does. I'm also out unless and until it goes on sale.



midnight_mangler -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 6:35:15 PM)

Price is high but this software is quality. This is a gift that will keep on giving. Bought.



Terminus -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 6:40:13 PM)

This is no attack on the product; I have no idea how good it is, obviously. Not buying it because I can't currently afford it.



EagleMountainDK -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 6:42:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cougar_DK


quote:

ORIGINAL: Djoller

I have just payed the equivalent of USD 106,37 incl taxes in Denmark. Anyone higher?

PS. If the game is properly supported, I dont mind paying a little extra,


Auch, then I will have to wait. Damn taxes.... [:@][:(]



Not the taxman's fault that this game has the price it does. I'm also out unless and until it goes on sale.



Or we need a "proxy" to give us an address in a country not having 25% taxes. I will gladly pay $79, but not $101.



EagleMountainDK -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 6:43:14 PM)

I'm sure its quality since the people behind is naval nerds by heart. I have played a lot of their H3 stuff in the old days. Good stuff!



Wolfe1759 -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 6:45:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Djoller

I have just payed the equivalent of USD 106,37 incl taxes in Denmark. Anyone higher?

PS. If the game is properly supported, I dont mind paying a little extra,


Beats me, just.

Here in the UK it is the equivalent of $103.77 download and $122.99 (+ postage) boxed.

I think I'll pass on this one.



NefariousKoel -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 7:42:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Dang Erik, getting steep on these prices.[8|] I am buying it, but mercy. Only reason I am willing to take the risk is I know Matrix stands behind their products with out standing support long after a game is released. I have yet to get burned by Matrix with a bad product. But it is getting hard to justify the expense to the wife, I mean the boss.


What he said. I'll take the chance on this (and it is a chance - no demo, no track-record, no idea how good/bad/indifferent the AI is in an SP only game) as I am a genre-fan but the 'price' means a definite 'no' to ACW 2, World in Flames or Pandora, all of which I was likely to buy.

I also share the suspicion an MP enabled 'Admirals Edition' will come along at some point for which we'll be asked to fork out full whack again, with maybe only the usual pathetic Matrix 'existing owner' discount - remember Crown of Glory folks? [:(]


.. amongst others.

The threat of such a re-release of these premium games, at full price, should be a big concern. When I see some future additional feature(s) mentioned, it's now easy to believe that this will be the case, and updates will be discontinued for this version if that happens.

If there were some kind of guarantee that update support will continue for so-called "Premium" games for a good long time - preferably a hard number - then perhaps such a concern could be put to rest. But promises are hard to keep.

I'd rather see some passable expansion pricing for future additions, but with some of the past re-releases, I fully expect this to happen once again with this title.

It's a bit painful talking about having lost some faith in Matrix Game's marketing scheme, after being a regular customer for so long, but that's the turn it has taken for me. Higher prices than nearly everyone else and fairly regular re-releases at full price have dampened my purchasing habits here.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 7:48:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel
While I'm not fond of the pricing situation, my biggest concern is whether Command will see another full-priced re-release in the future.

Why pay a "premium" price now if we'll have to do it all over again in two or three years, and lose patch support for this one once a multiplayer version is put out? It doesn't happen for all titles but has happened enough, here, to place this doubt in my mind. If we decide to pay $80 for this, how do we know that it won't be replaced by a newer version on down the road?


No plans for that. I saw this discussion get started on the Wargamer and I'm not sure where the concern originates, but we won't make anyone buy the full game twice to get multiplayer. The truth is we simply don't have any information on multiplayer to share at this time. We are looking to support this release fully and it is a single player release, so this part of the discussion is really about a different hypothetical future release.

When have we asked a customer to purchase a game twice at the full price just to get multiplayer? If a product gets two or three years of free updates and it is a great game, at that point if there is a sequel, would you feel cheated?

Regards,

- Erik




thewood1 -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 7:48:41 PM)

From a price-standpoint, its stands on its own. Buy it or don't based on what it is. Sitting around wondering if they are going to add features and fretting over it makes little sense to me.

If they support the product, I'll support them.



Mabuse -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 7:51:03 PM)

For Germany (19% tax) it's ~76€ (~$103). Would be nice if one could download the manual separately for reading it while loading the 2,5gb.

Regarding price:
I personally think that most people complaining about the price are unable to easily afford it. I know that there is a big range of personal
circumstances where one can't easily bring up the money but would really like to play the game. I understand fully that this is an
unpleasant situation.

To those that (maybe with saving up some money) are able afford the game but are complaining and wishing it would cost 30/40/50 dollar,
I say:
1) This is not an so called "App" where you have fun for one hour or two, this is a complex software that models weapons and sensors (etc)
in detail. The price decline for some areas on the software market (especially for mobile) is questionable and probably won't result in
higher quality.

2) More modern business models were mentioned. What does that mean? Financing with advertising? Selling your personal data and usage
profiles? Is it that what you want?

3) If business is the main reason for doing something, like developing a game, then people will most probably look for what can make it
more attractive to the mass. And at this point it starts to get worse. Often the game will be simplified. Think about what would happen
to a simulation like this. And it's not an insult to call a game a "niche product". I prefer games that are made by heart and are willing to
reward this with paying above-average prices.

4) I personally am software developer and know that it is hard work to get a complex system done. This work deserves appropriate rewarding.

5) In terms of supply and demand, the more people want to have games like this and the less games like this are on the market, the higher
the price will be. As there is nothing that can be compared to CMANO, except Harpoon, but this is technically not in the present age,
I expected the price to be the highest of all games available on matrix games.

Just some thoughts from my side.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Pricing Suggestion (9/24/2013 7:52:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alchenar
It's a really tough one. £60 is a big ask. It's as much as I paid for Command Ops: Battles from the Bulge. But Command Ops had a demo I'd spent 10-ish hours getting hooked on before taking the plunge.


Regarding demos, you may want to read through this thread:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3374703&mpage=1&key=demo�

quote:

When you are Rockstar games and you are selling GTA V and everyone on the planet and their mother is going to buy it because you have a track record of excellence then you can ask me to drop £60 blind on your game. If you are coming out of nowhere then you are going to have to let me see the thing running on my screen before you can make the same ask of me.


I respect that this is a decision each person has to make for themselves, but comparing niche wargames to GTA V is really a very flawed comparison in many, many ways.

quote:

e: It's also no good telling me 'I'm sure all true wargame fans will get their money's worth out of this, take my word for it' because
a) you are paid to say this and would say it even if you didn't believe it
b) you sell Pride of Nations


I don't really expect anyone to take it on faith, but I am saying what I really believe based on playing the game. I understand that my point of view is seen as biased by default. Hopefully some reviews from testers, other sites and customers as well as the various videos and AARs will help you determine if I'm on the level or not.

Regards,

- Erik




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