Float Planes (Full Version)

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rms1pa -> Float Planes (9/5/2013 10:24:41 PM)

Float planes seem to be a bit of a discussion point lately.

from the AFB view.

so here are a couple or three, four ,,,, thoughts on them from my VAST experience (hork)

they will not save the universe as we know it.

they will sometimes save your butt.

need coverage (ASW/SEARCH/CAP somewhere you don't have an airfield. they can do this. sling an AVP/AVD or 2 disbanded at a dot island and good to go.(had 10 pilots train to 70 AIR from flying CAP at Funafuti,one made ACE)

Nell/Betties reaching out of escort range? those aviation capable AVs while pricy will fly them as cap.

heck they will even damage/ sink an AKL or two for you. umm CA Myoko not so much.(six destroyed by flak).

so have some fun with the little flutterbyes. its not like they are REAL Aircraft (ARRRGH)

i would love to see some JFB thoughts/experiences with them.

rms/pa



Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: Float Planes (9/5/2013 11:29:14 PM)

Float planes are integral to the IJN naval doctrine,
like them or not, you will have to learn how to play with them; they are plentiful and you will have them in AVs, CS, AMCa, CMs!, submarines!, in addition to the regular cruisers/ BBs.
Not to mention that there are very few flying boats, and thereby most search missions will have to be done be FP

I really like the long range of E13A1 "Jakes" and I have increased factories to 60 factories per day. EDIT month
F1M2 "Pete" can be used as a poor man's CAP against non escorted flights early war. GV=6 and manouver=36 so it can at least reduce bombing accuracy... their range sucks, so eventually they become trainers
The old ones E8N2 Dave and E7K2 Alf are still useful for training

Then Rufe float fighter; as someone mentioned, they come a bit too late (when the offensive phase is over) and their performance is not that great; but little is better than nothing



PaxMondo -> RE: Float Planes (9/6/2013 1:33:07 AM)

I would disagree a bit here. Clearly the IJN beleived in them far more than most other Navy's of the era. They invested heavily in R&D on them.

They have their uses as well as limitations.



Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: Float Planes (9/6/2013 2:26:53 AM)

Lots of limitations
Major one is the no-flight in poor weather. But I can see the issue mainly when they are based on "ships"; not so when on "bases"



Commander Stormwolf -> RE: Float Planes (9/6/2013 3:36:34 AM)


float planes were a vital component of the Japanese aviation corps during ww2

although the performance was below their potential

a) float fighter zero (Rufe) was available too late for the offensive phase
b) float searchplanes (jake / paul) were not used correctly in the major carrier battles
c) Emily was produced in small numbers, the performance of a B-24 with unparalleled versatility,
probably the single biggest error in Japanese production as Japanese 2E were mere cannon fodder
for allied fighters and they wasted their elite crews in cigars

interestingly enough, Mavis and PBY were both conceived as a way of delivering torpedoes against
battleships (experiments with Mavis were even conducted carrying type 93 long lances)



Lokasenna -> RE: Float Planes (9/6/2013 3:40:44 AM)

Switching a lot of FP units to Jakes and using them for ASW air search is fundamental, I think.



SenToku -> RE: Float Planes (9/6/2013 5:20:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Switching a lot of FP units to Jakes and using them for ASW air search is fundamental, I think.


Agreed, always do this too.

I only produce Jakes and Glens in the begining and E14Y production will stop as soon as engines in pool run out. I do switch from Jake to Norm when it comes available. Range is 4 hex better and service rating doesn't really matter with patrol planes. Also interested to learn more about radar equiped Jake, the E13A1b. Any use? I could see it doing late war night patrols.



Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: Float Planes (9/6/2013 5:46:22 AM)

I have half of my FP training ASW... eventually I will have enough to do proper ASW/ Search



btbw -> RE: Float Planes (9/6/2013 7:01:36 AM)

1. Pete - very useful in first days of war as shipborne flot fighter, just add it to allships like BB, CA, AV, CS and set CAP with range 0. Very good to lower bombing ability of unescorted Allied LBA (also have good scoring on damnit wildebeest/swordfish).
2. All non-Jake searchplanes on ships going to pool (when you built enough Jakes) and used for train squadrons (which train NavS, ASW, 1 squad - recon).
3. Industry produce Jakes (all war) and Glen (for subs and train pool, till engine pool end).
4. Jake used as
Search plane (NavS on ships and around vital base with possible sub presence)
Recon plane (one of ship can have squad with high recon and provide additional info about base in turn before naval bombardment or port atack via Kates)
ASW -all vital bases have squad equipped with Jakes and searching dark hexes which used by shipping. Ships also have ASW search in addition to NavS.

Rufe good for point-blank CAP flying from AV-CS during amphibious assault. Using squads with it for initial training fighter pilots (Escort). Also some squads can be converted into A6M5.

Thinking about AF0 strike teams which content AV or air supp and pack of Jake+Rufe. It can surprise enemy shipping if not covered by CAP (or it destroyed by sweeps before).



GreyJoy -> RE: Float Planes (9/6/2013 8:16:21 AM)

Not only I believe in them (as the IJN did), but I do find them absolutely a vital part of my war machine.

I even invested in R&D the Paul and used it in conjuction with the Jake. Paul has an extended range of 15! Try to think how much advantage you get in a mid-ocean CV engagement for example, when your search capabilities are doubled the one of your opponent!

In fact I also R&D the Judy-C (recon) on CVs, so to have my eyes well beyond the 15 hexes range[;)]

However Jakes can be absolutely vital also in the ASW role. Placing them on the route of your convoys and use them to spot subs... they are good, reliable, cheap and easy to repair.




SenToku -> RE: Float Planes (9/6/2013 1:18:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Not only I believe in them (as the IJN did), but I do find them absolutely a vital part of my war machine.

I even invested in R&D the Paul and used it in conjuction with the Jake. Paul has an extended range of 15! Try to think how much advantage you get in a mid-ocean CV engagement for example, when your search capabilities are doubled the one of your opponent!

In fact I also R&D the Judy-C (recon) on CVs, so to have my eyes well beyond the 15 hexes range[;)]

However Jakes can be absolutely vital also in the ASW role. Placing them on the route of your convoys and use them to spot subs... they are good, reliable, cheap and easy to repair.




Isn't all naval search done with clean range? If so, E16A1 Paul only has range of 5 (it can do bombing mission all the way to 15). E15K1 Norm has clean range of 12, which is why I replace the Jake with it.

I agree with carrier borne recon planes, those are good. If you really want to see far, the choice is C6N1 -"No Grumman can catch us!"- Myrt. Drop tank range of 23, radar and speed which reduces intercepts.



PaxMondo -> RE: Float Planes (9/6/2013 2:50:42 PM)

Think GJ confused Paul and Norm above ... Norm is a nice a/c when you get it. Good range for a 1E.



rms1pa -> RE: Float Planes (9/6/2013 3:06:44 PM)

thanks everyone,

one thing i forgot for the AFBs, the float plane squadrons are your ONLY source to TRAIN USN fighter
pilots , training Sweep. early war.

rms/pa




GreyJoy -> RE: Float Planes (9/6/2013 4:06:45 PM)

Sorry I meant Norm[:(]



Lokasenna -> RE: Float Planes (9/6/2013 5:38:59 PM)

I use the Jakes for Search almost exclusively rather than training them in ASW also, as I don't expect 60kg bombs to do much/anything to a sub. A spotted sub is almost as good as a dead sub, as far as the game engine is concerned. I'll use something with a bigger bomb load (or depth charges) to actually kill them. I prefer to put naval bombing units on ASW training, and it's always useful to be able to put ASW-trained pilots onto CVs to help protect them as well.



Xargun -> RE: Float Planes (9/6/2013 7:07:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I use the Jakes for Search almost exclusively rather than training them in ASW also, as I don't expect 60kg bombs to do much/anything to a sub. A spotted sub is almost as good as a dead sub, as far as the game engine is concerned. I'll use something with a bigger bomb load (or depth charges) to actually kill them. I prefer to put naval bombing units on ASW training, and it's always useful to be able to put ASW-trained pilots onto CVs to help protect them as well.


I'm not sure naval search detects subs. Isn't that part of ASW ?

As mentioned briefly by someone - the Glenns are awesome. I love the ability of sitting subs 20 hexes from a friendly base and having aerial search ability. Now they don't see everything but 2 or 3 of them together will spot most things approaching. Float plane equipped subs are my best early warning system.



Quixote -> RE: Float Planes (9/7/2013 12:00:39 AM)

quote:

I'm not sure naval search detects subs. Isn't that part of ASW ?


Planes on naval search can (and will) detect subs, they will just be less likely to attack them then planes assigned to ASW.



PaxMondo -> RE: Float Planes (9/7/2013 12:54:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Quixote

quote:

I'm not sure naval search detects subs. Isn't that part of ASW ?


Planes on naval search can (and will) detect subs, they will just be less likely to attack them then planes assigned to ASW.

+1



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